Just called vee auld girl, kno' wot i mean. Faaaam'ly innit. Told her I hadn't sent a card and she said not to worry, the best mother's day cards are homemade by the kid. Said I'd see what I can do next year.
So, what do you do for mother's day? Is it a complete load of patronising sexist bollocks? Does a box of chocolates compensate for a year of slaving over the dishwasher and grappling with ready-cooked meal packaging?
A lot of people, I say a lot of people, really go for it with the flowers and the meal out. Pubs and restaurants round here are booked up months in advanced. Is that just by families that get together anyway, any excuse, or is it some sort of major guilt trip by the grown-up "children"?
Never got into it myself more than a quick phone call, and Mrs Dang doesn't even bother phoning her mum, and she doesn't want any of that breakfast in bed nonsense from our kids either. Well, not on one specified day anyway. But I'd be interested to know if people here do have some sort of Mothering Sunday tradition and what it means to them and all that.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
Also, sorry to interrupt such a vibrant conversation, but talking about mums, what about this malarky?
The working age population of Europe is shrinking. What's putting people off having children then? The article suggests "financial concerns and worries about their position at work prevent [women] from having as many children as they might like", but is there also the general worry of bringing a child into the mess we're all in at the moment?
Is anyone here put off having children for reasons like that (financial, career, doomed planet) or is it simply that you don't fancy it anyway, or just hadn't even thought about it really?
Maybe mother's day will be a quaint old tradition in the future as clones slave from age 10 to 80 and wonder what a mother is anyway while buying Mad Professor Sunday cards from Clintons.
[ 27.03.2006, 03:32: Message edited by: dang65 ]
Posted by herbs (Member # 101) on :
Gah. As you all know I'm right ancient, but I don't know one woman who has put off the joys of motherhood for the sake of getting a seat on the board, or upping her company car to a Lexus, or even just because her career was going well. In every single case of late motherhood, or late desire for motherhood, it has been a case of not meeting the right, or indeed any, man. Or anyone that would have sex with them without 12 condoms and a signed affidavit that they wouldn't come after them for maintenance.
it makes me MAD that all the blame for dwindling birth rate, and the inevitable collapse of civilisation is laid at the door of 'selfish' women denying their biology, when in my experience it's the men, without the biological clocks, who are the reluctant parents.
So, nah.
Posted by vikram (Member # 98) on :
The future sounds cool.
I'd like kids. I'd make a good husband and father, yeah. But probably only one or two. So I could still afford holidays and gadgets and shit like that. The daughter will be called Tilly, the boy Egon. They will be burnt as witches, come the revolution. Did you know Russia's population is gonna drop 20 million over the next couple of decades? Men only live to like 36 there now. Something like that. A bleeding bear dragging itself across the Siberian tundra told me.
This weekend I failed to visit my mother. I feel bad. Far too hungover. Blame Benway. Watched lots of TV (loving Everybody Hates Chris, reruns of Spooks and House). Browsed gossip sites and Stormfront:
quote:emo scene is so jewish, they even where zog issue thick black frame liberal glass's
lol
My poor Mum. Didn't even send her a card. I suck. Hope everyone did better.
[ 27.03.2006, 03:59: Message edited by: vikram ]
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
Re your first post, we tend to do the standard present/card thing for my mum. This year both brother and myself were away on hols till Saturday so I ordered some flowers and sent a card before we disappeared the week earlier, then called for a chat yesterday.
Re your second post, I suspect that I won't ever have kids of my own. It's not something that I've ever regarded as either inevitable nor something that I've particularly looked for, and I'm now at the point where my presumption is that it's probably not going to happen.
I'm not very clucky and I'm fairly woolly greeny liberal so I can see lots of arguments for not adding more people to the planet. I'm fairly intelligent and might selfishly like to perpetuate my genes from that point, but physically I'm nothing special and in fact there are various medical problems that run in the family (heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, gastric problems) that again would give me pause from that point of view.
Posted by vikram (Member # 98) on :
oh wow, the clocks have gone back!
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
I phoned my mum in Las Vegas, wished her a happy Mothers Day. Mrs Mask got some nice cards made by the Masketeers and she bought herself a very expensive handbag and told me it was from me, to her, for Mothers Day.
Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
We took my girlfriend's mum to see Newcastle play Charlton at the Valley. She's a Geordie. They lost 3-1. We all had a big argument about trains and then weddings. It wasn't very good.
I chipped in to have my mum's old cine films transferred to DVD. I was expecting the jumpy images of her wedding and early motherhood to trigger off a sudden awareness of her mortality and cause her to burst into terrified, panicked tears, but she seemed quite pleased on the phone.
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
(vikram/everyone UK - change your profile to +6 hours, not +5. that way the time will be BST)
Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
Why does vikram get a special mention?
