posted
Midnight tonight, the bewitching hour I imagine. Anyone here going to be queuing for the new Harry Potter? I will no doubt be sent out to obtain a copy one way or another, but last time I remember actually looking forward to it myself and it was a big media event. This time, not bothered, and only seen occasional references to it in the media. I think the last book must have been incredibly dull or something because I can barely remember a thing about it. Certainly don't recall anything which made me go, "hurry up and write the next one, FFS." Can anyone remind me what happened? Does anyone care?
posted
Apparently someone called Dumb L. Door dies in this book. I've heard that he commits suicide after facing allegations that he's had his hands on Harry's wang.
Posts: 14015
| IP: Logged
posted
Are you kidding? There have been about two new Harry Potter stories on BBC news website every day this week. There's millions of pounds of orders been placed, and most book shops are planning wretched-sounding 'queue parties'. It all sounds ghastly to be honest, but I haven't noticed a lack of fuss.
And VP is going to be queueing at midnight, spod that she is. She even tried to rope me into it again. Fuck that, though.
Posts: 13758
| IP: Logged
H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
My brother pre-ordered me a copy from Amazon and presented me with an envelope declaiming this fact on my birthday. In February.
This is the fulfilment of a longawaited dream for me
-------------------- i'm expressing my inner anguish through the majesty of song Posts: 4243
| IP: Logged
posted
Hopefully JK Rowling dies in this one and we never have to put up with this again.
I had a colleague at a bank I worked for who it seemed every shift would ask if I had read the latest HP book, or seen the film. I'm sorry but I just don't find the idea of 13 year speccy twats casting spells in the slightest bit interesting - certainly it is good if it encourages children to read, but when grown adults become so engrossed in such stories, it does make you question their current grip on reality and their maturity.
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Are you kidding? There have been about two new Harry Potter stories on BBC news website every day this week.
Oh, right. Must just be me then. I mean, I've seen the odd CBBC website link from the News page obviously, but last time it seemed more of a general talking point everywhere, including on here. I suppose there's been other things to talk about this time.
Posts: 8467
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Waynster: certainly it is good if it encourages children to read, but when grown adults become so engrossed in such stories, it does make you question their current grip on reality and their maturity.
I think the idea is to allow people to relax their grip on reality and maturity for a while, same as pretty much any other fiction, music, film, computer game or real life game does. How is Harry Potter different from these?
Posts: 8467
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by dang65: Oh, right. Must just be me then. I mean, I've seen the odd CBBC website link from the News page obviously, but last time it seemed more of a general talking point everywhere, including on here. I suppose there's been other things to talk about this time.
I guess it's been a bit overshadowed, but there's still been a fair bit of buzz on it with the Pope and Gordon Brown passing comment on the books.
I quite admire the showmanship of the whole thing; the idea of anticipation, the queueing, the sense of event, the feeling of everyone reading it at the same time. It's just a shame I couldn't care less about the book.
Posts: 13758
| IP: Logged
posted
I bought some stamps from WHSmith the other day and as I handed over my hard-earned currency, the female Smith (dressed in a Harry Potter T-shirt) asked me if I wanted to pre-order the Halfblood Prince. It took me a minute to figure out what she meant, after which I cast her a glare which I hope said "Do I look like I would want to?!"Posts: 14015
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by dang65: I think the idea is to allow people to relax their grip on reality and maturity for a while, same as pretty much any other fiction, music, film, computer game or real life game does. How is Harry Potter different from these?
Most fiction, music, films and computer games consumed by adults don't centre around the lives of children.
Posts: 14015
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: Most fiction, music, films and computer games consumed by adults don't centre around the lives of children.
Mmm. A healthier mind would gravitate towards fiction that incorporates little furry creatures that live on a planet called Endor, eh Misc?
Posts: 13758
| IP: Logged
posted
Yay, the annual "Why Do Grown Ups Enjoy Harry Potter?" thread!
I shall compress my argument to a few succinct points:
- media frenzy to generate publicity and sales is nothing new: see Wilkie Collins and Charles Dickens in the 19th century.
- commercialisation wank is an unfortunate by-product of modern sales, the books stand up to scrutiny without the tie-in HP pencilcases etc.
- 3 books in the series were published and grew immensely popular through word of mouth before being seized upon by the Marketing Whores.
- I am an adult with a degree in English Lit who dislikes most offerings from the fantasy genre and I didn't read the books avidly to get in with local 12 year olds, I read them because I found them enthralling, well-written, and able to withstand several re-readings.
- Stephen Fry loves them and he's an intellekchull.
- I once saw this really unfunny, annoying comedienne (Northern) trying to raise laughs by doing the "but Harry Potter's for kids! Adults should be reading things like Madam Bovary!" line to weak applause.
You can close the thread now.
-------------------- What I object to is the colour of some of these wheelie bins and where they are left, in some areas outside all week in the front garden. Posts: 4941
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: - commercialisation wank is an unfortunate by-product of modern sales, the books stand up to scrutiny without the tie-in HP pencilcases etc.
