I keep finding, over and over again, scathing references to things I love - music, books, cars, films. This thread idea came from yet another comment about the Morris Marina being just about the most hideous and useless car ever built. I used to have one of those and it drove like a Starsky & Hutch car. It was fucking great. It used to roll and squeal on corners, or on the straight for that matter, but it was fast, and even nippy. But it's the standard joke when it comes to bad British car design. Apparently.
The 70s right? "The Decade That Taste Forgot." Don't be daft. It was the decade that did whatever it fucking wanted, without any sign of self-awareness. It produced more leaps in musical progress than any decade in history. Everything was invented in the 70s, apart from a couple of things in the 60s. Instead of taking the piss out of the 70s we should be saying, how can we get back there? Look, it's nearly 2005 now and what has happened in the first half of this decade so far? Naff all, as Porridge would probably put it. The 70s was The Decade That Boredom Forgot, that's what it was. Fuck knows what they're going to call this decade.
What else? Oh yeah, I was reading a thread about Led Zeppelin's Coda album of outtakes and live stuff. It's got a track on it called Bonzo's Montreaux which is basically a drum solo, but groovy as fuck and easily the best track on the album, IMHO. In other people's honest opinion on that thread... "The album's quite good, but you'll HATE Bonzo's Montreaux. What a load of shite that track is!" Repeated by others over several pages. Duh.
My favourite author is Sven Hassel FFS. The most ridiculed author in history, near enough. And there's loads more examples, but...
What do you see criticised all the time even though you love it?
Does it bother you in the slightest? Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Salad
The band who had the piss taken out of them more than any other in the mid 90s. The reason for this seems to be that their singer, Marijne van der Vlugt, used to be a VJ on MTV Europe, and before that a model. Someone at NME decided that this made her a figure unworthy to be succesful in the field of music, and made their point clear upon the release of each new single, album and gig review. This came despite it being clear that Salad were more innovative and interesting than the majority of female-fronted bands of the time (Sleeper, Echobelly, etc).
Salad pressed on regardless until they finally split in 1998. I often wonder what would have become of the band, had they stayed together.
The most annoying thing is that before her MTV career, Marijne was already in the band. In fact, she got the VJ job when delivering a copy of her demo to MTV studios.
Fans of the band (and I know there are still a few) will be interested to hear Marijne's new band, *Cowboy Racer.
Star Wars Episode III : Revenge of the Sith
You know the story.
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
My favorite movie of all time is “Mallrats,” which is denigrated even by its creator, the fabulous Kevin Smith.
Do I feel bad about it? I dunno, it makes me feel like I must be more sophomoric than geek fan-boy film directors, which is pretty sad. Posted by ben (Member # 13) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: The band who had the piss taken out of them more than any other in the mid 90s. The reason for this seems to be that their singer, Marijne van der Vlugt, used to be a VJ on MTV Europe, and before that a model. Someone at NME decided that this made her a figure unworthy to be succesful in the field of music, and made their point clear upon the release of each new single, album and gig review. [...] The most annoying thing is that before her MTV career, Marijne was already in the band. In fact, she got the VJ job when delivering a copy of her demo to MTV studios.
In fairness, Misc, I used to watch a lot of MTV in the early-to-mid-1990s and derision for Marijne was a perfectly understandable phenomenon. In a gallery of talentless fulkwints, (Ray Cokes, Davina McCall, VJ Ingo) her gagtastic blandness really was something to behold.
quote:This came despite it being clear that Salad were more innovative and interesting than the majority of female-fronted bands of the time (Sleeper, Echobelly, etc).
Er...
*kof* Posted by ally (Member # 600) on :
I thought the '80's were the decade that taste forgot?
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
I have been holding back from this thread because I know nobody can beat me.
For starters
have you had enough... or do you want some more
Posted by Physic (Member # 195) on :
I'll see your Belinda Carlisle and raise you a (from my youth admittedly) Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
A moderately strong hand, although I still own four Belinda Carlisle albums that I bought between 1999 and 2001. Only one thing can really trump Johnny Hates Jazz, however...
Curiosity Killed the Cat.
(I think the band "Black" would also be a contender. Hue and Cry = Full House.)
Posted by Bailey (Member # 261) on :
Don't worry Kovacs, I have 2 Deacon Blue cds, one Belinda Carlisle (although this might be hiding in my mum's collection) and a stack of Fleetwood Mac. I don't find Fleetwood Mac to be too ridiculed apart from when there are threads asking what a certain song is and someone pops up to say "it's The Chain by Fleetwood Mac!". I also have a Del Amitri cd. Oh and I loved those Alexander McCall Smith books which Octavia referred to in embarrasment on another thread.
Posted by Neurotic Cat (Member # 756) on :
Ooh I bought a Salad cd single years ago 'motorcycle to heaven'. But I never really heard anything else from them after that, so didnt really think to explore albums.
I used to get ridiculed for being a Wolverhampton Wanderers fan when I lived there. But I loved going to the games. I miss saturday afternoons in the fresh air and watching wolves. They weren't ever a supremely confident team but it was fun to see them doing well in the first division and when they did go up to the prem; although it was depressing to see them trounced week in week out but it was worth it to see the likes of Henry, Van Nistelroy, etc.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
Very recently, like three months ago recently, I bought this...
There's no real reason or excuse for it. I didn't buy it drunk, or for my mother, or anything. I bought it for me to listen to. And I listen to it a lot (not when anyone else is around though). I don't know what to say. I find it very charming, soothing and quite uplifting. It makes me happy, and it's especially pleasant after 90 minutes or so of death metal, a bit like the bizarre euphoria that comes afer an hours vomiting.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
I bought this last month:
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy: I bought this last month:
When has anyone, ever slagged off Fairport Convention, and especially Liege And Lief? Give me their names and I will kill them, tomorrow. It's got Matty Groves on it FFS.
Sorry about that. Deep breath.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote: When has anyone, ever slagged off Fairport Convention, and especially Liege And Lief? Give me their names and I will kill them, tomorrow. It's got Matty Groves on it FFS.
Sorry about that. Deep breath.
I have heard it used to describe the taste of 70s hippies.
Oh, and not in a good way.
[ 01.12.2004, 05:03: Message edited by: Roy ]
Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy: I bought this last month:
My Uncle Pete has played Session guitar for them on quite a few occasions apparently...
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote: My Uncle Pete has played Session guitar for them on quite a few occasions apparently...
Can I swap uncles? I have a vicar and an architect. You can choose, or even have both.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
Yeah, Enya actually is surprisingly pleasurable in my experience. I own her first two albums on "cassette" (anyone remember them) so it's not quite the commitment to unfashion that Thorn has shown.
I had a culture-slap this morning when, after a few days of thinking "gosh, that Katie Melua sounds lovely doesn't she" and singing Closest Thing to Crazy winsomely to myself, I decided to check her out on Handbag's music board and discovered that apart from a fulsome vote of confidence ("Buy It") from forum beauty "Hey Angelina" in January 2004, everyone there was rubbishing the song, the album and the artist over a multiple-page thread. I am officially much naffer than Handbag Music girls. Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy:
quote: My Uncle Pete has played Session guitar for them on quite a few occasions apparently...
Can I swap uncles? I have a vicar and an architect. You can choose, or even have both.
But what would you do if you needed to build a church?
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
I've just spent 20 minutes sifting through pictures of Enya on google image search trying to decide whether or not I'd fuck her. My first reaction was "definitely, yes" but then she didn't look so good in some of the other photos. A bit worn, somehow. Also I started to consider what manner of encounter it would be. I imagine it'd be very gentle, almost peaceful. I think I would quite like that, although I suspect it may seem a bit too close to making love to your own mother. So Enya gets a "maybe" from me.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Also I started to consider what manner of encounter it would be. I imagine it'd be very gentle, almost peaceful.
You can find out if you're the lucky winner of Mind, Body and Spirit Magazine's weekly competition. Complete the following phrase in ten words or less to be in with a chance of spending 24 hours with Enya at a health spa in mystical Norway, surrounded by candles, essential oils and a range of gigantic love aids.
I would make Enya's 'Orinoco' Flow by... Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
TMO's proper funny this morning. Me happy.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
I'd like to see Tinita Tikawhatever have a fight with Neneh Cherry. Enya could referee.
Posted by Abby (Member # 582) on :
I have loads of Queen tapes. When helping my brother move house recently I was delighted to find the van we hired had a tape player so I could listen to them all. Martin started threatening to throw them out the window somewhere around Salisbury. Posted by saltrock (Member # 622) on :
Tinita Tiki-arum was so depressing.
I think my worst thing that I own and listen to on a semi-regular basis is the Best of De La Soul. Closely followed by the Best of Soul II Soul. They were in the cheapy basket in Tesco, ok?
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
O come on! Neneh Cherry's "Buffalo Stance" is not embarrassing. You knowa'amean?
I had a similarly queasy, quasi-erotic enagagement with Belinda Carlisle as I toured pix of her for this thread. Her late 80s publicity images are, of course, tanned babehood, waves of heavy hair and scoops of cleavage. Shots from more recent gigs though -- at dubious venues like Canary Wharf, or on best-of/rest-of tours with Heaven 17 -- she looks like someone's once-pretty mum. It prompted confusing thoughts, because for me she's far and forever removed from my real life anyway (I have never seen her live) and as far as her connection to me goes, she might as well be young and 80s... that is, she only exists as a celebrity in some mythic realm of images for me anyway, so for me, there is no reason why "Belinda Carlisle", the icon, has to age. "Belinda Carlisle", for me, is just a collection of mediated pix, rather than a real person, so am I justified in filtering out and ignoring her mumsier recent stage, and treating that as the "truth"? That, is, if someone asked me if I wanted to shag Belinda Carlisle, could I say "yes, selectively"?
Don't worry I sound like a wanker even to myself, typing all this.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: "Belinda Carlisle", for me, is just a collection of mediated pix, rather than a real person, so am I justified in filtering out and ignoring her mumsier recent stage, and treating that as the "truth"? That, is, if someone asked me if I wanted to shag Belinda Carlisle, could I say "yes, selectively"?
