Out of interest, anyone seen the cubes exibit in the turbine hall at Tate Modern? Saw some photo's and that looks pretty amazing.
[ 21.10.2005, 10:59: Message edited by: Bill Oddie ]
Posted by sabian (Member # 6) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bill Oddie: Out of interest, anyone seen the cubes exibit in the turbine hall at Tate Modern? Saw some photo's and that looks pretty amazing.
I'm not a fan of modern 'art' at the best of times, but I was thinking about seeing this... That is until I read an interview with the 'artist' that the cubes were made from casts of seperate cardboard boxes, chosen for their "character"....
Twat.
Posted by squeegy (Member # 136) on :
I'd hate to be the poor bastard who had to clean up afterwards.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Wouldn't it have been great if the bouncy balls have gathered so much height and speed during their fall that they smashed windows and killed pensioners with solid rubber sounding thwacks and as they all came to a slow, continuous but winding down bouncing motion the street is left littered with a debris of glass and corpses? The director, stood on top of the hill thinking 'oh shit'
Posted by Doctor Agamemnon When (Member # 189) on :
Now that WOULD go viral.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
OK - I am currently in possession of stills, the making of, and the films itself.
- All the cars were props so no damage was done
- They fired the balls down four times, had nets at the bottom, and a team of seventy five people picking them out of hedges every time
- There's no CGI, though when you see it, it's hard to believe
- The song they cut the film to, Heartbeats by the wonderful Jose Gonzales, is using the ad as its video when it gets released
- Due to Air november 6th
- about the best thing I've ever seen
That is all x
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bill Oddie:
Out of interest, anyone seen the cubes exibit in the turbine hall at Tate Modern? Saw some photo's and that looks pretty amazing.
I checked it out on Saturday. I did the best I could trying to get some interesting pix but I don't honestly think it's a remarkable installation.
It's probably a chattering-classes cliche already to say this, but the Weather Project was better.
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
It reminds me of that episode of Friends where Ross and Joey made a box fort in Chandlers apartment.
Posted by statist (Member # 806) on :
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: - The song they cut the film to, Heartbeats by the wonderful Jose Gonzales, is using the ad as its video when it gets released
What do you mean getting released -- hasn't it been released already? It's, like, a decade old. Well, no, but Jose Gonzales' version is at least two years old -- I remember listening to it in my old flat and that was forever ago. The song was written by Swedish couple-band The Knife. I don't believe they had any distribution in the UK until around 18 months ago. They are ace, actually. I would even recommend them to some people.
Maybe that's all a bit of an exaggeration -- I just don't see why it's getting released now.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
Rereleased, oh musical bloodhound.
They're putting it out again because a whole bunch of people are going to see the ad and want to buy it I assume.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I don't even care.
[ 25.10.2005, 07:30: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
There could be only two reasons for statist asking a question like that:
1.) He doesn't know how promotion works (unlikely)
or
2.) He wants to say in so many words "Look at me everyone! I am so cutting edge cool I have heard of this song years ago and liked it so much then but it's fucking rubbish now everyone is listening to it. Kneel beneath your musical god. If I'm still into kneeling by the time this post goes out that is"
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
The Honda advert will never be bettered.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
For me, PR stunts peaked in the early eighties when they used to glue a man to a wooden board and dangle him over houses from a helicopter.
Those crazy days.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I tell what I can't stand, is those fucking mint adverts. "Is that Jenkins riding bareback on the word mint?". The way that the guy is in the locker room, talking with his colleague about a business deal that went wrong, but the girl is talking about a date with a man with a funny shaped nose. Grrrrr! It's so fucking "ho ho ho" and twee and artless, it makes my blood boil.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
The one I hate is the 'Wildbean Cafe' one where a woman says to a man as she gets out of his car 'Coming in for a coffee' and he turns his nose up and says 'Er, NO' and drives off to get a coffee from a service station.
1) She's not offering coffee, she's offering sex, and if you're trying to say that a cup of coffee from a BP garage is better than the old 'in/out', then you are a bit fucked up.
2) Okay, so maybe's she's just offering coffee. HOW DOES HE KNOW WHAT KIND OF COFFEE SHE HAS? She might work for BP and have loads of this Wildbean shit, and then you could work on the shag.
[ 25.10.2005, 07:57: Message edited by: Roy ]
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
These days I can only really stomach infommercials, because they don't try and appeal to people's sense of superiority. I can watch them and feel superior in peace, without being constantly made aware that I will never earn enough money to come into the target market for anything other than Claims Direct or Diet coke. All those volkswagon ads, where suit and sweater wearing men prove their intelligence and social/professional/family credentials via the smart purchase of a quality yet discreet car make me, literally, want to grab the well groomed protagonists by their mid range designer shirt collars and punch them full in the face. Really punch them square in their fucking noses.
[ 25.10.2005, 08:09: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by Jack Vincennes (Member # 814) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: mint adverts
I love the way these have the wee tagline 'What's stopping you from getting one?' (or something like that) as though OBVIOUSLY deep-seated pychological dread is to blame and not the fact that their STUPID SHAPED CARD is not accepted in ANY CASH MACHINE, ANYWHERE and is consequently UTTERLY USELESS.
Posted by ben (Member # 13) on :
Also: that Guinness advert with the horses/surfers - what a load of wank. What sort of easily-swayed aesthetic cretin would vote for that shite? It isn't even the best Guinness advert, let alone the best 'paid promotion of goods, services, companies and ideas by an identified sponsor' of all time.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by ben: what a load of wank
An even larger load of wank would be the fact that you all watch these adverts willingly. Nobody's making you watch them ya know. Turn off the tv. Problem solved. Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
I don't know which agency Guinness uses, but it is quite witty. I like the recent series of adverts for Guinness Cold or whatever it's called, which basically recycled existing concepts with the extra-added-cold bit. I particularly like the Eskimo dancing, but then I always had a soft spot for the original version.
Posted by squeegy (Member # 136) on :
ralph : insightful
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
also: writing 'Eskimo dancing' now means that I have 'Domino Dancing' by the Pet Shop Boys stuck on mental loop :curses:
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
H1ppy, I think it's Abbot Mead Vickers, who are massive.
Posted by sabian (Member # 6) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: The Honda advert will never be bettered.
is that the one where the terrorists pull up and blew themselves up, but the car is so good it doesn't blow up?
cuz that one rocked... so did the ford [i think] one where the sun roof decapitated the cat.... class!
edit pda posting in the cold make post like fuck
[ 25.10.2005, 08:48: Message edited by: sabian ]
Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
You got yourself a PDA dude? Ace! What did you get?
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
No the one where all the little bits of car all move along in a sequence, over ramps and stuff.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
The one Sabian is talking about was for Volkswagen. Ringo, the one you're talking about is called Cog.
Ben, the new Guinness advert is here. Whaddya think?
Benway is right - their agency is AMV BBDO who have held the account for years, and also, the Sony ad is so unbelievably beautiful that it will overcome all your fear of advertising. It's just genuinely clever and genuinely cool to look at.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
Oh, and Sabian my mate made the cat one - Ford were NOT happy... Posted by ben (Member # 13) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: An even larger load of wank would be the fact that you all watch these adverts willingly. Nobody's making you watch them ya know. Turn off the tv. Problem solved.
So - what? - you watch tv poised with your remote, ready to switch off at the merest threat of an advert? And when you walk down the street, do you clap your hands to your eyes whenever a billboard or a poster hoves into view?
I can't believe I'm hearing such bullshit. What did I do to deserve to be bullshat like this?