- I am an adult with a degree in English Lit who dislikes most offerings from the fantasy genre and I didn't read the books avidly to get in with local 12 year olds, I read them because I found them enthralling, well-written, and able to withstand several re-readings.
You really think that they are well-written childrens books?
Posts: 786
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Mmm. A healthier mind would gravitate towards fiction that incorporates little furry creatures that live on a planet called Endor, eh Misc?
You're right. I have an unhealthy mind - and that's largely because I like the Star Wars films so.
My point still stands. Can anyone name another series in popular culture which is based around the lives of children but appeals to adults in such numbers?
Posts: 14015
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Mmm. A healthier mind would gravitate towards fiction that incorporates little furry creatures that live on a planet called Endor, eh Misc?
You're right. I have an unhealthy mind - and that's largely because I like the Star Wars films so.
My point still stands. Can anyone name another series in popular culture which is based around the lives of children but appeals to adults in such numbers?
I don't think you have an unhealthy mind - but I don't think Harry Potter fans do, either.
Your final question is a bit loaded: there are few things in pop culture at all with the appeal of Harry Potter, let alone ones which centre around kids. Something like The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime appealed to adults as much as kids, and I wouldn't think an adult was retarded or had a slim grasp of reality or whatever if I saw them reading that.
Posts: 13758
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Gemini: You really think that they are well-written childrens books?
They're easily as good as any other children's books I've read, both in storytelling and in readability. I wouldn't know about literary style and all that stuff. I've never read any book, adult or child, with that in mind, just for a well-told story. If the language is stunning too then that's a bonus, but not an essential requirement by any means.
I'm not a massive fan, but I read the books to the children as bedtime stories and it's always a pleasure to do so. We tried Artemis Fowl a little while ago and that was complete shite, but maybe biased by having recently read HP.
I'd compare the HP books favourably with something like Watership Down, for example. HP is miles better than Alan Garner's real world/fantasy world stories which one might consider comparable. C S Lewis? Only read a couple of Narnia books and they go too far into fantasy for me (I never liked Tolkien for the same reason, and nor do my kids).
Roald Dahl always came up with great ideas, but the writing is very hit and miss and long drawn-out. A bit dull for an adult to read, although my 9-year-old reads his books a lot and that's who they were aimed at so one can't really complain.
Posts: 8467
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: I don't think you have an unhealthy mind - but I don't think Harry Potter fans do, either.
Did I say that they do?
The implication was clear when you explained Waynster's comment:
quote: when grown adults become so engrossed in such stories, it does make you question their current grip on reality and their maturity
to Dang.
Did you yourself question the mental state of adult readers of Harry Potter? Not in so many words. But you did follow up in agreement with someone else's comment saying that. So, in answer to your question, "essentially, yes, you did say that".
Posts: 13758
| IP: Logged
posted
A chum of mine works in the Picadilly Waterstones and has been organising The Launch for weeks. She is a nervous wreck. Mind you, they do have snipers on top of the shelves in the shop to take out any member of staff spotted taking a peek before 12.
She was astounded when I said that, no, I wouldnt be there at midnight, I was planning on borrowing her copy when she had finnished. Though I may have to stop by to laugh at her entertaining the queue. Apparently there will be baloon animals...
Posts: 2793
| IP: Logged
posted
My Dad hates HP because he sees it as nothing more than the re-hashing of 'jolly hollysticks' adventures at boarding kids in which posh kids becomes detectives and track down the horrible working class people who stole their jam.
He's a scouser though, so legally he is required to be full of shit.
Posts: 2434
| IP: Logged
H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
JK Rowling is a relatively solid writer of childrens' fiction who just happened to have a quite good plot idea.
In contrast to a more accomplished writer who ticks boxes for both plot and writing quality (like Diana Wynne Jones or Philip Pullman), she's nothing special when it comes to stringing a sentence together.
-------------------- i'm expressing my inner anguish through the majesty of song Posts: 4243
| IP: Logged
posted
I suppose the age range of child needs to be defined in this instance. Whereas I think this would be an enjoyable book for 8-10 year olds I think by 12 they should have moved on to something else (such as HippyChick has said Philip Pullman). Or maybe I am just over-estimating the reading ability of an average 10 year old in todays society.
Posts: 786
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by H1ppychick: JK Rowling is a relatively solid writer of childrens' fiction who just happened to have a quite good plot idea.
As someone who comes up with a fantastic new plot idea for a book every few days myself, I must say that I think that is grossly unfair. She has managed to sustain a good basic idea into a series of entertaining stories, with a longer term, as yet unconcluded, thread running through the series of books, plus many many smaller details and in-jokes and general flights of imagination. That's the 99% perspiration required of genius, not just the 1% inspiration which just about all of us have.
I've not yet read any Philip Pullman, but I've read many reader reviews saying that he completely fails to sustain the brilliance of the first book across the trilogy. I don't think that can be said of J K Rowling at all.