Don't worry I sound like a wanker even to myself, typing all this.
LOL - Kovacs doesn't consider Belinda Carlisle's recent existence to be canon.
Posted by Boy Racer (Member # 498) on :
quote:Originally posted by saltrock: I think my worst thing that I own and listen to on a semi-regular basis is the Best of De La Soul. Closely followed by the Best of Soul II Soul. They were in the cheapy basket in Tesco, ok?
How are these bad exactly? Apart from them being 'best of's instead of Three Feet High & Rising and Club Classics Vol 1?
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: LOL - Kovacs doesn't consider Belinda Carlisle's recent existence to be canon.
You're right... that is what I'm doing, isn't it. Like those purists who are all for me, "Star Wars" is the ORIGINAL TRILOGY, no more, no less
But as I have never had any personal connection with the real life of the real person Belinda Carlisle, and as she's only ever been "Belinda Carlisle" for me, the mediated star persona constructed through what albums, publicity pics and videos I've encountered, she is a series of media texts for me just like Star Wars is a series of media texts, and in a way it makes just as much sense to decide which ones you are going to "accept" as your personal canon. As far as I'm concerned, after all, she is no more a real individual than is Anakin Skywalker. I have no connection whatsoever with the fortysomething singer who's probably in bed with her husband in Los Angeles right now. My connection is with the persona who is the sum of all the videos and songs I've come into contact with. In those terms, I can be as selective as I like.
Thanks Misc for your thought-provoking comment. Can anyone tell I am bored at work 2day.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
Okay. I also have this:
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
When I was 15 I got into the Prodigy, which was deeply uncool for my fellow gribblers. When I was at uni all the "guitar heavy metal music" ie Suede, Ash etc was a bit much for my new friends.
Out of the last 3 albums I bought, one was the best of Britney and one was School Reunion: The 80s triple disc box set.
Also, I seem to be against current taste by having very dark colours in my bedroom instead of a lilac bedspread, laminated flooring, pine Ikea picture frames, modern Art prints and bunches of twigs in square glass vases.
Posted by Boy Racer (Member # 498) on :
Don't forget dressing like a goth from dorset.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I quite like 80s depresso-political act "The The", who I think would be seriously uncool these days.
Posted by saltrock (Member # 622) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boy Racer:
quote:Originally posted by saltrock: I think my worst thing that I own and listen to on a semi-regular basis is the Best of De La Soul. Closely followed by the Best of Soul II Soul. They were in the cheapy basket in Tesco, ok?
How are these bad exactly? Apart from them being 'best of's instead of Three Feet High & Rising and Club Classics Vol 1?
I have been laughed at on more than one ocassion for these. Aha - maybe it just means that the people who laughed had really shit taste and now I can go laugh at them! Yay!
And also, I like The The.
[ 01.12.2004, 06:56: Message edited by: saltrock ]
Posted by Boy Racer (Member # 498) on :
My experience of this phenomenon has always been that while I understand that others don't share my superb taste, it can on occasion be mildly frustrating.
But it rarely bothers me, they are simply wrong, afterall.
BR Taste re: The The? Up until and including Infected = very cool, afterwards = Mojo.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
Posted by saltrock (Member # 622) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy:
That's just sick.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by saltrock: I think my worst thing that I own and listen to on a semi-regular basis is the Best of De La Soul.
quote:people who laughed
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
I have some simply cringe-inducing music in my collection, which due to the modern miracle of MP3, I have managed to inflict onto several of my friends also!
High points include:
-lots and lots of Barenaked Ladies -a significant chunk of Hue and Cry -two (two!) Steps albums -Marillion. Enough said. -oh, and Utah Saints.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote: -lots and lots of Barenaked Ladies
I fucking hate them. That stupid song of theirs where some wanker raps on and on about a load of bollocks and he makes me want to find him and strap him to one of those devices they fling clay pigeons from and then:
NB: I got that picture from a site called 'Roys Lodge' There is no connection.
Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
i think the most embarassing stuff in my collection is dodgy old goth & punk records, many of which were owned on vinyl and have since been replaced on cd.
bands include:
bauhaus
sisters of mercy
the cult
the cure
public image limited
the dead kennedys
i still love all this old stuff but i don't know anyone else who does, so it's usually solitary listening.
Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
the above is the worst thing i have written or read.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
On which planet is it embarrassing to own a dead kennedys CD?!? I'll tell you, actually: Planet Wanker.
NB: Planet Wanker is not an actual place
[ 01.12.2004, 08:58: Message edited by: Thorn Davis ]
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote: On which planet is it embarrassing to own a dead kennedy's CD?!? I'll tell you, actually: Planet Wanker.
And the Cult? And Public Image Ltd? Omikin, are you the horse in a one-horse town?
[ 01.12.2004, 08:58: Message edited by: Roy ]
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
See, I think some of you are missing the point. You are supposed to list things that you LIKE BUT ARE ASHAMED OF and not things that you THINK WOULD GET YOU COOL POINTS.
Happy to help.
Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
I have to concur - PIL+Cult+DK=
You should only be ashamed of being ashamed of liking those things.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
O! I'll tell you what, whenever my friends come around I always have to hide my copy of The Massacre At Paris! I would simply die if people caught me reading such rot!
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
OK confession time! I was reading Mme Bovary in the original Fr. this morning on the train... yes I know but I fancied a bit of a brain-holiday...
*makes mental note to hide British Sea Power album when I get in... so last Spring Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
Does my Top Gun DVD count for anything?
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by H1ppychick: You are supposed to list things that you LIKE BUT ARE ASHAMED OF and not things that you THINK WOULD GET YOU COOL POINTS.
Actually it was meant to be something in between. It's meant to be things that you really like but which you constantly see other people dissing in magazines, stupid telly programmes and on the WibWob, almost certainly for sheep-like reasons rather than because there is actually any grounds for ridicule or genuine criticism.
That requirement has drifted during the course of the thread but it's stayed entertaining enough to avoid any sort of official complaint.
Posted by Physic (Member # 195) on :
Okay how about:
and
Although Dire Straits probably doesn't count as although it's no doubt uncool I am in no way ashamed of owning much of their back catalogue, Knopfler is a god dammit!
Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
okay, ignore the things which are apparently on my list.
i have a bauhaus video too! it's mainly their singles but it includes live stuff too, like bela lugosi's dead and rosegarden funeral of sores) which i also love and would watch again tonight if my video wasn't bust.
does that get me back on track with the thread?
see how ashamed you've all made me => Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
go away, physic.
you are no longer welcome here.
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
Can we also list things that we think are crap but the bandwagon has decided are totally aces? viz. Franz Ferdinand?
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
I think there is cool-variation within the Dire Straits oeuvre. I own "Making Movies" and "Dire Straits", which I know risk mockery, but which I also know are really genuinely class. So the joke is on anyone who laughs at those albums. However, "Brothers in Arms" is, I feel, more dubious. Perhaps it needs re-evaluation beyond the instant kneejerk everyone bought that bloated boring album -- I would say the same for "Joshua Tree" so perhaps I should give other late-80s monsters a chance.
Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
you too, kovacs.
there's the door.
Posted by Bailey (Member # 261) on :
Hippy, I have wondered if I will look at my Franz Ferdinand cd in a few years time and view it in the same way I view my Menswe@r cd now, and think it is very likely. Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
Ok things I have that are uncool:
Various bad albums of the 80s - T'Pau, Pat Benetaar, the Bangles, Men Without Hats, Berlin, Dire Straits and Robert Palmer for starters.
DVDs and Videos - Top Gun, Airwolf and various others from my youth.
And come to think of it most of my clothes are also deemable as 'crap' - mainly ex-military gear, including my Italian army jacket from when I was 15, and some rather naff concert tour shirts.
But what the hell - some people just are never gonna be cool - and I gave up trying to fit in years ago.
Posted by Physic (Member # 195) on :
I would argue that anyone who derides Brothers In Arms as bloated and boring has little or no appreciation of the guitarists art, since to my mind it includes some of the finest guitar playing of any album. Mind you I'm hardly an impartial judge.
And Om I am barefaced in my lack of shame I tell you!
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Physic: since to my mind it includes some of the finest guitar playing of any album. Mind you I'm hardly an impartial judge.
You're not Mark Knopfler are you?
Posted by Physic (Member # 195) on :
quote:Originally posted by dang65: You're not Mark Knopfler are you?
dammit! was it the bandana that gave me away?
Posted by saltrock (Member # 622) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs:
*makes mental note to hide British Sea Power album when I get in... so last Spring
You really need to stop spending time in that fashion forum.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I think there is cool-variation within the Dire Straits oeuvre. I own "Making Movies" and "Dire Straits", which I know risk mockery, but which I also know are really genuinely class. So the joke is on anyone who laughs at those albums. However, "Brothers in Arms" is, I feel, more dubious. Perhaps it needs re-evaluation beyond the instant kneejerk everyone bought that bloated boring album -- I would say the same for "Joshua Tree" so perhaps I should give other late-80s monsters a chance.
How about Paul Simon's Graceland ?
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy: How about Paul Simon's Graceland ?
That's a good example. I loved that album when it came out. Excellent lyrics and combination of musical sources. Then it got all political and I don't think many have a good word for it now, in the media I mean. Still play it about once a year and get a good feeling.
My copy is on cassette and still has paint on it from when I was listening to it while decorating the bedroom in our first tiny little flat. In the winter. With no heating. I liked his next album as well, The Rhythm Of The Saints I think it is. Some pretty stuff on there.
Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I would say the same for "Joshua Tree" so perhaps I should give other late-80s monsters a chance.
I thought U@ lost the plot around the time of the Joshua Tree, and only of recent months returned to anything near the quality I recall of my youth. On the strength of the rather fab Vertigo I went out and purchased the new album last night.
I was wrong - half way through I just turned it off. Dull dull dull.....
Posted by Boy Racer (Member # 498) on :
Personally, I don't think it's ever been lacking taste to like Graceland, or The Joshua Tree, and there are tracks on Brothers in Arms that are as good as any in the Dire Straits canon, but that could just be the teenage Q reader in me rearing it's ugly head.
I think the key factor observed here is that taste is subject to fashion. Thereby some things that are of a specific time seize to be tasteful in the time which follows, possibly becoming by turns naff or kitcsh, possibly not. Obviously some things age more respectably, more tastefully, than others.
Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
you read Q as a teenager??? what the hell is wrong with you?
get
out.
i think i lack the tolerance for this thread.
Posted by damo (Member # 722) on :
dire straits = only did well in the 80s as they were one of the first releases on CD.
dire straits= patrick bateman probably likes them.
U2= fuck right off.
sade= you can stay.
Posted by Boy Racer (Member # 498) on :
Fuck off Om, Q was good when I was a teenager, it covered real music, man. Anyway it was my Dad's copy, and I also read Sounds and the NME, if that makes you feel better.
It was very much John Peel and Andy Kershaw in my middle teens.
Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
q has never, ever been good.
100% fact. if you don't believe me, look at a copy with your eyes.
the fact that it was your dad's copy in the first place says it all.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Physic: I would argue that anyone who derides Brothers In Arms as bloated and boring has little or no appreciation of the guitarists art, since to my mind it includes some of the finest guitar playing of any album.
Dude! If you like Dire Straits, You'd totally love *Hollister!
We even do a cover of *Sultans of Schwing.
Posted by Boy Racer (Member # 498) on :
quote:Originally posted by omikin: the fact that it was your dad's copy in the first place says it all.
The fact that you see this as a problem says a great deal to me.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by omikin: q has never, ever been good.
100% fact. if you don't believe me, look at a copy with your eyes.
Wrong. When Q came out, and for quite a few years after, it was the only proper music mag which ignored fashion and acknowledged older music alongside new trendy stuff. It may have jumped the shark now, descending into Top 100 lists and nude pictures of Sheryl Crowe or whatever, but it was smart and entertaining and also witty.
They started a laid-back and freeform style of writing which has now become a cliche but was fucking excellent to read when the alternative was an NME or Sounds stuck so far up their own arses that you couldn't actually read them without getting covered in shit.
Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boy Racer:
quote:Originally posted by omikin: the fact that it was your dad's copy in the first place says it all.
The fact that you see this as a problem says a great deal to me.
please tell me what it does say to you, boy.
as a teenager, did you not want a generation gap between yourself and your parents?
wouldn't that make you instinctively averse to anything they liked or thought was cool?
i'm not trying to be contrary here, i just can't imagine a scenario where a thirteen year old me has a friendly chat with my dad inspired by an article on level 42 or something.
i'm not saying it's something you don't grow out of. sure, later in life you may realise that some of the stuff your dad liked was good after all, but surely it's not a natural position?
Posted by Physic (Member # 195) on :
Personally much of the music I listen to now stems from what I listened to as a result of my dad playing it when I was younger, he was very into guitar based rock such as Direc Straits, Chris Rea and many more. Though I'm sure I would have distanced myself from most things my dad liked at the time music never seemed to be an issue, I liked much of the stuff he listened to, and much to my surprise he liked many of the bands that I got into, like Guns n' Roses, Bush and the like. I can understand that anything your parents like = you must dislike it as a kid, but surely most people grow out of what is, afterall, a somewhat immature mindset?
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Physic: I can understand that anything your parents like = you must dislike it as a kid, but surely most people grow out of what is, afterall, a somewhat immature mindset?
Hmm... I'm still not a big fan of nineteenth-century French organ music.
Posted by Boy Racer (Member # 498) on :
Perhaps that was a stupid response to your stupid statement OM, but perhaps we had different relationships with our fathers as teenagers?
Yes to a certain extent I did want a generation gap, but the rap, and punk, and heavier rock stuff I liked served that purpose perfectly well.
I've always talked to my father about music, and liked having a Dad who listened to John Peel, asked me about what music I liked, even for tapes for the car, and that didn't fundamentally change during my teens.
Also re: early Q, what Dang said.
[ 01.12.2004, 10:59: Message edited by: Boy Racer ]
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I think there is cool-variation within the Dire Straits oeuvre. I own "Making Movies" and "Dire Straits", which I know risk mockery, but which I also know are really genuinely class. So the joke is on anyone who laughs at those albums. However, "Brothers in Arms" is, I feel, more dubious.
I enjoy Dire Straits very much, even today. The release of "live at the BBC" on CD a few years back was a great thing - a still-unpolished slice of their early material. And they were their best when they were least polished. Compare this to "the bug" or other later singles, where it seemed the band was writing and performing not for the love of the material but due to a clause in a record contract. Which never leads to the best output.
In this case, I think the "lack of taste" label would apply more appropriately to those who derisively sneer at the band... but it wouldn't matter to me if no-one else liked them. I still would, and I still do.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
Now I would like to know where these people/bands rank in the Shame or Claim stakes:
1. The Police
2. Sting
3. Paul McCartney
4. Jean Michelle-Jarre
5. Tangerine Dream
6. INXS
7. Tin Machine
8. Guns N' Roses
9. Pet Shop Boys
10.Bros
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy: Now I would like to know where these people/bands rank in the Shame or Claim stakes:
CringeFactor™ gradings (out of ten):
1. The Police - four 2. Sting - nine 3. Paul McCartney - seven 4. Jean Michelle-Jarre - eight 5. Tangerine Dream - six 6. INXS - seven 7. Tin Machine - eight 8. Guns N' Roses - five 9. Pet Shop Boys - seven 10.Bros - nine Posted by saltrock (Member # 622) on :
Everyone will have their own take on it of course, but for me:
1. The Police - cool as
2. Sting - alright until maybe 5 years ago, anything he did after that sucks.
3. Paul McCartney - The Frog Chorus - need I say more?
4. Jean Michelle-Jarre - never saw the attraction in the first place, but very definitely anorak music now [speaks she who is by no means a young teenybopper herself!]
5. Tangerine Dream - dunno
6. INXS - sucks
7. Tin Machine - dunno
8. Guns N' Roses - I still like some of their songs, although they do sound very much "of their era" - I reckon they can still pass muster though.
9. Pet Shop Boys - eh?
10.Bros - never was, never will be.
Posted by squirrelandgman (Member # 201) on :
I used to like Sigue Sigue Sputnik and before that Styx.
I don't think I could come up with any compelling arguments to defend them.
Fortunatley I owned them on tape and so have not made the various moves with me. The same cannot be said for some very dodgy house/techno records.
Posted by Abby (Member # 582) on :
I saw Sigue Siuge Sputnick a couple of years ago!
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
Squirel and Abby - Stop fannying around and help answer my question.
Posted by Physic (Member # 195) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: CringeFactor™ gradings (out of ten):
4. Jean Michelle-Jarre - eight
fuck off, Jean Michelle-Jarre made some great tunes.
quote: 8. Guns N' Roses - five
Fuck off even more, Guns n' Roses were my favourite band when I was a teen and I will not have them described as cringe-worthy! Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
If it helps
-JMJ - just dated, not embarrasing, just dated. -Guns n' Roses - Of course they are cringeworthy! God, there was nothing better than 'you could be mine' slapped between a scene where a floppy fringed Eddie Furlungs would ride off on his 25cc dirt bike, but not cringeworthy. Axel Rose put socks down his lycra shorts. Slash played a solo on a mountain top without a long extension lead. Izzy Stradlin is barely even a comedy sexual-pun name. Man, I would dance my ass off to 'Locomotive' right here and now, just as long as....just as long as no-one saw me dance.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Physic: Fuck off even more, Guns n' Roses were my favourite band when I was a teen and I will not have them described as cringe-worthy!
They were also my favourite band when I was thirteen. My dad banned their tape from the car after hearing Get in the Ring. Whatever - they still make me cringe.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
D'you reckon Jean Michelle Jarre has a mini-him on stage who humps his la-ser?
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
quote:Originally posted by omikin:
quote:Originally posted by Boy Racer:
quote:Originally posted by omikin: the fact that it was your dad's copy in the first place says it all.
The fact that you see this as a problem says a great deal to me.
please tell me what it does say to you, boy.
as a teenager, did you not want a generation gap between yourself and your parents?
wouldn't that make you instinctively averse to anything they liked or thought was cool?
i'm not trying to be contrary here, i just can't imagine a scenario where a thirteen year old me has a friendly chat with my dad inspired by an article on level 42 or something.
i'm not saying it's something you don't grow out of. sure, later in life you may realise that some of the stuff your dad liked was good after all, but surely it's not a natural position?
This is in fact the whole argument. What is objectively good versus what is subjectively good. Do your opinions follow those of the pack and therefore you only believe something is subjectively good because other people say they do?
Do you consider that something is objectively good and consequently the received wisdom of popular opinion is either misinformed, formed from an inappropriate basis or entirely irrelevant?
Anyone who says Paul McCartney - Frog Chorus, nuff said, is I suspect in the former camp. No offence saltrock but to dismiss a hugely influential career on the grounds of one duff track is somewhat sheeplike.
Posted by herbs (Member # 101) on :
I like Keane.
Do I win?
Posted by saltrock (Member # 622) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hippy: Anyone who says Paul McCartney - Frog Chorus, nuff said, is I suspect in the former camp. No offence saltrock but to dismiss a hugely influential career on the grounds of one duff track is somewhat sheeplike.
Fair dos. I wasn't actually meaning to dismiss his entire career, but for me [and this is afterall about personal taste] whenever someone mentions Paul McCartney, I tend to think of the Frog Chorus and Mull of MacKintire. Perhaps not being a big fan of his I have missed out on a lot of good stuff that he did.
Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
Guns and Roses were and will always be cool - but indeed for that time. There were elements of them that were shite (Axl Rose wearing lycra pants, singing from Autocue etc), but you try and deny the resist of the air guitar when you hear Paradise City or tell me that Sweet Child of mine is bobbins.
Jean Michel Jarre whilst obviously pretentious, is indeed a fine musician and elements of Oxygene and Equinoxe are some of the finest synthesizer pieces ever written, and nearly as important to the whole sythesizer movement as say Kraftwerk, IMHO.