Also, thanks Hippy. I have followed your advice and the time of posts is actually correct again. It feels like 2002 all over again.
[ 27.03.2006, 04:19: Message edited by: jonesy999 ]
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
(he's the one that mentioned the time thing)
Posted by herbs (Member # 101) on :
I spent 70% of the weekend in the car, visiting mothers various. Mine we treated by descending on her, en masse - four grown-ups and two babies, eating all her food then leaving her with ill dad. We did the same for R's mum.
Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
Won't his wife wonder where Ill Dad has got to after a while?
Posted by Louche (Member # 450) on :
Mother brought her small dog to visit me and was rewarded with the DVD of Pride and Prejudice and me providing my unique exhaust a puppy service. This involved launching said puppy down the wood floor repeatedly. Fun for all the family.
quote:Originally posted by dang65: The article suggests "financial concerns and worries about their position at work prevent [women] from having as many children as they might like", but is there also the general worry of bringing a child into the mess we're all in at the moment?
I don't think it's financial concerns and caraeer concerns. Women who wants kids and who are in a position to have them tend to just do so. Whenever I read this kind of thing, where the authors come up with reasons why more women aren't having kids I think there's a queasy reluctance to admit that an increasing number of women aren't spawning simply because they don't actually want to.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Louche: I think there's a queasy reluctance to admit that an increasing number of women aren't spawning simply because they don't actually want to.
I wonder if the Have Your Say crew will mention that. I guess this is an interesting side-effect of equality then, that women can do what men do (uh, go to work, go to pub) but men physically cannot do what women can do (have babies, clean house to anything above pitifully poor standard).
Have we tampered with nature one too many times? Posted by Boy Racer (Member # 498) on :
I went round to see my Mum and presented her with an addition to her collection of avian objet, which she seemed pleased with.
I’m not convinced by this notion that men don’t want to have kids. I have been put off by my utterly pathetic financial/career position and by the fact that I haven’t met the right woman yet, but it doesn’t mean I don’t want to have kids.
Posted by herbs (Member # 101) on :
It's the yet that's the problem. Women are guilty of it too, thinking we'll do it one day, but men can keep on procrastinating until they're 60 and still potentially father spawn.
It does seem, though, that many of the 'not yet' brigade of men in fact embrace fatherhood if a happy 'accident' does occur.
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
I lost my temper with my parents due to yesterday, which made me feel a bit bad. But. I leave work on Friday, turn my phone on: beepity beep- wahey, it must be a text from a sexxy man! No (and no more, it seems), it's from my dad, saying "I hope a card will arrive for your mum tomorrow." This is not dignified with a response. Arrive home Friday evening after a rubbish week, and the phone rings, with mother saying half jokingly, half threateningly well I hope my card will be here tomorrow!!!. This infuriates me to the point of shouting at her, unfortunately. I have never, NEVER forgotten Mothers Day or family birthdays since I was old enough to buy my own cards. I. Do. Not. Need. Reminding. This is before we've even got to the point that they seem to be under the impression that the receipt of an obligatory bit of card on a date specified by Clintons and sponsored by Interflora is the ONLY possible measure of a child's love for their parent. Because obviously if the Royal Mail fucked up and lost the card (massively unlikely) this would mean that I not only don't love or care about my mother, but that I actively despise her and am the worst child in the world- actually worse than those who defraud their parents' credit cards, crash their dad's car whilst driving without permission and become axe murderers.
Anyway, I think they got the message. And guess what, the card and thoughtfully chosen book arrived on Saturday, and the carefully selected bouquet (not a boring spray of peach carnations from the dull Mothers Day specials) arrived on the Sunday. Gah.
Re: selfish women not spawning to provide the country with cheap labour. I've never liked babies or small children and definitely will never have any, but know that this is considered "unusual" (and other less polite terms). There's other, more interesting things you can do with your life, you know.
[ 27.03.2006, 05:04: Message edited by: Vogon Poetess ]
Posted by anathema_device (Member # 654) on :
We've always been stingy and lazy. Just cards for Mother's Day. Possibly a visit if it was convenient anyway. Presents? Restaurants? What is this extravagance?
quote:Is anyone here put off having children for reasons like that (financial, career, doomed planet) or is it simply that you don't fancy it anyway, or just hadn't even thought about it really?
My main reason has always been health - my own and that of the hypothetical sprogling (genetics and suchlike).
Other arguments may be wheeled in as support:
not having a cash-cow of a career that would enable me to keep the brat in the style to which I was accustomed when I were a youngster. (I can only imagine being a lone parent, as my mother and her sisters were. For them, that was in a respectable middle-class, divorced way, you understand. Not six kids by different dads, "when's the giro due, again?" stuff.)
and yep, doomed planet, too many people and all that jazz.
also government policies that make it sound as if a child is some sort of heavily-regulated state franchise.
Though I still don't know for certain that I'd "get rid of it" were I ever to find myself with the up-the-duff dilemma.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
I got my mum a £30 Next voucher.
Posted by Uber Trick (Member # 456) on :
My Mum is on safari so didn't do any mother's day stuff this year, but her birthday is a week before mother's day so we usually do something like go for a meal when we're all around.
As for the children issue, it's a tough one and a combination of many things. Like herbs says, I don't personally know any woman who has put off having children due to their career. It is hard to find men who say they want children as you get older, although perhaps that's also tied up with the not finding the 'right' one. But there is this issue of the female 'reproductive window'. Our eggs do have use by dates on them so there is a certain pressure once you get into your thirties. Then there are of course the financial concerns and the overloaded planet to think of.
Personally I'm not sure about children, some days I want them some days I don't. It all seems like something that I might like to do in the future, while I'm aware that I will need to make a concious decision one way or the other over the next few years otherwise I'll be one of these women who finds herself unintentionally childless. Of course you can adopt, but I'm talking biological children here. If I'm not going to have children then I want it to be because I made that decision (unless of course there is some health reason that I don't know of yet) and not just because I 'didn't get round to it'.
For me its not just about having children though, it's about the whole having a family, e.g. a husband and a child or two. If my desire to have a child outweighs my desire to be part of a family unit then I could go it alone with some sperm and a turkey baster, but for now if I do it I want to do it with someone I love and am committed too. If I don't find anyone then I'll just run my farm on my own, fool around with the hunky farm boys in the hay stacks and adopt loads of kids to help muck out the cows and pick all the fruit and veg. I might start saving to freeze my eggs though, just to keep my options open.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
I er....don't talk to my mum. I spent Sunday taking a hot older women to her favourite shop instead.
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
I phoned mine despite the fact that I don't like her, it's easier to be nice to her than to make the rest of the family suffer her moaning about me. For once (and probably just because I phoned before lunchtime) she was sober and didn't say anything too mean.
I had a quick word with my younger brother who is treatning to come and visit over the Easter holidays and that was Monsters day over for me.
It's not even Mothers Day in Holland until the 2nd Sunday in May..
So far as being ready for kids I didn't think it was a hard decision to make, I guess I've always wanted kids and the question of when really wasn't an issue.
I can't stand the fact that I lost Summer when I got divorced and that's hard. Sometime I wish I hadn't had her because I get so upset that she's not around and it would be easier if she wasn't, I just hope that pain lessens as she and I get older.
Posted by Sidney (Member # 399) on :
As my own mum is dead, we concentrated our efforts on having a nice day with J's mum instead. Cards and thoughtfully chosen presents, all going out together for a 'family day out' followed by the obligatory meal. To be honest, it was the kind of day that we have fairly regularly but it means a lot to J's mum when we spend Mother's Day together as a family. Rather than thinking of it as a sheep like response to Hallmark cards induced consumer pressure, I treat it as an opportunity to do something good for someone who means a lot to me, knowing that it will mean a lot to them.
As for the To Spawn Or Not To Spawn debate, all I can say is that I have always wanted to have another child; now more than ever as time is getting on and my eggs are turning Down's. Sadly, J does not feel the same way and resolutely refuses to knock me up, giving finance based reasons.
[ 27.03.2006, 05:48: Message edited by: Sidney ]
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: I er....don't talk to my mum. I spent Sunday taking a hot older women to her favourite shop instead.
What was her favourite shop, NWoD? And who was this older woman?
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Next.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Next.
Classy.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
There's a lot of references to finances playing a huge part in their decision to have children. Perhaps some of the family unit posters could highlight the impact of children on their finances. I was raised on pittance see and I personally only really felt it later when I didn't really have the same support as my friends in college. You know, I could deal with not having the most fashionable trainers or every Star Wars figure in the range. I'm from the school of thinking that it's completely possible to raise children on a modest wage, but I'd like to hear someones personal experience. It might also be an ideal outlet for a good moan.
I take into account it was when I got my first job and my father demanded a large chunk of my wage for rent. I think he was trying to show me the error of my ways for leaving college but all it did was drive me out of his home without any savings in the bank and it's been a bit of a hand to mouth affair since then.
Posted by dance margarita (Member # 848) on :
when i rang my mother yesterday she was honestly very breezy about the fact that neither my sistor or i had sent a card; i get the impression she thinks its all a bit of a hallmark holiday anyway. my mum knows that we love her to mini- bits, she doesnt need a V and A card with a cecil beaton photo of a woman in a big hat to prove it now. and fifteen years ago she didnt need to be confined to her bed for an extra hour whilst me and my sistor stood sentinel at her bedside forcing her to drink tea that was too milky and a boiled egg that was too runny and toast that was too burned, when she would much rather have been listening to the archers and filing her nails. in fact she has said she found the whole performance slightly unnerving, although i suppose that might be the sort of thing you only say if you secretly liked it a little bit.
i used to desperately want kids, desperately desperately, but i think that was because i was a bit broken and i thought if i had kids i could mend myself by making healthy replicas of me which i could also dress in adorable little outfits, which is of course massively dangerous and the worst possible reason to spawn. i still like the idea of having children, but unfortunately its taken me nearly 31 years to begin mending myself, im not even going to think about getting into another relationship for like, a year, and im not sure i wouldnt be a terrible mother besides. i dont want to end up like one of those poor people you see on the 'call the supernanny! our kids are fat pikeys!' programmes, wondering how on earth they adorable little bundles of joy turned into nihilistic puddles of lard who only occasionally wake up from their torpor to engage in a fifteen minute frenzy of indiscriminate biting. and its very easy to say 'well, you wouldnt, because youre not stupid', but i dont really trust myself not to turn another human being's existence into a living hell.
[ 27.03.2006, 06:17: Message edited by: dance margarita ]
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: There's a lot of references to finances playing a huge part in their decision to have children. Perhaps some of the family unit posters could highlight the impact of children on their finances.
It is interesting. I don't think when women cite "financial reasons" it's solely because they want to only clothe their angels in Baby Gap and send them to private schools and give them THE BEST of everything. I think a part of it is that for women to have kids they have to resign themselves to giving up work for a minimum of 6 months or so, and after being financially independent for all/most of their working lives, it must be quite daunting. Not only must it appear more risky to be reliant on a single salary in an age when job security is weaker, for me personally to be living off someone else's money would be difficult.
Most people would want/expect their kids to go to uni now, and that is obviously now a monstrous expense to take into account.
Posted by not... (Member # 25) on :
Not really, you get 18 years to put some money away. It's like £50 per month in some sort of savings account ISA doobrey. Sorted.
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
Mother's Day here isn't until middle of May, but I usually just call (sometimes more, sometimes less). Froopy sends a card to his mom I think.
I didn't let financial concerns stop me from having a baby, but they might stop me from having more than one. I can go back to work when she is around 5, but if I have more, the time stretches (and I don't want to have another one right away, I'm still recovering from this one).
Maybe it is more that people are having fewer children than many people are choosing not to have children at all? A family of more than two children is more and more rare these days, isn't it?
ETA: Of course you can go back to work sooner if you put your kid in daycare, but that isn't cheap, and I wouldn't have had a baby if I wanted someone else to raise her.
[ 27.03.2006, 07:26: Message edited by: rooster ]
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by rooster: I wouldn't have had a baby if I wanted someone else to raise her.
If more people felt like that, I honestly believe the world would be a much better place. Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: There's a lot of references to finances playing a huge part in their decision to have children. Perhaps some of the family unit posters could highlight the impact of children on their finances. I was raised on pittance see and I personally only really felt it later when I didn't really have the same support as my friends in college. You know, I could deal with not having the most fashionable trainers or every Star Wars figure in the range. I'm from the school of thinking that it's completely possible to raise children on a modest wage, but I'd like to hear someones personal experience.
I'm not speaking from personal experience, but just to throw a thought in the mix - it's maybe not possible to directly compare your situation as a young'un to the current climate, given that when we were kids it was still possible to pay a mortgage on a single salary. House prices have gone up much faster than salaries (in fact - I remember dang pointing out that salaries in some sectors had gone down both in real terms, and literally over the past ten years), so when people say they can't afford it, it could well be that they're perfectly capable of buying designer clothes and electronics for their kids, the like of which our parents never could, but now can't afford the mortgage repayments on their current salary. I don't know, of course, because I've never seriously looked at my finances with regard to fitting a baby into the scheme of things, except that I do know I could still barely afford a one bedroom flat in Redhill.
Maybe it is a pressure thing as well, like people feel there kid really does need a certain quality of life that's only attainable through financial outlay. I don't think that's necessarily true - I was at a christening recently in Fulham and the hosts were clearly minted but still appeared to me to be largely passionless about their kids and treated them a little bit like further accessories to their marriage and lifestyle. No doubt those kids would grow up in affluent surroundings but I guess it's no substitute for taking an interest in kids' lives. Nonetheless, it would be difficult to face the bombardment of "your baby needs this!" style advertising, or stomach the "are you failing your children by living in a crap area?" headlines, without so much as a smidgen of self doubt, and a feeling that maybe you need to live in a better area with better schools to give your kids a chance. So you know. I don't think it's just about people wondering if they can buy the latest kit.
[ 27.03.2006, 08:12: Message edited by: Thorn Davis ]
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Having children looks like a relatively expensive thing to do. But I reckon that if you decide not to have a child until you can comfortably afford it, then it will probably never happen. I'm sure it's possible to bring a child up on a limited salary, thanks to Poundland nappies and the joys of the Asda Farmstores range. Personally though, I'd like to have a little more financial security before I made such a move.
PS: What the fuck is up with your their/they're/theres Thorn?
[ 27.03.2006, 07:58: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
He's got the AIDS, Misc- I think it's pretty mean of you to pick up on the growing dementia.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
I think it’s a trend of the times that people take on as much debt as they can physically afford, for their own affluent living. While it gives the impression of being fairly well off and no doubt most people in this situation are one what most would consider a reasonable wage while also having plenty of swanky lifestyle accessories, there’s a sense of only just being able to stay afloat financially. Most people have at least one large loan to pay off, and possibly several credit cards, and often a mortgage on top of that. As Thorn points out, it’s difficult to reasonably afford a property of your own at the moment unless you’re in a relationship with someone who is willing to share the cost and let’s face it, most people even in fairly solid relationships view a mortgage as a permanent tie to another person which can’t just be broken easily, and I’m sure most people wouldn’t consider bringing up a child in rented accommodation because of the implied lack of stability. When you consider all of this, it’s not hard to imagine that a person on a good wage, in a stable relationship, who shows all the signs of affluent living, may only be ‘staying afloat’ financially and don’t believe that they could ever find a suitable amount of disposable income to support a child. Obviously there are plenty more factors to consider, and I think that if a person wanted a child enough then they would find the money to do so, just like any other expense in life, but with more people focusing on careers and the direction of their own lives, it’s not hard to see how the idea procreation could take a back seat. Of course there’s that tricky ‘maternal instinct’ thing which I don’t really know much about, and I’d guess this can be an overriding factor in plenty of cases.
Interestingly, if you asked me a year ago if I wanted children I’d say absolutely not. Now I find the idea of having a child quite appealing. I guess it’s a result of changes in my life situation and also the sense that I’ve done a lot of growing up in the past year or so, through moving away from my parents and taking full control of every aspect of my life. That’s just given me an interesting thought, actually. University. See, I never went to university so when I moved out from my parents’ house, t was as an adult. People who go to university move away as teenagers and often never really seem to make that transition. I’m not saying that graduates are immature, just that perhaps they still view themselves simply as young people who are still a long way from having to do ‘adult stuff’ like having a mortgage and children and the like. That might be complete rubbish, it’s just a thought that popped into my head as I was typing so I thought I would share it.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: He's got the AIDS, Misc- I think it's pretty mean of you to pick up on the growing dementia.
Oh sorry. Can I say 'get well soon' or is that not the done thing with AIDS?
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
How come hard working people can't afford to have children yet, whenever I come to the UK all I seem to see are unwed, unemployed single mothers of about 15 years old dragging 3 or 4 multicoloured mewling brats round Tescos looking for the Smirnoff Ice ?
[ 27.03.2006, 08:12: Message edited by: Darryn.R ]
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: How come hard working people can't afford to have children yet, whenever I come to the UK all I seem to see are unwed, unemployed single mothers of about 15 years old dragging 3 or 4 multicoloured mewling brats round Tescos looking for Smirnoff Ice ?
I think it's because hard working people who know something about their finances often think better of the idea of sprogging until they can afford it, whereas the underage, unwed, unemployables think 'fuck it' because they're already in loads of debt anyway, so what does it matter, like?
I hope this doesn't make me sound too much like a snob.
[ 27.03.2006, 08:15: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by London (Member # 29) on :
Where are these men who want to have children? All I meet are men who say that they don't want them 'in the forseeable future, if ever' (direct quote from man who, incidentally, didn't believe in condoms and assumed that, if a couple get pregnant, the woman will automatically have an abortion.) Well that's easy for your stupid testosterone-ridden un-ovaried ass to say, isn't it? If anyone knows any attractive men in their 30s/40s who can see themselves having children in the forseeable future, please take a photo so I can send them to the 'endangered species' section of the Horniman Museum. Many thanks.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
I just said I wouldn't mind having a kid, jesus london..
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by London: If anyone knows any attractive men in their 30s/40s who can see themselves having children in the forseeable future, please take a photo so I can send them to the 'endangered species' section of the Horniman Museum. Many thanks.
We're a dying breed.
ETA: Oh. You said attractive. Nevermind.
[ 27.03.2006, 08:18: Message edited by: ralph ]
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
I was about to say the same thing Ralph...
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: I just said I wouldn't mind having a kid, jesus london..
Problem solved! Who wants to phoo the Londingo/Ringon?
Posted by London (Member # 29) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: I just said I wouldn't mind having a kid, jesus london..
I guess I meant 'men who want to have children who might want to have them with me'. You know.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
The world isn't ready for the beauty of our offspring London. It's better this way.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Ah see I was coming from the angle that food and clothes are cheaper than ever. Darryn is right, the steretypical 'chav' culture does exist, as repulsive as this Snorton-like imaganing. There is still pressure from children though isn't there? The have and have nots? Looking back at the amount of pressure my Father was under to get hold of a fucking Sega Master System, it's no wonder he always looked so pained. It isn't about keeping up with the joneses, but making a compromise with your children. A good example would be the tears on christmas day if you were given a Go-bot instead of a Transformer.
My father owned his own house but was all 'dole' but I distinctly remember having really runny watery gravy to make it go further. In present day, the very thought of doing that makes me laugh. Out loud. Right now. I actually don't know here. I suppose I am speculating because I think for two people in stable work, fair salary, it shouldn't be completely unfathomable.
Posted by herbs (Member # 101) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles:
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: How come hard working people can't afford to have children yet, whenever I come to the UK all I seem to see are unwed, unemployed single mothers of about 15 years old dragging 3 or 4 multicoloured mewling brats round Tescos looking for Smirnoff Ice ?
I think it's because hard working people who know something about their finances often think better of the idea of sprogging until they can afford it, whereas the underage, unwed, unemployables think 'fuck it' because they're already in loads of debt anyway, so what does it matter, like?
I hope this doesn't make me sound too much like a snob.
I think they might have got it right. Instead of fretting about whether we live in the right area, can afford organic quinoa and scrape by on only two cars, realise we're 40 and can't afford both IVF and two holidays abroad, with nanny, they just have kids because they want to, and love them, and deal with the financial strictures as and when. And Smirnoff Ice is good when they're teething.
[ 27.03.2006, 08:36: Message edited by: herbs ]
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
I was making a joke Mikee, though you do see that sort of thing more in the UK than here where mums seem to be mostly around the late 20's early 30's.
The actual cost of having a baby isn't that high, small children cost very little. Baby food is just your food mashed and with less salt, they grow quickly, but not that quickly, clothes for babies and toddlers are also really cheap especially if you don't mind going 2nd hand. There are expenses like the buggy but if you want to be a fucking mental and buy a Buggaboo Buggy for 500 quid then that's your issue - Beckett has a no brand 50 Euro folding buggy in the back of the car and a free old buggy of a friend for going to the shops and back.
We had to buy a cot, but that's what Ikea is for and that was next to nothing too, both sets of grandparents’ give him toys so we have a house full of playthings and all he really wants to do is sit in a cardboard box and be tickled and that costs nothing..
The real cost is looking after him, I'm at home so I'm not earning so we lose a salary, if I was working we'd have to pay childcare and therefore lose a salary - That's the cost of a baby..
He won't want a Nintendo or whatever the big expensive buzztoy is for ages yet.
Posted by London (Member # 29) on :
I wish there was another thread to post on, something else to think about.
eta - sorry, that wasn't me trying to direct everyone to my boring kitchens thread. I was just being wistful...
[ 27.03.2006, 08:59: Message edited by: London ]
Posted by Uber Trick (Member # 456) on :
All I want to do is to sit in a cardboard box and be tickled too! Good old Beckett, full of good ideas that child. Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: I was making a joke Mikee, though you do see that sort of thing more in the UK than here where mums seem to be mostly around the late 20's early 30's.
Oh I got that, but there was something about it that made me remember Tescos in Leytonstone a few weeks back which was wall to wall screaming children. I was like oh noes, both my niggling doubt and Darryns post have confirmed Snortons redtop sweeping class statements. WE ARE DOOMED. I think from personal experience I have seen people reflect that upon falling pregnant, it will be ok because 'you'd get your own house' Worrying.
There was one couple who were dressed as extras from Lord of the Rings. They didn't have any children though. Maybe they don't know how to procreate because they are dweebs.
Posted by not... (Member # 25) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sidney: Sadly, J does not feel the same way and resolutely refuses to knock me up, giving finance based reasons.
Someone else should be able to oblige here. Any takers?
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
£50 a month for 18 years for a go on Sidney. It sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
Most expensive 2 minutes of your life...
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
That's only 11 grand, Sid's worth more than that..
Posted by not... (Member # 25) on :
perhaps we could all chip in and then all have a go, maybe at different ovulation times, more chance of impregnation.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Shortest straw goes last. Bad luck Ringo.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Shortest straw goes last. Bad luck Ringo.