I feel a bit daft arguing on a thread like this, as I'm not a great reader and I'm not a particularly big fan of Harry Potter. I do enjoy reading the stories to the children, but I don't then go on HP forums to discuss the finer details of the plot or anything, and I only started this thread to ask if the phenomenon was cooling a bit and if anyone could even remember the last book. (I just read the plot synopsis on the BBC site and couldn't remember much of it except that Sirius Black gets killed.) But I don't think it's fair to dismiss J K Rowling as someone who got lucky and who isn't a "proper" writer. In fact, both of those assertions are blatantly untrue.
Posts: 8467
| IP: Logged
posted
I think the whole area of childrens literature is really intiguing. Everyone here hopefully has happy memories of books they loved as a child, that fired their imagination and made them wonder. In some ways, childrens authors are as powerful as parents and teachers in the effect they have on a child.
Firstly, I think it's wrong to be disparaging about childrens literature. It's naive to assume that a childrens book is somehow easier to write, and its disingenuous to kids to think that they aren't discerning readers.
Secondly, I think you have to question whether adults and children read books for the same reasons and are looking for different things out of a text.
Finally, I think the line between children/teen/adult fiction has become increasingly blurred. This seems to confuse people who like books to be clearly categorised- perhaps the way Waterstones in Piccadilly displays it's wares: "books about London", "books set in Japan", "love stories" etc. Philip Pullman's HDM trilogy has two 12 year olds as its main protagonists, but I doubt a 12 year old would fully understand the significance of many elements of the books. The HP series will follow Harry from age 11 to 18, with the final book coming out more than 7 years after the first one was released- hence a child who read Book 1 at age 11, will be legally an adult when Book 7 appears. Does this mean they are not allowed to read it?
I can see why people are finding the marketing bollocks surrounding anything HP-related tiresome, but I am finding it difficult to understand the sneering at those who genuinely enjoy the novels.
I have read countless thousands of books. Pretty much all of the English Literary Canon, a fair few French classics in French, and a lot of Mediaeval and Olde English texts. I love books and I love reading. But I'm an adult, so how can I possibly enjoy a book ostensibly aimed at children?
In a lot of ways, the HP series is quite unusual. There is the "real time" element of children growing up with Harry. There is the meticulous planning to the way Rowling has let the story unfold (compare to G Lucas making Star Wars up as he goes along). There is the way the books have progressed from being just about Harry, to encompassing a huge range of adult characters and the the growing sense of the importance of Harry's dad's generation. And of course it is also comfortingly traditional, with it's boarding school setting, the narrative unfurling against the progression of the academic year, enjoyably continuing the fine literary tradition of stories about kids with special/magical abilities. Of course, the books are by no means perfect, the first two are fairly pedestrian and the last one was in need of some serious editing.
However, somewhere, in this mix of innovation and tradition, Rowling has managed to appeal to all ages. To really appeal; making people want to re-read and discuss with others. And remember this wasn't a writing strategy dreamed up by some kind of publishing equivalent of the marketing board in the pre-film Orange ads.
So I will be queueing at midnight for the unique sense of shared anticipation. I feel a bit sorry for those of you who don't have anything as fun to look forward to in your lives.
-------------------- What I object to is the colour of some of these wheelie bins and where they are left, in some areas outside all week in the front garden. Posts: 4941
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by dang65: I've not yet read any Philip Pullman, but I've read many reader reviews saying that he completely fails to sustain the brilliance of the first book across the trilogy. I don't think that can be said of J K Rowling at all.
I find that really surprising, and I would get hold of the trilogy to see for yourself how wrong these people are.
The first is certainly the most accessible, and the most conventional-fantasy of the three, but I think that the books just get better and better through the trilogy. By the end, you're trying to hold together this cat's cradle of ideas and philosophical concepts that really does qualify as brilliant.
Posts: 1562
| IP: Logged
H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
I enjoy Harry Potter. I think Rowling is workmanlike in her storytelling and plot handling. I just don't think she's the gr8test children's writer in the world EVAH!!!!!!!
-------------------- i'm expressing my inner anguish through the majesty of song Posts: 4243
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by H1ppychick: I enjoy Harry Potter. I think Rowling is workmanlike in her storytelling and plot handling. I just don't think she's the gr8test children's writer in the world EVAH!!!!!!!
I don't think anyone here has said so. What's your point?
-------------------- What I object to is the colour of some of these wheelie bins and where they are left, in some areas outside all week in the front garden. Posts: 4941
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by dang65: But I don't think it's fair to dismiss J K Rowling as someone who got lucky and who isn't a "proper" writer. In fact, both of those assertions are blatantly untrue.
quote:Originally posted by :Vogon Poetess Firstly, I think it's wrong to be disparaging about childrens literature. It's naive to assume that a childrens book is somehow easier to write, and its disingenuous to kids to think that they aren't discerning readers.
I don't think that anyone has said that she isn't a "proper" writer, or that the books aren't enjoyable. Nor has anyone said that a childrens book is easy to write. What is being argued is that the HP books aren't as well written as other childrens literature and some of us can't see what adults see in these books when if they want to read childrens literature there are better examples around that can challenge the adult brain.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic