I love watching the culture battles lurching back and forth on here. Chavs, Selfish Mums, Worthless Layabouts, Filth Tiders...
But, the main thrust over here is generally cultural. You know, books, movies, music, video games, fashion. Plus, we flatter ourselves that we're on the sharper side of the cutting edge.
Good for us, I say. Fuck the naysayers, nobodies and no-nuffinks.
This thread is about the next big thing.
I'm not claiming to be superfresh over here. I know squeaks and squalls have been heard. But...
What?
Chav. You mock. I mock.
Let's look again.
A Richard Harris for the 21st Century?
Look at these...
Remember Punk?
Remember Glam?
Remember Mod?
Remember Ted?
That mix of the redundant, the despised, the unattainable. The styles of the super-rich and fabulous, modulated for the working classes?
Sound familiar?
Think those fashions started among a pioneering working-class elite and were picked up on and exploited by the established fashion world?
There is a certain amount of "angry at the man" energy about chav's. I guess the problem has been that it has been seen as some Essex/East thing trapped down in that neck of the woods. However, having driven that way a few times for work, I have been reminded of stories of the mod/rocker fights that my dad was involved in, expecially when you start to see the souped car chav vs the 2 stroke moped chav.
Still, that last picture....
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A very charming and attractive young man I met recently was telling me about the phenonemon of the 'chav-lover'. He said that he'd met a really hot woman online who'd then, on meeting him and observing his hipster/punk stylings, commented that she was sorry, but 'she only fucked chavs'. And then he told me about a nightclub frequented by Burberry-wearing types which was now also being frequented by those who specifically wanted to pick up said types. I think this one was a gay thing... 'chav' being the modern equivalent of a bit of rough trade. I guess it's inevitable that as this subculture becomes desired and fetishised, its fashions will move into the mainstream to some extent - although I can't see Burberry reclaiming the haute cachet it once had.
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A lot of people on here mock Ringo for being into modded cars and 'ting, but it's blatantly obvious that cruising is the single distinctive, authentic youth culture that's emerged in the past five years.
I mean, I'm as pleased as anyone that the goths have returned from the brink of extinction (speculation: could it be that these creatures - panda-eyed, gentle, misunderstood, unable to get it up - have been mistaken for species already on the WWF's 'endangered' list? Maybe there's been some sort of concerted international effort to conserve their habitat and reintroduce them into areas beyond Northampton and Leeds?) but it's all a bit of a retread, isn't it - whereas modding has the vibe of something that's mutated afresh and is flourishing way beyond the pale of the mainstream advertising/media/consumption machine.
quote:Jason helping Phil's polish to set with his NoS Fogger - very cool, Very Funny and Finally when Phil got his car finished we had a gleaming showroom finish on a Honda Civic with Lambo Style doors. (There was a Lamborghini Murcielago also with Lambo style doors but It looks better on a Civic.)
That mix of the redundant, the despised, the unattainable. The styles of the super-rich and fabulous, modulated for the working classes?
Sound familiar?
I'm not at all sure about Punk and Ted, for a start, being the styles of the super-rich and fabulous modulated for the working-classes. I don't see the parallel here. If Chavs represent a cut-price emulation of Posh and Beckham -- market-stall labels, faux handbags, Argos bling -- how do you map that back to Punks and Teds? Isn't the name Teddy Boy drawn from their supposed Edwardian styling? Isn't Punk genuinely something invented at street level, rather than having anything to do with a trend where low-income youths try to look like people in Heat?
quote: Think those fashions started among a pioneering working-class elite and were picked up on and exploited by the established fashion world?
I have seen convincing arguments that this was the case with Punk and the Beats -- or at least, that these fashions were started among a pioneering subculture (not necessarily working-class, but not at all celebrity or haute couture) and then disseminated by tabloids, then appropriated by telly and films.
quote: Think it might happen again?
I do.
Comment, you useless fuck.
I don't really see how you're saying Chav is the next big thing. It has already dissolved into the mainstream -- there are little books by the counters in Waterstones about how to identify a Chav. It doesn't seem quite like the examples you cite, and I think this subculture is quite late into its cycle.
posted
My impression (backed up by documentary-truth console game GTA San Andreas) is that modding cars dates way back at least to the Latino "low-riders" of the early 1990s. MK boyz fixing fiber-glass bumpers to their bangers are only playing American ghetto and are arguably no more interesting or pioneering than the white suburban kids trying to talk like 50 Cent. The wigga absurdity of the modding trend was parodied some time ago by Sacha Baron-Cohen and Tim Freeman in Ali G Indahouse -- when even the parody seems tired and ancient, the original must be well past its sell-by.
posted
I axpect you are axing me now: what is the newest big thing then K-MAN, u cant jus be fe bumba hatin claat.