Sorry Sidney Posted by Samuelnorton (Member # 48) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: How come hard working people can't afford to have children yet, whenever I come to the UK all I seem to see are unwed, unemployed single mothers of about 15 years old dragging 3 or 4 multicoloured mewling brats round Tescos looking for the Smirnoff Ice ?
This is a pretty good reason why your decision not to live in the UK is a sound one, Dazzler.
Posted by Samuelnorton (Member # 48) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Snortons redtop sweeping class statements
Ahh. I can be away from this place for weeks at a stretch, yet I will still stumble across a wonderful reference like this.
In a curious but completely non-homosexual way I heart you NWOD.
[ 27.03.2006, 15:25: Message edited by: Samuelnorton ]
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
I've been thinking quite a lot about this recently. Tick-tock and all that.
Thing is, there's never really going to be a better time for me to have a child than the next two years. I'm pretty healthy, look after myself reasonably well. I'm with someone who would undoubtedly, likelihood of large ears and surfacing of Irish inbreeding aside, make a great dad. We earn quite a lot put together - more than my parents ever had raising three of us, more than my brother has now raising one - so the financial restrictions don't really count. I'm also a big believer in raising kids on a budget - they just shouldn't be that pricey. I reckon if we stopped buying crap like CDs and clothes and eating out - especially eating out - we could cope easy. We have our own house - granted, it's not ideal for a baby as it's a one-bedroom place, but it's reasonably big, next to a huge and lush expanse of green, and about as baby-friendly as London ever gets. We've got a lot of friends round here to share babysitting duties. I have a boss that would be supportive if I chose to take a year or two off to have a child, and a job that can be about 60% done at home, making it easier to go back on a part time basis, although I do agree with Rooster's theory that if you want to have a child, it should be because you want to spend time with them yourself. (I appreciate that this is not a choice many people have though).
Small problem though - I really, REALLY am not in the right headspace to have a child, and I don't see that I ever will be. When I think about it, instead of joy and fluffyness, my entire being does a huge *shudder*. When I spend time with my brother's kid, I find him cute, wonderful, even adorable, but I just don't feel the pull to have one of my own. If anything, being that close to a tiny baby hammers home all the negative aspects of it. The responsibility. The total reorganisation of priorities. The pulling of the rug out from under your life. The endless examples that make the news everyday that prove the theory that your Mum and Dad do indeed fuck you up. I have a friend who is slightly older than me but who has never wanted to have kids because the idea of someone hating her as much as she hates her own mother was just too much to bear.
How do you walk into that kind of possibility?
Anyway. This is horribly selfish of me I know. But there is a choice there, and I'm still not entirely convinced, as Vogon has pointed out, that this choice is as free as we would like it to be. I feel bad even writing the words. Posted by London (Member # 29) on :
[ 27.03.2006, 17:00: Message edited by: London ]
Posted by vikram (Member # 98) on :
[ 27.03.2006, 17:28: Message edited by: vikram ]
Posted by London (Member # 29) on :
You're funny! And so original.
Posted by vikram (Member # 98) on :
[ 27.03.2006, 17:46: Message edited by: vikram ]
Posted by vikram (Member # 98) on :
[ 27.03.2006, 17:46: Message edited by: vikram ]
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samuelnorton: In a curious but completely non-homosexual way I heart you NWOD.
So there's no fantasies abour rimming? Thanks anyway!
Posted by Bandy (Member # 12) on :
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: large ears and surfacing of Irish inbreeding
Tchuh. You should be so lucky sweetcheeks. Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
quote:Originally posted by H1ppychick: (vikram/everyone UK - change your profile to +6 hours, not +5. that way the time will be BST)
did the Netherlands do something freaky with the clocks this weekend? Just had to change this back again.
Posted by ben (Member # 13) on :
quote:Originally posted by dang65: Just called vee auld girl, kno' wot i mean. Faaaam'ly innit. Told her I hadn't sent a card and she said not to worry, the best mother's day cards are homemade by the kid. Said I'd see what I can do next year.
It only takes a little more effort to write and send a card than it does to make a telephone call explaining how/why you haven't sent one. It may well be that the best cards are 'homemade by the kid', but that isn't to say that a grown man can't spare all of - oooo - ten minutes to choose an attractive card and write a few heartfelt lines.
Most of the crap you receive through the post as an adult tends to be grim shit demanding money from you or - worse - offering crazyinsane loans to you... how nice it is/would be to receive something attractive from one's offspring to show you're in their thoughts.
quote:Originally posted by dang65: Is it a complete load of patronising sexist bollocks? Does a box of chocolates compensate for a year of slaving over the dishwasher and grappling with ready-cooked meal packaging?