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
Just don't read it ben. I can't believe that you sit there reading all this bullshit, and then complain about it.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: Oh, and Sabian my mate made the cat one - Ford were NOT happy...
Not officially happy. But I bet they secretly weren't too upset about all that free publicity.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by ben: So - what? - you watch tv poised with your remote, ready to switch off at the merest threat of an advert?
Watch tv??? Why on earth would I do that? You're having a go at me, aren't you?
Posted by sabian (Member # 6) on :
quote:Originally posted by Waynster: You got yourself a PDA dude? Ace! What did you get?
Dude, check your gmail from like 4 weeks ago! I got the M2000
Those things I was sending you to in yer gmail... I have more (4.5gb) of them if you so desire.
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: Oh, and Sabian my mate made the cat one - Ford were NOT happy...
Shhh... From what I heard, Ford are 'looking' for them! Though, this was a few months ago so they probably already found them and gave them a smack!
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
That'll be the Orange version of the one I've got (O2 XDAIIi) then Sab. If it's anything like mine, you'll like it for a while, then get sick of the fact it crashes all the time.
That 'cog' advert, the full version, is probably the best advert ever made, for numerous reasons.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
quote:Originally posted by sabian: Shhh... From what I heard, Ford are 'looking' for them! Though, this was a few months ago so they probably already found them and gave them a smack!
No they aren't. They know exactly who it was, as they'd already commissioned the one where the pigeon gets booted out of the sky.
Posted by statist (Member # 806) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: There could be only two reasons for statist asking a question like that:
1.) He doesn't know how promotion works (unlikely)
or
2.) He wants to say in so many words "Look at me everyone! I am so cutting edge cool I have heard of this song years ago and liked it so much then but it's fucking rubbish now everyone is listening to it. Kneel beneath your musical god. If I'm still into kneeling by the time this post goes out that is"
or
3.) He doesn't live in the same place as you lot. Instead he lives in the same place (well, same country anyway) as Jose Gonzales (and the Knife, for that matter) and has a slightly different history with certain musicians. I'm really not sure I meant any of those words, NWOD, but it's nice to have your input.
Maybe I should have considered this before I bothered. Sorry Scrawney.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
Hey
I wasn't having a go! Just pointing out that the song is indeed being rereleased (and I too had it before the ad )
Posted by statist (Member # 806) on :
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: I wasn't having a go! Just pointing out that the song is indeed being rereleased (and I too had it before the ad )
No, I realise you weren't. Although, I have to confess, it was more of an apology to add to the point, rather than a genuine apology.
FWIW, I don't actually have a copy of it and apart from maybe some MP3 somewhere, I don't think I ever did. I will say that once, for about a whole week, all anyone in Sweden could say was "Hej, Jose Gonzales has made a cover of Heartbeats. And it's, like, better than the original!".
As it happens, I didn't know it was being re-released I don't know promotion works.
Posted by Carter (Member # 426) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: That 'cog' advert, the full version, is probably the best advert ever made, for numerous reasons.
It totally ripped off a ?Swedish? short film called Chain Reaction, which is the same thing but with chemical processes and physics and stuff. They used to show it at school and it was my favourite thing ever after Jet Set Willy and cricket.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
No, it's very clever because every part shown is a part of the product they're selling, and it shows off many of the features of the car, such as electronic rain sensors, keyless entry, etc, but also demonstrates the quality of engineering and the expertise of Honda engineers, while also being absolutely fascinating to watch, and doubly amazing that it was all done for real with no CGI or camera tricks. The theme of chain reactions has been covered by many people, this is just a particularly good example. Not to mention the fact it's absolutely brilliant marketing.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I really like the nate night Hyundai advert where the girls are lezzing up in the carpark, and the whole place turns into a studio 54-esque rollerdisco, only all the people are different kind of animals. Those two girls are hot, with nice boobs.
Posted by ben (Member # 13) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: Not to mention the fact it's absolutely brilliant marketing.
What's it for again?
Posted by ben (Member # 13) on :
Also: that car ad with the Transformers-style robot in it - when the mini-sequel to it comes on I always double-take when it checks the soles of its feet for dogshit.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
quote:Originally posted by ben: What's it for again?
That mid range Honda people carrier thing. I haven't bothered remembering the name because frankly the car is pretty unexciting, but the product (well, bits of it) are in shot throughout the entire advert, and demonstrates a number of the car's features. I don't see how you could say it was anything other than brilliant marketing. Certainly better than bouncing a load of balls down a hill which is pretty but has little or no relation to the actual product.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: I don't see how you could say it was anything other than brilliant marketing.
So brilliant that it left you unable to remember the name of the vehicle? I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but isn't marketing supposed to make people remember the name of the product you're trying to sell them?
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
Scrawny? Can you shed some light on this?
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph:
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: I don't see how you could say it was anything other than brilliant marketing.
So brilliant that it left you unable to remember the name of the vehicle? I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but isn't marketing supposed to make people remember the name of the product you're trying to sell them?
No.
In the instance of car advertising it's more about re-assuring people that they've made the correct decision about their car after they've purchased it, so that the next time they come to buy a car they'll remember the positive experience they had buying their car and then having the Ad massage them into thinking they're smart, or cool, or sexy and popular, or sophisticated and exciting, and therefore they'll continue to buy the same brand of car.
So Ringo's right in claiming that the ad is 'brilliant marketing'. It presents Honda (not a specific car) as sophisticated, precise, imaginative, and well engineered. If you'd just bought one, and saw this ad that everyone was talking about then you'd feel a pleasant glow of satisfaction that you'd "bought into" something that was excellent, that got people talking. You'd say things like "I love me Honda, I do!" (especially if you don't really know much about cars, which most people don't), and you'd want to buy another.
So.
[ 26.10.2005, 11:02: Message edited by: Thorn Davis ]
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: So brilliant that it left you unable to remember the name of the vehicle? I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but isn't marketing supposed to make people remember the name of the product you're trying to sell them?
I remembered what the product was, and if I was the type of person to give a crap about large family vehicles, i'd probably turn to Honda because of the engineering quality. As I said above, I don't remember the name because it's not the kind of car I'm interested in.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
Thanks for the explanation. As I stated, I'm no expert.
Lovely to see you again.
[ 26.10.2005, 11:00: Message edited by: ralph ]
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
What is the selling point for the bouncy ball ad?
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
I think you're meant to see it and think "Wow, if only I was watching this on one of those new-fangled colour teleboxes I keep hearing about"
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: "Wow, if only I was watching this on one of those new-fangled colour teleboxes I keep hearing about"
I was thinking this. But it would be really ironic if you still only had a black and white tv with an aerial stuck in the top. Or had an all over head cast from an industrial accident, with only enough room for the tears to escape onto your collar. I suppose it's the message and not the medium. Well it is the medium but I think a visual message. Ok, well I think I understand anyway.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
It's not a very good message. Unless the ad will have the caption "This would look well better on one of our new Sony TVs!" otherwise there's really nothing to distinguish this Sony TV from any other on the market. They seem to be pitching the fact it's a colour television. Like when Samsung had that really flashy ad campaign with that woman walking through a giant futuristic laundrette with male models swimming in the washing machines, and then chooses one while shunning the others. The whole ad campaign was based around the fact they'd added a seperate screen so you could see who was calling you. A feature which had been commonplace on like every other mobile phone since they were even invented. They might as well have simply had their logo with the caption "Look! our phones aren't shit any more!". I bet someone got paid loads for that too. Scrawny?