It is Revealed
The Glittergoth or Fairy Goth
This movement is, as yet, so obscure that you can only read about it in Cyrillic -- just like something out of Wm Gibson novels!
quote:6.6 - GlitterGoth, FairyGoth
Достаточно странное порождение готической субкультуры, в основном касающееся только лиц женского пола. Характеризуется китчевым смешением стилей и цветов. Изначально так называли девушек-готов "косивших под фей", но постепенно этот термин приобрел несколько другое значение - теперь так называют определенный глэм стиль.
Одежда - Girls: топы и юбки различных, по большей части не характерных для готов (часто розового, салатового, итд) цветов, хотя нередка и одежда черного цвета, разноцветные колготки.
Одежда - Boys: практически не встречаются.
Обувь: Combat Boots, странной расцветки (красные, с разводами, с паутинками, etc) или фетиш обувь (часто меховые ботинки).
Прическа - Girls: неестественных цветов (розовый, зеленый, синий, фиолетовый) часто используются нейлоновые парики этих цветов. Общий стиль прически в духе Betty Page - bondage модели 60-х.
Прическа - Boys: практически не встречаются.
Украшения: все достаточно мило, цепочечки, браслетики, фенечки.
Аксессуары: крылышки фей на плечах.
Make-up: в духе 60-х - подведенные глаза с высокими надбровными дугами, губы красятся в яркие цвета, ногти тоже могут быть разных цветов.
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: My impression (backed up by documentary-truth console game GTA San Andreas) is that modding cars dates way back at least to the Latino "low-riders" of the early 1990s. MK boyz fixing fiber-glass bumpers to their bangers are only playing American ghetto and are arguably no more interesting or pioneering than the white suburban kids trying to talk like 50 Cent. The wigga absurdity of the modding trend was parodied some time ago by Sacha Baron-Cohen and Tim Freeman in Ali G Indahouse -- when even the parody seems tired and ancient, the original must be well past its sell-by.
That kind of mockery and out-of-hand dismissal accompanies any authentic youth culture phenomenon -- typically it comes from a representative of a preceding, now defunct, movement (New Romantic?).
No movement appears out of nowhere and it may well be that modding has incorporated elements of black or latino style - but to make out it's just some sort of wannabe phenomenon is shallow and inadequate; browse a few modding sites or read one of Ringo's cruising rhapsodies and you're encountering something as English as Morrissey or Malcolm MacLaren.
Also: use of Ali G to make any sort of point about youth culture is reactionary or, at least, hopelessly coarse.
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posted
Cultures are very curious phenomena though, aren't they. The way so many people flock together to one look, and they way they genuinely respect each other for conforming in that way while many of us look in bemusement. Most of these movements end up being the very opposite of the rebellion or individualism of the people who first start them, including Punk. I was at school during the Punk era and you were considered some kind of freak if you didn't have a variety of homemade badges, a chopped off school tie and a selection of safety pins strategically placed about your person.
And these movements take years to germinate. By the time anything appears on Radio One or in the Daily Mail, it is long fermented and there's something new being started elsewhere. Only occasionally does something seem to spontaneously become a craze. The current obsession for charity wristbands can only have started at the beginning of 2004 when the first ones were introduced, rather than being some cutting edge thing five years ago which slowly grew. But that's not a movement, just a craze.
What's next? It always comes down to a fashion, a look, with associated music in the past but probably not so essential now (what is Chav music? That generic Drum & Bass stuff you hear driving around?) There also seems to be a regular alternation between style obsessing -> style discarding -> style obsessing. Say Mods -> Hippies -> Glam -> Punk -> New Romantic -> Grunge/Rave -> Chav. Being a bit selective there, but just illustrating how one seems to deliberately distance itself from the other.
Seeing as Chav is meant to be a look of aspiration, wealth, bling (I'm never sure if they're deliberately parodying the tacky celeb Posh'n'Becks look or if it's meant to be a homage) then I suppose we should be watching for a scruffy look next, and a look which is as far removed from celebrity, designer labels and Heat magazine as humanly possible. Come round to my house then and I'll show you the future.
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quote:Originally posted by dang65: And these movements take years to germinate. By the time anything appears on Radio One or in the Daily Mail, it is long fermented and there's something new being started elsewhere.
Is that really true now? My impression is that while it may have been true in the era you describe, it is much less so now. Or at least the time-to-mainstream press is much shorter today. It seems like the media will jump on anything and call it a trend or sub-culture, perhaps even where non exist. As though there were a prize for uncovering the next big thing, even before it's really found itself.
I would love to be able to think of an example to back this up with, but I can't. Maybe it's not right but that's certainly the way it feels to me.
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quote:Originally posted by dang65: And these movements take years to germinate.
Is that really true now?
When I say years, I mean a couple of years rather than, like, a decade or something.
A recent trend seems to be the slightest change = new fashion phenomena. This is where a slight modification of an old look becomes the essential "new" thing (say a rose tattoo on the arm modified to a celtic pattern tattoo just above the arse). They're both just tattoos. It's not like it went from rose tattoo on the arm to ear-lobe extension surgery or something.
There are bands which get the instant fame thing, but that's almost purely a bored journalist thing and it's really not good for the bands in question who seem to last for about two albums before everyone hates them so much they have to change their names and have plastic surgery.
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Perhaps. I also feel that the media plays a much stronger role in cultural shifts than it did in the past. I mean, the back-influence of the media is stronger. Not that I can really remember that far back in the past or anything.
You're right, they are both tattoos. But (I'm going to be really naive here) isn't that like saying 'they're both hairstyles' or 'they're both still jackets' or something? Even though they represent or are a part of entirely different movements?
I wasn't really thinking about bands getting the instant fame thing. Sure that's bored or simly lazy journalists, I agree. But isn't the everybody hating them after two records thing an example of back-influence of the media?
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quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I'm not at all sure about Punk and Ted... I don't see the parallel here... Isn't the name Teddy Boy drawn from their supposed Edwardian styling? Isn't Punk genuinely something invented at street level
Yeah, Teds were aping the stylings of Edwardian 'gentlemen' in an exaggerated-dandy fashion. I'd say that parallel was pretty obvious. Okay, Punk may not have attempted to emulate the stylings of the rich and famous, but it certainly used twisted modifications of those stylings in a contemptuous way. Before you could buy bondage pants down the market you had to buy yourself a new pair of Levis, cut them up and pin them back together. I'm pretty sure it wasn't entirely generated by the street, either. A lot of that look kicked off from Westwood's Sex, didn't it. They were selling fancy frilly Ted apparel there, alongside rubber and fetish gear, so definitely quite 'specialised'. And I also read Westwood saying that the look she was after (with punk) was like that of the aristos of revolutionary France who walked around the roughest parts of the city wearing rouge guillotine-slices painted round their necks. So, tenuous, but maybe...
[ 19.05.2005, 05:29: Message edited by: Black Mask ]
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The thing that frustrates me more than anything is the rise in popularity for mody modification. Imagine, if say, you decide that you want a certain pattern or look that you like and it becomes the next seasons look. For example, hot-rod flames, cue-balls, chequers, stars are affiliated with a rockabilly look. Now that Psychobilly is popular amongst the kids, anyone with this styling is going to feel like a bit disposable in their comfortable genre. Something so permanent is a bitch to get rid of. Ear tunnels swiftly removed make dogs-arse shaped scars. A wrong choice of ink colour can't be covered over, removed or lazered away. This has always irritated me. That someone would permanently mark themselves with something faddish because for me, tatooing is a personal process and slapping something cheaply onto the flesh that is going to be there forever seems like a lack of foresight or any real commitment.
In my hometown, there is a subculture of people who desire to cover themselves in cheap artwork in the hopes that their status improves with the amount of Ink they possess. I think it shows a lack of long term planning, and that a decision to have a tattoo should be deep rooted in ones own self, not on the whim of the latest, 'cool' designs.
posted
Black Mask, are you considering moving to Croydon or something?
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Sorry, I did want to post some images in regards to the growth of the subculture of Straight-Edgers and Vegan Hardcore but I'm worried someone is lurking and might take offense. Basically, it's not that the lifestyle is a problem, but useually the immense elitism born of it. Making moral choices seem to turn people into zealots who rip into you for eating meat, but still wear animal products. It's a lot of posing, which I think that early Straight-edgers would resent. Making a lifestyle choice in this way is to further yourself internally surely, not socially.
Because I can't write much on this. I've produced a cheesy dumbed down idiots guide to Straight-Edge.