And may I just also add that though mentioned - Level 42 - excellent! My first ever live gig, and so influential to so many bass players. Recentley I was in an SU bar at Oxford Uni with Random Jon from the Wildhearts, and they had the 10 minute remix of Hot Water on the Jukebox. Should have seen the man go nuts (much to the dismay of the other band members and the students) to that. happy Days (soon to be relived!)
Shouldn't this be in Music?
Posted by Abby (Member # 582) on :
quote: I like Keane.
Do I win?
If you can reliably differentiate between Keane, Coldplay and Travis then you will be declared champion!
Although of course they are thought of as cool by The Establishement, and are in fact shit which is the wrong way round for the thread...
Posted by Raz (Member # 449) on :
quote:Originally posted by herbs: I like Keane.
Do I win?
'Bedshaped' is actually one of the best songs I've heard this year, but the rest seems to be a shapeless mush of uselessness. And the boy has a massive face.
You win if you support all of their work, and his massive face.
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
I support all of their work, and his massive face.
Seriously, I think the songs of Travis, Coldplay and Keane are cleverly written (both melodically and lyrically). I think this backlash against "sensitive" rock/pop is just a "Bored now. Feed me new and different!" comment rather than a realistic assessment of their quality.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by H1ppychick: I think this backlash against "sensitive" rock/pop is just a "Bored now. Feed me new and different!" comment rather than a realistic assessment of their quality.
I don't see the point of making music that isn't in some way "new or different".
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
What's the problem with it just being "good"?
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
Otherwise why would anyone ever listen to an album more than once?
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by H1ppychick: Otherwise why would anyone ever listen to an album more than once?
I'm not saying there's no point in listening to a piece of music that isn't new or different. I'm talking about the writing process.
Four or five generic musicians sit down together in the studio and write some music.
Generic Musician #1:"What do you reckon of this chord progression?"
Generic Musician #2:"Well it's pretty similar to something Radiohead released on their second album."
Generic Musician #3:"So what? It was popular when they did it..."
Generic Musician #1:"Yeah. Let's use it then!"
Christ - if that was the sort of thing that happened at *small-print's rehearsals, I'd have quit the band long ago!
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: I don't see the point of making music that isn't in some way "new or different".
Following Ben's example, I did some kitchen decoration the other day, and played Girls Aloud's debut album twice, relishing its joycore energy again. "No Good Advice" steals blatantly from "My Sharona", "Life Got Cold" unapologetically pastiches "Wonderwall". For that matter, "Some Might Say" ends with a lift from "Little Help From My Friends". I don't love either song, but "Life Thru A Lens" (Williams) is a twin of "Australia" (Manics).
If you turn your nose up at everything recycled, reinvented and re-envisioned, you will be throwing out most of the last two decades' popular culture.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: If you turn your nose up at everything recycled, reinvented and re-envisioned, you will be throwing out most of the last two decades' popular culture.
Not a bad ambition for a band.
Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
it's not just the last 20 years, either!
sid vicious did a song called "my way" which is almost exactly the same as a frank sinatra song of the same name but with punk guitars. and sneering.
there is nothing new under the sun.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
I bet you would still end up being influenced by Bowie, Beatles and the Velvets, even if it's in your deliberate attempt to do differently.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: Not a bad ambition for a band.
Unless your ambition is to byte every single style you can think of and make something brand spank me new.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I bet you would still end up being influenced by Bowie, Beatles and the Velvets,
You missed the program on the Beatles the other night then?
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Well that doesn't happen to be the ambition of my band, anyway. Of course our influences will be evident in our music.
There seems to be a large number of bands around at the moment that are "inspired" by exactly the same sound - and that's when the boredom sets in.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay:
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I bet you would still end up being influenced by Bowie, Beatles and the Velvets,
You missed the program on the Beatles the other night then?
Yes, because it was on Saturday evening. Why.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
I meant to add a winkie and imply that's what I was trying to do.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
I wish I had seen that programme, actually. I would like to see the entire series.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: Yes, because it was on Saturday evening. Why.
Because they weren't classicly trained. They amalgamated all of their experience from previous covers and in most of the cases, just happened to follow the right scales through previous knowledge of pre-ordained scales. If anything, they were just the first plagiarists. So they probably just ripped off some poor songwriters from Liverpool and cashed in on the hard work of Boethius.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Would anyone here really be happy to listen to music by bands like Keane, Coldplay, Snow Patrol and Travis for the rest of their lives? I'm sure there'll always be bands like these, but without true innovators (Black Francis, Thurston Moore, Polly Harvey, Kristeen Young, Nina Ramsby, etc), music will do nothing but tread water. Maybe that's what some people want, but not Misc.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Because they weren't classicly trained. They amalgamated all of their experience from previous covers and in most of the cases, just happened to follow the right scales through previous knowledge of pre-ordained scales. If anything, they were just the first plagiarists. So they probably just ripped off some poor songwriters from Liverpool and cashed in on the hard work of Boethius.
Interesting and in a way takes my point about the prevalence of plagiarism back even further -- you would have to ignore generations of pop music to find a "pure" band who hadn't based their sound on someone else. If it was possible at all.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: Interesting and in a way takes my point about the prevalence of plagiarism back even further -- you would have to ignore generations of pop music to find a "pure" band who hadn't based their sound on someone else. If it was possible at all.