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
The endline for this Sony ad is 'Colour Like No Other'. It's worked already, in that you guys haven't even seen it and are already discussing the brand. When the making of something as mundane as a TV ad becomes a talking point in itself, that's clever marketing. And also - it is that good. It's really that good. I'd be interested to know whether you still think it's not that great a creative/marketing/execution when the full length versino hits the screens. I suspect they're going to sell a shitload of tellies.
Also - marketing now is more about interaction with the brand itself, which is why car marketing tends to be les specific to the model and more about a general love for the brand - Citroen's dancing robot, BMW's The Hire, the Honda Cog and Grr adverts (which is great because it made a memorable feature out of the fact the car was a diesel), the VW singing in the rain ad (also smart because it took the premise of an old classic - the golf - being updated - unusually memorable for both brand and model).
The Sony ad, on the other hand. I have no particular love for Sony, but my GOD I love that advert.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I bet it's not as good as the Hyundai one with the boobs and lezzing up.
Posted by omikin (Member # 37) on :
they should do more ads like that one.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
Oh - and I am happy this morning as I just got sent a whole load of bouncy balls from the set today. Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
This morning I got sent a letter from my landlord and a brochure from an online computer store, so I guess you win this time. Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
That's a lie, sorry. I was just trying to glam myself up a bit. I got the brochure on Monday.
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: It's worked already, in that you guys haven't even seen it and are already discussing the brand. When the making of something as mundane as a TV ad becomes a talking point in itself, that's clever marketing.
Look, kids, at how the Marketing Man laughs at you. Even slagging off his product without having seen it gives him a little pre-cum judder.
I shall flick over at the first sight of this wankery, not think about it, not mention it and watch more telly in my room, which isn't a Sony. See, I'm winning.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I downloaded that tune by Gonzales, and I didn't like it. If you recall me talking about Kerouac as the kind of guy who'd play guitar by the beach bonfire all night, just so he could bone your girlfriend when you've passed out, then THAT is the music that he would play to convince your girlfriend that he is soulful and meaningful man. He ends up looking like some kind of exotic world wandering prince, whereas you are just a vacuous piece of shit who's idea of a romantic tune is farting Fat Les' vindaloo over the PA at your local karaoke night.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
sorry, I went all 'Men behaving badly' there for a second. Word on the street: Retro ironic retro-male is going to be the next big thing.
[ 27.10.2005, 06:51: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by squeegy (Member # 136) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: sorry, I went all 'Men behaving badly' there for a second. Word on the street: Retro ironic retro-male is going to be the next big thing.
I knew my time would come.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess:
I shall flick over at the first sight of this wankery.
You'd be missing out.
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
I may be from Dorset, but I have seen bright colours before.
Posted by squeegy (Member # 136) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: I may be from Dorset, but I have seen bright colours before.
lol
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
I don't see how it's particularly good marketing to be honest. Very fancy and arty maybe but what's it got to do with the product or even the brand? Don't get me wrong, I like Sony products, I always have, but this is just bewildering. Surely the average person is a little more intelligent than to gawp at the TV going "ooooh pretty colours, must buy sony telly". Sure we may be talking about it, but most of us are talking about what a poor advert it is. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's lovely to watch, but... bouncing balls down a street is good marketing now? Sounds like you've been suckered by one too many wanky corporate advertising campaigns.
Posted by vikram (Member # 98) on :
i bought a tv the other day and wasn't sure whether to get the sony one or the samsung. and i just thought, with sony it was like meh. they need to sort their shit out.
Posted by vikram (Member # 98) on :
has anyone seen the ad where the photocopier robot attacks a nice japachinese secretary? it's for paper i think. i like that ad.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
boobs?
Posted by vikram (Member # 98) on :
prolly in bad taste
[ 27.10.2005, 09:37: Message edited by: vikram ]
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
Advertising does work, that’s why people invest millions in it. This is a good example of advertising done well – it got people talking before the film even made it to the edit room, it’s caused a load of buzz around it, it’s got a great soundtrack which will probably do wonders for the career of the guy singing and it looks like art. This is despite the company and the agency spending practically nothing on promoting the campaign itself – all word of mouth. This whole ‘la la laaa marketers are evil adverts are boring oh no they won’t be suckering me into buying any of that shit’ is kind of pathetic. VP, I’m sure you’ve seen pretty colours before, but blanket cynicism is so exhausting. It’s a beautiful film – just because it was funded to promote a TV doesn’t mean it’s not an enjoyable viewing experience in its own right.
Within the next ten years, everything will be branded. Music has already gone, and brands (Motorola, Absolut, Sprite) are conquering the art space. Cinema is branded. TV is branded. Any kind of life experience will soon have a logo attached to it. This is not necessarily a good thing, but it does mean if you continue to turn your back on everything that has been funded by anyone with a registered trademark, you will be forced to gouge your own eyes out and live in a tree.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
scrawny is totally evil these days. This is what happens when you live in Balham, people.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
I know. The man got me.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
he sure did. Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I keep expecting you to to ask us about Bacardi Spice.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: Within the next ten years, everything will be branded.
Any kind of life experience will soon have a logo attached to it.
I don't know... sex? Going for a run? Stroking a cat? Standing in the rain? Blanket cynicism is one naive extreme, but you're sounding like someone from bad science fiction.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
But Scrawny, it's just a pretty video with the name of a product attached. No matter how artful or wanky it might be, it's not good marketing, because it says nothing about the brand or the product. Do you see what I'm driving at here? Can you understand why I think this (probably very entertaining and amazing) piece of video does not constitute good marketing?
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
Fair enough, although the reach of the adman’s dollar is extraordinary.
Please note before Benway hangs himself that I didn’t say this was a good thing – I just acknowledged that it is a thing at all. Admittedly my post was more of a reaction to the ‘blanket cynicism’ to which I referred, which makes me cross. It’s a cultural phenomenon, just like comics, or a new wave of music, and not a new one at that – the launch of a new Levi’s commercial in the 90s was a pop culture landmark. If I piped up on a thread about comics saying ‘all comics are crap and boring GOD you people make me sick I don’t understand how you can be interested in them GOD are you MENTAL or something’ I would be quite rightly accused of being God’s Plumber and shat on from a great height. Also, it’s not like I actively sought out this information – it’s what I do for a living, not some obscure hobby by which I attempt to get everyone else involved in the wonder that is marketing and persuade them to buy things they don’t really need. It’s not realistic to assume that you can avoid all marketing messages – they are and always have been part of life. As Ringo said, people can make their own minds up. But as I have no plans to buy a Sony TV, I don’t see anything wrong with appreciating something done well which is visually intriguing in its own right. Hurray! I was not suckered! I outwitted the evil marketer yet again! And I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Whassup with that?
Ringo - that Honda ad of which you are so fond is just a pretty film with a brand attached, based around a simple idea that demonstrated the functions of the thing it was advertising. They work in the same way.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
Ringo, what are you trying to say? What are you getting at here?
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
But 'Cog' showed parts of the product through the entire length of the advert and actually showed you the following features of the car (which I can remember, there were probably more) - keyless entry, automatic rain sensing window wipers, 12 speaker audio system, and pushbutton boot hatch control. Plus it demonstrated the precision with which the car was engineered, a testament to the quality of Honda cars and the ability of thier engineers - as they put it "Isn't it great when things just... work?"
[ 28.10.2005, 06:46: Message edited by: Ringo ]
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I pretty much dislike all adverts apart from the Hyundai one. With the lezzing up. Oh, and Barry Scott is alright. And, as much as Worhol et al fucked about with the boundaries between art and advertising, it's kidding yourself to believe there's anything meaningful or worthy in the cold hard manipulative sell. Adverts are false almost by definition.
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
I am quite happy snuggled up under my cynicism blanket glaring out at the world. Yes, adverts are almost everywhere, and yes they can be very effective. Am I supposed to be pathetically grateful that once every 14 months or so an "artistic" one is presented to me in a pompous flurry of self-congratulatory fanfare?
We may well be heading for a brand-saturated future. I would imagine that the outcome will be increased annoyance at the pervasiveness of pretentious ads (ie recent H&M farce) or total indifference as the whacky/artistic concepts start to blur into one ignorable self-important fuzz.
I either flick to another channel (and watch anything for 3 minutes), go for a slash or make a drink when the ads are on. Not to be deliberately anti-the man or anything, I just find ads boring at best and fucking annoying at worst.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: No matter how artful or wanky it might be, it's not good marketing, because it says nothing about the brand or the product.
Yes it does. It says that they're the sort of people who would take half a million bouncy balls to the top of a hill and throw them off, which is kind of cool. This whole thread started when Bill Oddie posted a link to the site and said 'Wow, this is very cool'. The pictures on this Flickr site are also kind of cool.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sepiatone/sets/720725/ OK, maybe it doesn't work for you, but some of that cool has to rub off somewhere, right? You can see how it would work for some people, right? Do you see what I'm driving at here?
I seem to have ended up defending the entire advertising industry here, which I'm not altogether keen to do given that it's mostly populated by wankers who are infecting me with their wankiness. Soon I won't be able to describe a human emotion without using the word 'product'. The point is, I'm not trying to argue that it means anything, just that it's gorgeous and people seem to like it.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: Am I supposed to be pathetically grateful that once every 14 months or so an "artistic" one is presented to me in a pompous flurry of self-congratulatory fanfare?
No. It's just pretty. Worth a watch.
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: I either flick to another channel (and watch anything for 3 minutes), go for a slash or make a drink when the ads are on. Not to be deliberately anti-the man or anything, I just find ads boring at best and fucking annoying at worst.
Fair enough, and like I said, I'm not attempting to defend the entire industry as much of what it churns out IS fucking annoying. I just can't see the benefit of shutting your eyes and making your mind up before you've even seen something.
Posted by dance margarita (Member # 848) on :
like veep i have a tendency to flick over and watch absolutely anything else really absolutely anything even snooker when the ads come on nowadays. if you dont, then you are running the risk off watching something akin to the payoff for the cleansing balm looroll where the lady says 'what, for my bottom?'.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
Come on Scrawny, keep going! I think you're doing great. Here's another attack on you/the world of advertising ---> This bouncy ball thing is cool in the way that Steve "The merciless" Jobs says the lastest Ipod Nano is cool, ie, it's corporate cool, cool as in "efficient" and "useful" and "cash cow". Not actually cool.
Although, 'cool' is quite an interesting and difficult concept when it comes to advertising. As soon as somebody like Jobs tells the world that something is cool, that seems to instantly make it not cool. Same with Mr. Gates, who pioneered the technique of replacing 'good' with 'cool'. Scrawny here is telling the audience that chucking a load of balls down a hill is cool. The audience doesn't seem convinced. Why is this. I think it's because cool is such a difficult and personal thing to try and describe. Or at least, we are lead to believe that it's personal, that by finding and identifying with things that are cool, we ourselves become cooler. But most of the time, we are told what's cool by the use of fairly obvious signifiers, for instance, Levis sponsoring a self-consciously 'cool' musical performance.
The word is used so much now, but I'm not sure exactly what it means. Like, a Levis ad would seem to be the definition of something that is not cool because it tries so hard to be cool, but can it surpass this by the use of cool imagery? Can a company become cool? Google seemed to manage it for a while, but it's going the same way as microsoft now. I'm sure that Scrawny knows all about this kind of thing. I just see the list of "top ten brands" in Metro once a year, and have a little cry on the inside, before checking my Orange phone (always highly placed - the coolest brand of telecoms provider for twenty something londoners), burning my mouth on my Starbucks, and then stroking my Harley Davidson cock.
I tend to waver a little bit in my understanding of cool. I'm not really sure what it is anymore, so I've kind of dropped out of the game a little bit. I'll spend £100 on a fashionable pair of jeans, but is this cool? Is this more or less cool than finding a pair of fashionable jeans for £5, and customising them. I would say, the latter is cooler, but it is clearly trying to be cool. So, it's only cool if it appears effortless. Diesel are probably one of the brands that most visibly chases a classic definition of cool - the James Dean aloofness mixed in with Jet Set European style, but is it cool to pay £100 for a pair of jeans? OR is the cool part having so much money that £100 isn't a lot of money.
Lol, I could just talk to myself for ever about this.
Sorry Scrawny. But, you are still evil - a shell of your former self.
[ 28.10.2005, 07:52: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: I just can't see the benefit of shutting your eyes and making your mind up before you've even seen something.
Well, firstly this is an effective method of infuriating people that I have been employing since I was old enough to refuse food that I didn't like the look of. Secondly, it is the fact that I'm expected to be part of this "buzz" surrounding the ad, and engaging in "water cooler conversations" that automatically triggers a contrariness response that results in aggressive dismissal of the object in question.
I stand by this defence mechanism, as most weird-looking foods are weird (when 5 of the world's top dishes/snacks are derived from the humble potato, why look further afield?), and things that sound a bit wanky usually are. I think we all know who's won here.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
Scrawny and her nefarious hoard of Evil has won - she has won the soul of humanity, and put it up for sale
[ 28.10.2005, 07:59: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I think that you two should get it on. That would be cool.
[ 28.10.2005, 08:02: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
Some of those flickr pictures are lovely, and I especially like them having been on or near that hill in August. I would like them if someone told me it was an "art project" instead of an "advert", too. Maybe there's not that much difference; artists are brands too.
I think it's possible to celebrate an appreciation of the images and idea behind this advertisement from one's feelings about advertising as a whole.
I agree it's oddly, wrongly hot to see two fit girls arguing one-on-one, online.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
The artist as brand? Yeah, I can kind of dig that. Is suppose then you may as well call all art 'product', because even if it's not sold, it can still being in cultural capital, like Banky's street pictures. I suppose artists turn out plenty pieces purely for cash. But, they aren't trying to make you buy something with their product - the product sells itself to a degree. The concept is the purpose of the thing. Advertising is about selling something else, so in itself, it is meaningless. Whatever concept it appears to have is just a distraction, a sleight of hand. The experience of being advertised to isn't as fufilling as consuming culture on your own terms.
I'm talking shit here.
[ 28.10.2005, 08:31: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by OJ (Member # 752) on :
quote:Originally posted by scrawny:
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: No matter how artful or wanky it might be, it's not good marketing, because it says nothing about the brand or the product.
Yes it does. It says that they're the sort of people who would take half a million bouncy balls to the top of a hill and throw them off, which is kind of cool. This whole thread started when Bill Oddie posted a link to the site and said 'Wow, this is very cool'. The pictures on this Flickr site are also kind of cool.
Those pictures are good. But still, no it bloody well doesn't.
Just because the art is good, by whatever criteria you choose to use to judge it, doesn't make Sony cool because they're the kind of people who like it.
It just makes them the kind of corporation who can afford to buy the art/the artist. Just like not so long ago they would've been falling over themselves to buy the cheesy girl in bikini holding their product whilst lolling on a car bonnet. Or whatever. Cos they're the kind of people who get to hang out with girls like that.
Are we really this stupid?