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: The thing that frustrates me more than anything is the rise in popularity for mody modification. Imagine, if say, you decide that you want a certain pattern or look that you like and it becomes the next seasons look. For example, hot-rod flames, cue-balls, chequers, stars are affiliated with a rockabilly look. Now that Psychobilly is popular amongst the kids, anyone with this styling is going to feel like a bit disposable in their comfortable genre. Something so permanent is a bitch to get rid of. Ear tunnels swiftly removed make dogs-arse shaped scars. A wrong choice of ink colour can't be covered over, removed or lazered away. This has always irritated me. That someone would permanently mark themselves with something faddish because for me, tatooing is a personal process and slapping something cheaply onto the flesh that is going to be there forever seems like a lack of foresight or any real commitment.
Maybe people who've put real thought into their tattoo should include tattooed footnotes, further explicating the rationale behind their choice?
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quote:Originally posted by ben: Maybe people who've put real thought into their tattoo should include tattooed footnotes, further explicating the rationale behind their choice?
Lolloth!
quote:In one swift finger stoke, ben had created the craze that would later go on to become footnoting. Like Jazz, it wasn't about looking at the actual tattoo, but really stringing together all the footnotes to create a myriad of swirling patterns across torso, arms and legs.
[ 19.05.2005, 08:26: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: My impression (backed up by documentary-truth console game GTA San Andreas) is that modding cars dates way back at least to the Latino "low-riders" of the early 1990s. MK boyz fixing fiber-glass bumpers to their bangers are only playing American ghetto and are arguably no more interesting or pioneering than the white suburban kids trying to talk like 50 Cent. The wigga absurdity of the modding trend ...
Earlier than early 90's mate... I knew of Low-Riders in the early-80s (I was 6 and remember having my Hot Wheels bounce whilst crusing up and down my street...) Later, my BMX had loads of little trick things like 'shocks' and pegs so that it too could bounce. By the time I was 16, bouncing cars was something 'gangstas' did in LA, so instead of having proper low-riders, me and my friends would just mod our cars with under carriage lights, kick ass systems (at one point, I had 8 12" subs in my boot and the base alone would push my car if in neutral), low-profile tires, and spoilers.
To the rest of your comment, I completely agree. There is nothing funnier to me than seeing 'ganstas' here talking/dressing/action like American 'ganstas' that their only exposure too is on Yo' MTV Raps. Most of these punks around here wouldn't last 5 minutes back home acting the way they do... (one threatened me a couple years ago by telling me to, "back off before I stick you in the eye with my pencil"... To which I replied that I have had knives/guns pulled on me in the past and it'd take more than his school kit to scare me)...
Anyway, on topic, chavs are established and (with luck) will be fading soon. I reckon the next phase is going to be some sort of electrica fusion where PDAs and mobiles will be the accessories of choice. You won't be worth a shit unless you have a iPod or know how lay your own tracks using Fruity Loops.
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Actually cruising and the modified car scene has been around since the 1950's, and originates with the original hot-rodders. For a feel of the origins of the scene, I heartily recommend watching the film American Graffiti, upon which I base my life. And is remarkably good to boot.
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Although on checking the details I find that the film is actually set in 1962. Still, modding and cruising has been around since the late 50's.
Also - the film is by George Lucas, which is surprising as it proves that Lucas was, at one point at least, able to produce a decent film. One could compare Lucas's career to the life of Anakin Skywalker; starting out as a young Jedi, with huge portential, but being seduced by the dark side and eventually turning to the Sith...
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quote:Originally posted by Ringo: Although on checking the details I find that the film is actually set in 1962. Still, modding and cruising has been around since the late 50's.
quote:Originally posted by sabian: I reckon the next phase is going to be some sort of electrica fusion where PDAs and mobiles will be the accessories of choice. You won't be worth a shit unless you have a iPod or know how lay your own tracks using Fruity Loops.
HAH! That would make me stylish and cutting-edge. Which is simpy not possible.
quote:Originally posted by squeegy: HAH! That would make me stylish and cutting-edge. Which is simpy not possible.
Ah but squeeg, which version of FL are you using? Do you have the right plugins installed? If you don't you're a fucking nobody. And noone is going to tell you how to config your way into the in crowd.
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Cheers for the reality check. I was walking around with a big smile at the thought of being the next cool kid. Deep down I knew it was just a dream.
scrawny
One Mojito, two Gin and Tonics, Three Bacardi Lime Sodas, and a couple of pints of Stella please.
posted
Hello.
I have a couple of questions - if you saw a chav, right, and he/she was reading a book, right, what do you reckon that book would be? Similarly, if a chav was listening too music on his car stereo, what would that music be?
Answers on a postcard...
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