To give them a fair bit of credit, they furthered technological grounds in that they forced the industry to develop larger multitrackers and invented the 'Flange' technique. (no laughing at the back) I guess, for me, as much as I rate what The Beatles did for marketing music, I just try to remember that they were also influenced by 'skiffle' to begin with and cross-bred their writing skills with rock and roll from the US. I don't think you were unfair to suggest that The Beatles were a massive mark in music history and that a lot of bands use them as a reference to creating 'tunes' They're a fantastic template of the perfect band.
The thought that haunts my waking hours is that, in time someone else will have to place the point in history for future bands to refer to. :wince: Oasis perhaps? Keanolpatravow Patrol?
Posted by saltrock (Member # 622) on :
Well, call me tasteless if you will, but I like Coldplay and I can never understand why people bracket them with Keane and Travis, who to me are totally interchangable and I never know which one of the two is actually playing. To me, Coldplay sound entirely different to these two. It's Chris Martin's voice mostly. He puts a certain inflection the end of his words which I really like.
Am I going to get struck with lightening from the God of Taste now? Or Hippy? Baaaaaaaa.
Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
i used to like saltrock, too.
Posted by saltrock (Member # 622) on :
There's no accounting for taste, eh?
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
I'm not gonna come and ass-whup you for liking Coldplay, Saltrock. And I'm sorry if you think I was singling you out earlier. I think that you were collateral damage in my general infuriation with people who, for example, four years ago thought Travis were the total messiahs, now jumping up and down on them in spiky stilettoes just because they're no longer the hot new act and they can't be seen to be lagging behind the times. The music is still as good, so why not the review?
Posted by saltrock (Member # 622) on :
quote:Originally posted by H1ppychick: I'm not gonna come and ass-whup you for liking Coldplay, Saltrock. And I'm sorry if you think I was singling you out earlier. I think that you were collateral damage in my general infuriation with people who, for example, four years ago thought Travis were the total messiahs, now jumping up and down on them in spiky stilettoes just because they're no longer the hot new act and they can't be seen to be lagging behind the times. The music is still as good, so why not the review?
Ha ha! I misread that originally. Ahem.
I can honestly say I have never liked Travikeane and nor am I ever likely too. I am not a fickle person by nature. I liked Coldplay when they were first around, I still like 'em now. In fact, I *heart* them! So there!!!
[ 02.12.2004, 11:17: Message edited by: saltrock ]
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Please stop while the forum likes you. Do like Misc and I do; Love Guns n Roses, in the dark, on a set of headphones. I hate to say it but sometimes it pays for me to pretend I don't like Altered Images. C P Grogan makes me giddy like Marijne. This is one shameband you need to keep locked up.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: C P Grogan makes me giddy like Marijne.
"Hey Mikee, could you help me with my zipper?" Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
Travis totally *rock* live, by the way. And Dougie is surprisingly shaggable for an ugly skinny bloke with a big hooter and Boris Becker eyelashes. Who can't dance.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
I wouldn't need a zipper. I would just split her in half to get at the flesh inside.
I would do it with the ease a schoolboy tears the red wax off of a Babybel to cram his maw with cheese.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: I wouldn't need a zipper. I would just split her in half to get at the flesh inside.
I would do it with the ease a schoolboy tears the red wax off of a Babybel to cram his maw with cheese.
I'll be sure to pass that on to her. Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
ITV 2nd December, 17.05pmWhen schoolboy crushes go wrong - Misc Tarrant looks into the spooky phenommy-nommy-non of the billion to one chance that the MTV personality you wanked over most from 1992-1995 is going to receive an e-mail saying 'my mate fancies you' An all new series of humiliating experiences where a mans very soul is thrown through the wash and hung out to dry.
[ 02.12.2004, 12:11: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
I think we should club together and buy *this for NWoD's xmas pressie.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Please stop while the forum likes you. Do like Misc and I do; Love Guns n Roses, in the dark, on a set of headphones. I hate to say it but sometimes it pays for me to pretend I don't like Altered Images. C P Grogan makes me giddy like Marijne. This is one shameband you need to keep locked up.
It's too late. The damage is done. *hangsheadinshame*
But if it's any help, I once tried to copy how Clare Grogan danced in the Happy Birthday video when at a Yoof Club disco. I got all carried away and didn't notice that everyone else had stopped dancing and were standing around me in a circle, pointing and laughing. *hangsheadinbiggershame* And my mum had made me have a pageboy haircut.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
You should have done the 'I could be happy' dance instead. Its a sure fire winner.
[ 02.12.2004, 18:15: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: -JMJ - just dated, not embarrasing, just dated.
Whilst I'm not a big Jean-Michel Jarre fan by any means, I did accidentally hear his 2002 album called Sessions 2000 and it is sort of ambient, futuristic synth jazz - in the nicest possible way. I'd very much recommend it to anyone that wants to test out their new expensive Hi-Fi.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I am barefaced in my lack of shame I tell you!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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