I can't imagine it remotely compensates, but it's a gesture, isn't it? Everyone appreciates the odd gesture, now and again.
We had my mother and 'her husband' round for a meal on the Friday night and dropped round to hers on the Sunday to give her a card and a framed picture of us all at the christening. None of this exactly broke da bank, but I'm pretty sure it meant something to her.
For D's first Mother's Day, Sam and I made a hand/footpainted card which involved a considerable amount of applied violence and baby torture or - as we said when we handed it to her - "love".
Posted by Sidney (Member # 399) on :
quote:Originally posted by ben: For D's first Mother's Day, Sam and I made a hand/footpainted card which involved a considerable amount of applied violence and baby torture or - as we said when we handed it to her - "love".
For my first Mother's Day after having my son, J did the exact same thing. It was a very touching gesture and I greatly appreciated it, which is what Mother's Day is all about, I feel. Also, it solved the riddle of what the blue stuff between Ben's tiny toes was and how it got there.
Posted by Gemini (Member # 428) on :
quote:Originally posted by ben: It may well be that the best cards are 'homemade by the kid', but that isn't to say that a grown man can't spare all of - oooo - ten minutes to choose an attractive card and write a few heartfelt lines.
Most of the crap you receive through the post as an adult tends to be grim shit demanding money from you or - worse - offering crazyinsane loans to you... how nice it is/would be to receive something attractive from one's offspring to show you're in their thoughts.
I can't imagine it remotely compensates, but it's a gesture, isn't it? Everyone appreciates the odd gesture, now and again.
Isn't it the fact that is is an "expected" gesture make it a bit of an empty gesture?
As an adult wouldn't it be nicer to show appreciation (flowers/letters/phone calls/spending time with them) thru out the year rather than just on the one day? It's a bit like Valentines Days for mothers.
quote:Originally posted by ben: For D's first Mother's Day, Sam and I made a hand/footpainted card which involved a considerable amount of applied violence and baby torture or - as we said when we handed it to her - "love".
That made me go awwww.
[ 05.04.2006, 11:33: Message edited by: Gemini ]
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
For Mrs Mask's first Mother's Day I had her sculpted in alabaster and the statue installed at the top of Nelson's Column, in place of Horatio. I then had the London Philharmonic and the company of the English National Opera, dressed in pink, perform 'Mama Wee're All Crazee Now!' as a team of white stallions drew us around Trafalgar Square in the Royal State Coach, while I fed her beluga caviar dusted with flakes of 24-carat gold and Krug served in hand-carved ruby cherubs.
Posted by ben (Member # 13) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gemini: As an adult wouldn't it be nicer to show appreciation (flowers/letters/phone calls/spending time with them) thru out the year rather than just on the one day? It's a bit like Valentines Days for mothers.
Or you could do it 'as well as' teh above.
The 'O I show my appreciation ALL THE FUCKING TIME - not when THE MAN tells me to' line could be applied to practically any tradition of gift-giving or card exchange. It's easy to get jaded when you go to Clintons or wherever - but surely the correct alternative is to use more imagination than just going to Clintons rather than simply jettisoning the tradition altogether.
You can make these things as personal as you like - a phone call or txt to excuse yourself merely betrays a lack of effort and imagination.
Posted by Gemini (Member # 428) on :
quote:Originally posted by ben:
quote:Originally posted by Gemini: As an adult wouldn't it be nicer to show appreciation (flowers/letters/phone calls/spending time with them) thru out the year rather than just on the one day? It's a bit like Valentines Days for mothers.
Or you could do it 'as well as' teh above.
The 'O I show my appreciation ALL THE FUCKING TIME - not when THE MAN tells me to' line could be applied to practically any tradition of gift-giving or card exchange. It's easy to get jaded when you go to Clintons or wherever - but surely the correct alternative is to use more imagination than just going to Clintons rather than simply jettisoning the tradition altogether.
You can make these things as personal as you like - a phone call or txt to excuse yourself merely betrays a lack of effort and imagination.
Which is why I then compared it to Valentines Day. I just thought your attack on not doing something on Mothers Day was wrong for adults, maybe because i didn't do anything for mothers day apart from sending a text to say Happy Mothers Day however I don't have a guilty conscience as I regularly organise spending "quality" time with my mother thru out the year, something she and I enjoy much more than me just turning up on one Sunday a year and cooking her/taking her out for a meal. Personally I think that demonstrates much more of a lack of imagination and effort.
Posted by ben (Member # 13) on :
True enough. For the rest of the year I just ignore mother's cries, except to send a glass of tapwater and a piece of stale brioche up via the dumb waiter, which I suppose reflects pretty poorly on my filial instincts.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
You cook your mum?
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
Oh, Black Mask. Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
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