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
Ringo, you're missing the point. They didn't 'buy' the artist or the art, they created it. It's something they did for themselves. No artistic integrity is for sale here - it's just an ad. They're not infringing on anything you hold sacred. They've just created something entertaining in the hope that you'll like it.
I totally agree with Kovacs that you can distance your enjoyment for the ad from the product itself, like I said, I'm not going to buy a TV because of it, but people who are in the market for a TV might look at the ad and say hey, that looks kind of cool. Maybe we'll get that one.
And Benway, the fact that audiences are now much more difficult to reach because of media fragmentation computer games the internet blah blah blah means that most brands are now attempting to engage with potential consumers in an entertaining way - in a way which means the consumer gets something from the experience, whether it's a gig, or a TV channel, or a free mobile download, or a party. Yes, underneath it all, it's still a cold hard sell, but you don't have to buy into it. You can just take the fun and run. Doesn't mean you're selling out.
Somehow arguing with you guys isn't as fun as arguing with VP. Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
yeah, that was sexy.
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: I'm sure that Scrawny knows all about this kind of thing.
Oy! Bitch.
quote: Sorry Scrawny. But, you are still evil - a shell of your former self.
No I'm not, I just have a different job. C'moooon, I haven't posted for ages. Allow me to get involved in a debate about which I actually know something for once.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: Ringo, you're missing the point. They didn't 'buy' the artist or the art, they created it. It's something they did for themselves. No artistic integrity is for sale here - it's just an ad. They're not infringing on anything you hold sacred. They've just created something entertaining in the hope that you'll like it.
Nono it is you that is missing the point. I never said the advert wasn't clever, or arty, or really entertaining, or visually stunning. It could be 30 seconds of sheer rapture, a mechanical hand could spring from the screen and wank me into a coma, but it still doesn't mean it's good marketing. Because at no point between mechanical tugs would the thought actually cross my mind to buy the product which is being advertised. And as amazing and life changing an experience watching this advert may be, if it doesn't encourage me to take an interest in the product, how could this be construed as great marketing?
I say: It isn't. And let's face it, the more you've been talking about it, the more you've steered towards the principle that it's ok to simply enjoy the entertainment factor of the clip, and not worry about the product whatsoever. So you yourself have really admitted that the advert fails in the principle point of any advert - to actually make you want to buy something.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
like Sony's new Bravia TV? I can see your game, sister. Are you part of a crack team of "awakeners", shaping the information environment to allow maximum infection from viral marketing outbreaks? With surgical precision and virtual omnipresence, you impregnate us with ideas, thoughts, the seeds of concepts, so that our desires grow over time, putting down roots into the freudian depths of our personalities. One minute, we're sitting at home, resting. But then in a heartbeat, we're signing a credit agreement in Comet, with no idea what we're even buying. Like on that episode of Futurama with the chronotons.
[ 28.10.2005, 09:06: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
Sorry Scrawny, I'm not trying to be difficult or argue with you for the sake of it, I just think you've been a little taken in by all the flashy stuff and kinda lost sight of what advertising's all about. I'm just trying to make you see my point of view and I dont' think you're really getting it, because you seem to think I'm criticising the artfulness of the advert itself, which I'm honestly not.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
To be fair, ringers, I don't think you're getting it.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
You'll get it if you're not careful Benway Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
no, you will.
The advert is causing an association in your mind between something that you have enjoyed and their brand name. It's more subtle that just going "buy our shit". And it makes the company as a whole look good to consumers and other companies. It's about image projection and it's about callous emotional hijacking. But you're just going to say something about me not getting your point, right? And something about being wanked off by a robot? Go on, say it. If you were wanked off by your TV every time you saw an advert for a brand of ice cream, when shopping for ice cream, your brain would naturally try to maximise your pleasure, and the memory of the masturbation would stir something. But the clever part is that you wouldn't even know this happening, because you have been brainwashed by this crude sexual manipulation.
I know, because I supposedly did a module in 'social psychology'. Bet you feel small now, eh?
[ 28.10.2005, 09:16: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
Perhaps the advert just isn't designed for me since I already like Sony's products and don't need any convincing that they're any good.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
as thr0n pointed out, the advert will then reassure you that your continued support of Sony is a wise move. It doesn't matter what you 'think', because this shit all goes on in the subconscious.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
But Thorn's point had nothing to do with your subconscious, he was just saying that every time you see an advert for a product you've bought which shows that product in a positive light, it makes you feel good about your purchase. In fact I think he said this was the only point of adverts. So I don't think you and Thorn were really saying the same thing there.
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: the advert fails in the principle point of any advert - to actually make you want to buy something.
No, it hasn't failed, because we're talking about it. This is apparently as equally important as direct sales impact, although presumably less easy for the Marketings to quantify and put on pie charts.
I think this is what rankles the most; that I'm passively part of something that's being triumphantly branded a "cultural phenomenen".
I hate Guinness. I hate the sluggish, dirty look of it, the smell of it, the fact that it took ages to pour when I worked in a bar and people would always order it last. I hate the way that Guinness have taken it upon themselves to sponsor St Patrick's Day and present their product as quintessentially Oirish. However, I remember their ads quite well and know that the horsey one was voted Bestest Ever. Although not a penny of my money has ever gone their way, I'm somehow a part of their success just by remembering the ad (helped of course because it had purty horseys in it).
I don't particularly hate Sony; I've always had a Sony walkman, and I know their products are generally renowned for being of good quality (not sure if this is still true). The ad may well be visually pleasing, if I ever catch it. I just object to being classed as part of "the buzz" by people who have trendier jobs than me.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
VP, I don't want to rot this thread but I would be very interested to read a post from you on why you like horses. I am serious -- I don't "get" love of horses myself, though I'm not scornful of the idea and I'm not a hater of horses, and as you seem passionate about them it would be fascinating to know what it is you see in them, and when you first felt this way, and how this love manifests itself in your day to day life.
I thought of starting a thread to ask, but it seemed a bit specific. I was then going to make it a general "ask a forumite something" thread, but that seemed a bit of a weak rationale.
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs:
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: Within the next ten years, everything will be branded.
Any kind of life experience will soon have a logo attached to it.
I don't know... sex? Going for a run? Stroking a cat? Standing in the rain? Blanket cynicism is one naive extreme, but you're sounding like someone from bad science fiction.
I wouldn't rule it out. Arguing that universal (or common) life experiences can't be trademarked is great from a perspective of good old common sense but unfortunately this trait is very infrequently applied to modern jurisprudence.
There are examples where things have gone right, as in the refusal to grant trademark protection to the smell of strawberries. But colors, sounds and smells have been allowed as trademarks in various jurisdictions, and with the increasing globalisation of trademark practice, the trends toward harmonisation would seem to lead us down the path toward more, not less, of these sorts of nontraditional brands/trademarks in the future.
The smell of freshly cut grass as a trademark for tennis balls
The taste of liquorice is registered as a trademark on the Benelux register
Sound trademarks have been common, from jingles for Deutsche Telekom in Europe to the three note NBC radio/television identifier in the US
So, it's possible that we could see experiential trademarks. For example, the sensation of running while wearing a particular running shoe. Or the sensation, smell or taste of sex with a particular condom, instrument, lubricant, mechanical device, etc.
So, call us today to try the Furtastic 4000™, it'll forever change the way you stroke your pussy.
Could happen.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by froopyscot: So, it's possible that we could see experiential trademarks. For example, the sensation of running while wearing a particular running shoe. Or the sensation, smell or taste of sex with a particular condom, instrument, lubricant, mechanical device, etc.
So, call us today to try the Furtastic 4000™, it'll forever change the way you stroke your pussy.
Could happen.
If I don't use any of those aids and devices, though, the only things involved are the human bodies of me and my partner -- I think you'd have trouble branding that. Yes, I'm sure we can think of sub-Judge Dredd nonsense about how a mega-corporation could brand the human body, and even find exceptional examples where someone's licensed their breasts for advertising, but be realistic.
Similarly, I don't think anyone's going to trademark the exact way sunlight falls into my study, or the burn and rush of finishing a good fitness session. The trainers I wear to run are branded, but I don't honestly know what brand they are, and I could do the same thing in them if they were unbranded. I think there's a limit to the ownership of human experience.
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: Similarly, I don't think anyone's going to trademark the exact way sunlight falls into my study, or the burn and rush of finishing a good fitness session. The trainers I wear to run are branded, but I don't honestly know what brand they are, and I could do the same thing in them if they were unbranded. I think there's a limit to the ownership of human experience.
Sure, there are limits - but I would expect savvy (or smarmy) marketers to continue to push the bounds of what's acceptable and possible. Again, to use your examples, the way sunlight falls into your study might not be "trademarkable" except as it relates to the revolutionary window panes developed by some corporation which create a unique play to the light. And the burning flushed exhilerated feeling at the end of a workout session may not be a trademark except as it relates to the particular and unique sensation created by some revolutionary computer controlled piece of exercise equipment.
Naturally, with any trademark issue, there has to be some product or service involved; that said, if a product can induce or be associated with a particular and replicatable set of stimuli (smells, appearance, whatever), then I can't see any reason why the company behind it wouldn't eventually seek to protect that experience as unique to their product.
Let's take something as 'natural' as eating an apple. It doesn't seem out of the realm of likelihood that we could see a patented genetically engineered tree that produces a fruit which delivers a uniquely crisp, trademarked 'snap' when bitten, or a particular color to its skin.
And then, once the first apple variety is trademarked, wouldn't all the other apple producers seek protection in turn for their products?
Seems more present-day than judge dredd to me, actually.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by froopyscot: the way sunlight falls into your study might not be "trademarkable" except as it relates to the revolutionary window panes developed by some corporation which create a unique play to the light. And the burning flushed exhilerated feeling at the end of a workout session may not be a trademark except as it relates to the particular and unique sensation created by some revolutionary computer controlled piece of exercise equipment.
But as you did with "sex", you're pointing out that these experiences could involve some hardware that could be branded and trademark-protected. My point is that these experiences work just fine and beautifully without those products. I don't care what trainers I run in. I can have sex without any commercial aid. The light is glorious though my windows are grubby and old. You can find some way that a savvy adman could try to grab a bit of that action, but equally it would be very easy to resist that branding, and the experience would still work.
quote:Let's take something as 'natural' as eating an apple. It doesn't seem out of the realm of likelihood that we could see a patented genetically engineered tree that produces a fruit which delivers a uniquely crisp, trademarked 'snap' when bitten, or a particular color to its skin.
I could still experience, enjoy and prefer an apple I picked in a forest though, couldn't I? That a branded product exists doesn't mean the experience as a whole has been purchased by a company and that it's impossible to have that pleasure without being part of a brand. High-tech and high-fashion swimming trunks exist. That doesn't mean the companies producing them have ownership of the pleasure I might get from walking into the sea.
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: VP, I don't want to rot this thread but I would be very interested to read a post from you on why you like horses. I am serious -- I don't "get" love of horses myself, though I'm not scornful of the idea and I'm not a hater of horses, and as you seem passionate about them it would be fascinating to know what it is you see in them, and when you first felt this way, and how this love manifests itself in your day to day life.
I thought of starting a thread to ask, but it seemed a bit specific. I was then going to make it a general "ask a forumite something" thread, but that seemed a bit of a weak rationale.
But on TMO there is no smelly, pus-filled thread "rot". There is only the natural progression of conversation evolving under different conditions.
I like horses in a different way aged 27 than I did as a 13 year old, obviously. I don't come from a horsy family, but my parents are both seriously soft in the head when it comes to animals (well, cats). I don't know why I started focussing on horses, but I definitely did a project on them at age 9/10 and started riding at 11. From 11-14/15 I was a classic Pony-teen and bought pony magazines, drew ponies all the time, read and re-read pony books avidly. It was an important part of my bus route to Middle School to look out for the two ponies in the field opposite the Willet Arms, and occasionally ones in Stour Field. During this period all my birthday cards would feature ponies.
It is very difficult to say what the appeal was and is; I just find horses aesthetically beautiful. I was always interested in the different breeds around the world, and I liked the fact that your interest could splinter in so many different directions: showjumping, racing, dressage, breeding etc.
I don't get much chance to ride anymore, but I still follow racing keenly. I am interested in patterns of famous bloodlines and the dramatic extremes of the racing industry- the lads shovelling shit for £130 per week to those who casually pay 3/4 million for a nice-looking son of Saddlers Wells. One of my options on completing my BSc is an MSc in Equine Science at the Vets School at Edinburgh, with a view to working in the racing industry.
A popular horse called Grey Abbey is running this Saturday and is a joy to watch- an exuberant jumping front-runner who hammers his rivals into the ground, much like Desert Orchid used to. It will be on Channel 4 at around 15.30 or so if you would like to take a look.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
Thanks VP You seem to have posted at 4.15 recommending a TV show at 3.30.
Can I ask you a bit more. When you were a horse-loving teenager, were you aware of fitting into a common category of girls-who-love-horses? I mean it's almost a stereotype, isn't it. ETA did you "graduate" to horses, from ponies, as you got older?
And: you like LOTR partly for the horses, right? Do you go to see historical/fantasy adventure films because you expect they'll have horses in? How about films like Seabiscuit?
And: don't you feel the same about any other animals? (eg... cats.)
I know it sounds like I'm interrogating but that is just my way It is interesting to hear.
[ 28.10.2005, 11:22: Message edited by: kovacs ]
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Are you becoming aroused, Kovacs?
Posted by SilverGinger5 (Member # 49) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: You seem to have posted at 4.15 recommending a TV show at 3.30.
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: A popular horse called Grey Abbey is running this Saturday
[ 28.10.2005, 11:42: Message edited by: SilverGinger5 ]
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
I said the race is on this Saturday. Not sure of the exact time though.
That is an interesting question about ponies--->horses though. Younger kids generally ride smaller animals, of course, and books aimed at the younger teens mostly focussed on ponies. Small ponies can often be very bossy and difficult to ride, and large horses can be quite placid, so one wasn't necessarily seen as more grown-up than the other.
I especially enjoyed the cavalry scenes in LOTR, because I felt they really captured how fucking terrifying a stampede of mounted soldiers is, and the skill it takes in controlling a large animal in the heat of battle. Apparently Prof Tolkien thought that the presence of a cavalry at Hastings would have swung the battle in Harold's favour, and of course hugely changed English history. I went to see Seabiscuit because I had enjoyed the book. The film was slow-paced and cheesy, but the race scenes were really well filmed. On the DVD there is an extra showing actual footage of the match race between Seabiscuit and War Admiral, which must have been utterly awesome to have seen.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
I was a betting shop manager for three years. The saddest day was when poor One Man died.
Oh, and last night I met a girl who claimed that her uncle owns Desert Orchid. She might have just been trying impress me, though.
[ 28.10.2005, 11:48: Message edited by: Roy ]
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy: She might have just been trying impress me, though.
I've got to know. If her story is true, would you be impressed?
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph:
quote:Originally posted by Roy: She might have just been trying impress me, though.
I've got to know. If her story is true, would you be impressed?
Yes, I would.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy: Yes, I would.
Why?
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph:
quote:Originally posted by Roy: Yes, I would.
Why?
Because Desert Orchid is a great horse.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy: Because Desert Orchid is a great horse.
So you're impressed by the horse, not the girl being related to the owner?
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I went horse riding. Well, I sat on a horse and the stable girl rode next to met, guiding it. My overall feeling was that it was alright, but the horse was pretty stupid. Also, when it went fast, I got my nuts pounded.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph:
quote:Originally posted by Roy: Because Desert Orchid is a great horse.
So you're impressed by the horse, not the girl being related to the owner?
No, because I could just be impressed by the horse without having to meet anyone related to the owner.
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
It's the association of greatness, innit? Makes someone more interesting. My uncles are policemen in Leicester and a civil servant in the Prisons dept. An uncle who owned one of the world's greatest racehorses would be better, see?
If it helps, Roy, Desert Orchid was owned by Richard Burridge, who lived in Yorkshire.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy: No, because I could just be impressed by the horse without having to meet anyone related to the owner.
So you'd be impressed by the girl? Because her mother or father was brother or sister to a man who owned a horse you admire? Am I the only one who thinks that's just a big pile of crap?
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: It's the association of greatness, innit? Makes someone more interesting. My uncles are policemen in Leicester and a civil servant in the Prisons dept. An uncle who owned one of the world's greatest racehorses would be better, see?
If it helps, Roy, Desert Orchid was owned by Richard Burridge, who lived in Yorkshire.
She did say 'Uncle Richard' actually, so she was telling the truth.
I'm impressed.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I'm impressed that Roy knew a girl who had a relation who may have owned desert orchid. He's just gone from 15th to 14th on my TMO league of preference - the Hall of Champions beckons! Well Done Roy
[ 28.10.2005, 11:58: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph:
quote:Originally posted by Roy: No, because I could just be impressed by the horse without having to meet anyone related to the owner.
So you'd be impressed by the girl? Because her mother or father was brother or sister to a man who owned a horse you admire? Am I the only one who thinks that's just a big pile of crap?
Stop being a knob.
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: I'm impressed that Roy knew a girl who had a relation who may have owned desert orchid. He's just gone from 15th to 14th on my TMO league of preferance - the Hall of Champions beckons!
I'm impressed that Benway's impressed.
Has anyone seen Kevin Bacon about?
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
and commiserations to OJ
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
My dad taught Latin to a greatgrandchild of JRR Tolkien.
Anyone impressed?
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: My dad taught Latin to a greatgrandchild of JRR Tolkien.
Anyone impressed?
Yes.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: My dad taught Latin to a greatgrandchild of JRR Tolkien.
Anyone impressed?
Not so much.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
To be honest, the 'impressed' part comes from the fact that her family must be well wedged up.
But you get ralph involved, and it all goes a bit kindergarten.
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: My dad taught Latin to a greatgrandchild of JRR Tolkien.
Anyone impressed?
I'm impressed if the classes were conducted in Elvish.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by froopyscot: I'm impressed if the classes were conducted in Elvish.
Sorry - he doesn't speak Elvish. He's never even been to Graceland.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy: Stop being a knob.
That's akin to telling the sky to stop being blue.
I'm not intentionally trying to be a knob, Roy. I seriously don't understand being impressed simply because a man has the means to own a particular horse. How did he become wealthy enough to afford such a purchase I wonder? Did he inherit his sizeable wealth? Did he dabble in the black market slave trade? Was he perhaps a drug kingpin? Child pornographer?
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Roy: But you get ralph involved, and it all goes a bit kindergarten.
Oh, Roy. Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: He's never even been to Graceland.
*genuine out-loud groan*
[ 28.10.2005, 12:11: Message edited by: froopyscot ]
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: Sorry Scrawny, I'm not trying to be difficult or argue with you for the sake of it, I just think you've been a little taken in by all the flashy stuff and kinda lost sight of what advertising's all about. I'm just trying to make you see my point of view and I dont' think you're really getting it, because you seem to think I'm criticising the artfulness of the advert itself, which I'm honestly not.
I see what you're saying, although this might be shutting the stable door after the horses after taken over the thread. It's not as easy for us now to relate to the relationship between ad and sales because advertising is becoming ever more subtle, and brands are more in it for the long term. I understand that you're saying the ad itself doesn't make you want to buy a TV, or consider that it would make anyone want to buy a TV, and that Sony's sales as a result of the ad won't necessarily reflect whether anyone liked it or not. However, there are hundreds of media monitoring agencies that track this kind of shit, and I'm pretty positive (as I work as part of one of them) that their return on investment will be huge. The awareness they've generated just through the making of the ad itself means that the film will have a much broader reach then it would have done if they'd just put it out on a Monday night and hoped for the best (actually going out in the four ad breaks between the Man U Chelsea game next Sunday, fact fans, in the full 2 and a half minute incarnation).
AND ANOTHER THING - oh fuck this. nice to have reasonable ruck on here again Posted by OJ (Member # 752) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: and commiserations to OJ
Erm, er, no I don't follow...
Eh what? Or rather, please explain.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
it's a humourous post, intended to generate amusement. It works like this: I said that Roy had moved from 15th to 14th place in my league, which doesn't really exist, but I'm suggesting it does, like I'm the sort of self important **** who might keep a league of posters, and feel that it has some worth. It's basically playing with my online persona - on the sneaking suspicion that I might be as arrogant as I appear to be. Anyway, after I said Well Done Roy, there's a brief pause, and then I say 'Commiserations to OJ', insinuating that Roy has just displaced you from 14th to 15th position, and in the spirit of the character, I offered commiserations. This works to strengthen the idea of my own self-importance, because it it now suggesting that you too might care about your ranking, which of course, you don't, because the whole league idea was only made up in the previous post, and doesn't really exist.
It's basically a joke with a not so good dummy punchline, and then a not so good actual punchline - which is the second post.
[ 28.10.2005, 13:22: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
you'll find that if you read my posts closely, and cross reference them with other posts that I or somebody else may have made, then there is a whole wealth of material there. Little twists and turns, mocking digs, ressurection and reference to old memes and incidents. It's a fun game, played out primarily to amuse myself, but it might be gratifying for others to find the codes and meanings that I intricately weave into my posts.
[ 28.10.2005, 13:14: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
that last post is in much the same voice as the original "Well Done Roy" post (2005) - mocking the way in which I might believe my posts to be of some kind of almost literary worth, when you and I both know, OJ, that my posts are really just hardened nuggets of self-obssesed shit.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
So am I ranked above or below roy? Posted by OJ (Member # 752) on :
D'you know, I just about worked this out just before you posted your explanation, but only just. So "doh" and double "doh" on my part.
I'll add that to the homework and Maoist self criticism I've been set for the weekend, despite not having a clue what it means. It's going to be a tall order.
By the way, you don't come across as arrogant Benway. No doubt this is your point.
eta: and you've posted twice since I began very slowly typing this so it makes very little sense. I'll add speed to my make-me-worthy-list.
[ 28.10.2005, 13:16: Message edited by: OJ ]
Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
I like Benway's deadpan sinister Stevies.
Of course, I can only assume they are delivered deadpan, in keeping with the tone of the post, like. For all I know he could be dancing, dancing and rubbing a picture of himself against his own face and laughing, laughing and singing The Laughing Policeman into his own photographic image.
Though I expect that would upset 'The Fragile Neighbour'. So probably not.
[ 28.10.2005, 13:15: Message edited by: jonesy999 ]
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
yes, I'm just fishing for compliments. Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
You're fucking brilliant!
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I'm going to send that one into "Compliment Angler Today" Magzine. It's a front pager.
Right, I'm off to set up my own forum just for me, so I can post all this shit and amuse myself without breaking perfectly good threads.
[ 28.10.2005, 13:19: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph:
quote:Originally posted by Roy: But you get ralph involved, and it all goes a bit kindergarten.
Oh, Roy.
I meant that in a kind of lovable way.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
quote:Originally posted by jonesy999: I like Benway's deadpan sinister Stevies.
In accordance with the newly instated Misc plagiary ruling, I ought to make it clear they're ripped off of another forum, wherein the posters deploy them as friendly homage to Lee and Herring. See also: 'I see what you did there and it was amusing'
eta: now I'm ripping off thorn! Normal service will be resumed when I've had some sleep - exhaustion has made me delirious.
[ 28.10.2005, 14:08: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: 'I see what you did there and it was amusing'
I'm glad you confirmed that's what you were doing. It's been freaking me out.
Posted by Roy (Member # 705) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: So am I ranked above or below roy?
You just want to be on top of me, don't you?
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: I seriously don't understand being impressed simply because a man has the means to own a particular horse. How did he become wealthy enough to afford such a purchase I wonder? Did he inherit his sizeable wealth? Did he dabble in the black market slave trade? Was he perhaps a drug kingpin? Child pornographer?
You don't have to be ridiculously wealthy to own a National Hunt (jumps racing) horse. Desert Orchid was bred by Roy's friend's uncle's father, by an obscure (ie cheap) flat stallion out of an equally unfamous family-owned mare.
I'm still quite impressed by Roy's association. When are you going to impress me, ralph? Unless it's by racking up a huge post count but managing to say absolutely nothing.
Oh, I hope kovacs wasn't too disappointed if he watched the racing on Saturday. Seems like Grey Abbey was pulled up- the yard's out of form and a lot of their horses are coughing.
I think more threads should deviate onto subjects that I know lots about.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
I watched it, and was disappointed.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
I'm sorry but I was watching Vertigo I think.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
sometimes I question your devotion to this forum.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
I know what you're doing there, Benway.
Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I know what you're doing there, Benway.
I think this would make a good sequel to I Still Know What You Did Last Summer
Four teenage Benways try to cover up the fact they spent the entire summing posting on a bulletin board by killing off each member of the community in increasingly gruesome ways. The Benways think they have got away with it, believing they have convinced the world that they were actually being proactive - learning to use dreamweaver in order to maximise web based marketing potential. But later they get a strange email that says "I know what you’re doing there Benway."
SPOILER ALERT: Kovacs kills three of the four Benways with a coat hanger hook cock.
[ 31.10.2005, 05:53: Message edited by: jonesy999 ]
Posted by sabian (Member # 6) on :
<can't be bothered to read 5 pages of "I'm so bloody cultured, I don't watch adverts" to find out if anyone has posted this yet>
Just saw the advert yesterday and the sublimeness (sp?) of it makes it with the backing track makes it more enjoyable than most regular telly.
As to the greatness of "Cog", yeah it was clever... But hardly unique... Rube Goldberg did similar sequences for years and Fischli and Weiss made a 30min film called "The Way Things Go" using chemical reactions and the reactions they cause. I think you just have a hardon over it is cuz it has a car in it!
</can't be bothered to read 5 pages of "I'm so bloody cultured, I don't watch adverts" to find out if anyone has posted this yet>
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
Nice one thicko, next time try reading the thread before you open your hole.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
" "
But also to some extent because you missed what I was saying entirely, which was that the Honda advert was clever not only because the sequence was visually ver captivating, but more so as an advertising campaign it was very effective because it used parts of the product and demonstrated the quality of workmanship which goes into every vehicle, plus a few of it's most impressive added features such as the 12 speaker audio, keyless entry, blah blah blah said this all before 3 pages ago blah blah
But ffs do people really have such a shit view of me that anything I say is immediately tainted with this idea that I can't say anything of substance or merit because I'm interested in cars?
Perhaps I'm just really shit at articulating my points, because what I say makes a lot of sense to me. And I'm getting pretty tired with being scoffed at to be honest.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
and that music is only so-so.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
Why haven't I seen this advert if it was out on the 6th November. I watched TV last night and everything... that Billie Piper show. I still didn't see it.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
It's not on yet as far as I know. But I only watch Speed Auction TV, so I'm probably out of the loop as well.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
Surely it can be... "downloaded".
Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
That Billy Piper thing was on BBC, Kovacs.
You knew that, didn't you?
I am the Stevie X.
[ 08.11.2005, 06:25: Message edited by: jonesy999 ]
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
What's your point here, Jonesy.
Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
I see what you're doing there Kovacs.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
God it's all been done before hasn't it Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
I went on a stag do recently and, as is often the case during such occasions, a few stag memes were forged and passed around. Some were clever, others less so. One of the assembled company has been working in New York for the last couple of years. Every time he opened his mouth to mention the USA a chorus of "Earrrrd it!" would ring out. This basic pisstake was taken up by the group until it seemed that every time anyone opened their mouth about anything at all they were shouted down by 15 menboys shouting "Earrrd it!" (I didn't say it was clever).
Is that what TMO has got to look forward to? Every set up followed by a knowing "Ah, yes, the 2003 651st post by Frank. I see what you're doing there Jonesy."
[ 08.11.2005, 07:06: Message edited by: jonesy999 ]
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
I saw this advert twice in the cinema today and recognised it from the first guitar notes as I'd already downloaded the song (pan-media marketing)... and it felt immediately good and familiar. Seeing the old Coit Tower in the background gave me a little lump in my throat that even the corny shot of a slomo frog leaping from a drainpipe didn't quite suppress. It is a nice concept, prettily executed. The song is a "grower".
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
Whatever good things Scrawny says about this advert is true. I have just watched the 180-second version twice more.
Except if she said it would make me want to buy that TV. However, it makes me feel positive towards the words "Sony Bravia", I suppose, which is quite an achievement.
Posted by Jack Vincennes (Member # 814) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: The song is a "grower".
If you haven't heard the The Knife version, do do do. Sorry, I don't know if The Knife are in fact massively famous and out of fashion, and if this is like saying "i just heard this great version of hallelujah by a chap called leonard cohen you should check it out" but thought I'd mention it on the offchance. It's good song.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
No, I've never heard of "The Knife" and despite having heard "Hallelujah" countless times (most recently in the toilets of the cinema at lunchtime) I didn't know who sang it.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
This isn't a new name for "Shonen Knife", is it? I have to say I prefer the gentler strumming of the Hernandez version from the ad to this electro-shrieky take.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
Anyway despite my appreciation of this ad, I think the website's boast that there was no CGI is a bit empty. It would be a lot more difficult to CGI 50,000 bouncyballs than to throw them down a hill in real life and film the efect.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
Just saw this, and I did enjoy it. It's a shame that the closing message is SONY!, but it's still an uplifiting experience.
As for "Bombon el Perro" - it's alright. It could have been stronger, but it opted for too much of an international feelgood factor. This is a film for people who like the idea of being fans of international cinema, but don't want anything radically different from any other film that they've ever seen. Whimsical, gentle, a few thoughtful whispers, some nice photography, and great acting by the lead. Alienation within the family is explored, as is the fear of losing your place in the world, but it bottles out of an ending. Good, but could have been better. "A lovely little movie".
[ 17.11.2005, 16:23: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
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I got the M2000![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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