quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: So, to be fair, MODGE hasn't done anything cock-a-like or, to my knowledge, lied.
*sigh* I don't think Modge is lying. I believe the story as it goes. I just don't understand it. What I do understand though is that apparently you can cry wolf for fucking years. You can troll and snipe and be savage and fucking nasty. You can do this and when something unpleasant comes along you can act really dreadfully hurt. You can accuse people of laying the boot in. You can try to take some kind of moral highground, when you have never offered any on which to stand on. If you point this out then your friends can react really fucking confused and say 'wha? - why is everyone being so thoughtless? - don't talk about this boring thing that's been shoved in your faces - ooh got a grudge have we?'
You've got to feel sorry for omikin really though haven't you? On the sidelines, his chance to do something useful. Go omikin! It's not the winnning but the taking part that counts.
posted
You don't need to apologise om, just hurry over to the thread about Iraq, ben could really have done with some help earlier and you wasted your efforts on me.
posted
NWOD, I think I must have lost track a bit of what the problem is.
I know you don't like kovacs, and I'm pretty sure I know why you don't, fine. You don't have to feel or express sympathy/support about what happened, and I hope, finally, you don't have to question whether it really happened or not.
So what's the problem? You want Roy to post again? The reason he stopped, he said, was because of me not kovacs. You don't think kovacs should have said anything in the first place? I can understand why people might feel uncomfortable having private issues aired on the boards but maybe you can see why it was unsettling to me that Roy was posting here. Maybe it wasn't the "right" thing to do to post about it, but maybe it wasn't "right" for Roy to join TMO in the first place, who knows. Nobody is requesting or expecting you to be horrified and sympathetic on kovacs' behalf, but it doesn't seem necessary either for you to decide that he deserves attacking everytime this subject comes up.
For all people talking about Roy/kovacs saying it is a big taboo and there are unanswered questions, there really don't seem to be that many forthcoming now the subject is 'open' for discussion.
Posts: 1268
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by dance margarita: fair point, really.
Yeah. It'd be fair point if you'd done nothing to obtain a reputation like that. You know, as a liar and a cock.
This is just cringe-making.
A few posts earlier, you asked a question of Modge - as though you really were interested in establishing facts - and she took the time to give you a straight answer. It seems pissy of you to, a couple of posts later, to make a comment like the above... revealing that 'the truth' doesn't carry half so much weight as the chance of getting a pop in.
I'm just wondering whether, with the rant above, you've finally got it all out of your system - or can we expect the wail about Kovacs's evil to be some sort of monthly fixture now?
quote:Originally posted by dance margarita: pretty much every post on this entire wrongheaded farrago of a thread would have been markedly improved by a quote from allo allo, its true.
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: What I do understand though is that apparently you can cry wolf for fucking years. You can troll and snipe and be savage and fucking nasty. You can do this and when something unpleasant comes along you can act really dreadfully hurt. You can accuse people of laying the boot in. You can try to take some kind of moral highground, when you have never offered any on which to stand on.You put your right boot in, you take your right boot out, you do a lot of shouting and you shake your fists about. You light a little smokie and you burn down ze town, zat's vot it's all about. Ah, Himmler, Himmler, Himmler...
just call me the truthbringer, bringer of truths.
-------------------- evil is boring: cheerful power Posts: 1655
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Modge: I know you don't like kovacs, and I'm pretty sure I know why you don't, fine. You don't have to feel or express sympathy/support about what happened, and I hope, finally, you don't have to question whether it really happened or not.
So what's the problem? You want Roy to post again? The reason he stopped, he said, was because of me not kovacs. You don't think kovacs should have said anything in the first place? I can understand why people might feel uncomfortable having private issues aired on the boards but maybe you can see why it was unsettling to me that Roy was posting here. Maybe it wasn't the "right" thing to do to post about it, but maybe it wasn't "right" for Roy to join TMO in the first place, who knows. Nobody is requesting or expecting you to be horrified and sympathetic on kovacs' behalf, but it doesn't seem necessary either for you to decide that he deserves attacking everytime this subject comes up.
For all people talking about Roy/kovacs saying it is a big taboo and there are unanswered questions, there really don't seem to be that many forthcoming now the subject is 'open' for discussion.
Maybe I had better explain it. So that it can be perfectly clear. So that instead of looking bitter like I have as put succinctly 'have an axe to grind' - there was at least at one point in my mind when I was quite willing to forget everything. In fact it was after a meat when Kovacs said 'let's call it a truce instead of sniping' and as soon as my guard was down, out came the usual bile. The usual attacks. This was a long time ago. It wasn't until much later that he was shitty to Uber. If I recall, the entire debacle ended with Kovacs taking some time off, just before you both got hitched. At the time, after stomping all over Ubers happiness, I believe it was Bailey who posted a 'congratulations modge and kovacs' thread which basically really hit it home for me that indeed, you can talk to people like they are shit and totally lick up their well wishes later. There has been a magnitude of occasions when Kovacs has posted here and there hasn't been a shred of hostility on my part. It's not like he pissed me off once and I was bitter about it. is that what people are who refuse to be taken the piss out of? Bitter? Jokes.
As for Roy, it makes no difference to me whether he is here or not, other than he seemed popular. Unlike Ringo, I don't think he should have to stop posting, because I don't think the information presented to the other forumites should have come out. Certainly not in that way. I appreciate what you are trying to convey and the emailing your friends is the call you made. I can see how that might play on your mind. As for nobody requesting that I feel horrified or sympathetic, I do believe that was entirely was was being purported by ben. That I as one of the crowd should feel sympathetic or sorry. I didn't and I truly believe that to be the result of the animosity that has grown not entirely out of thin air. If you think you understand as you say 'why I hate Kovacs' then you'll know exactly as and when I deem it necessary to attack him when I see fit, otherwise you've guessed wrong. The attack, if that's what you call it in my eyes was the stance that 1.) frankly there are board members who feel duped and 2.) it's a shit sandwich that everyone should take a bite of, but that Roy was actually taking the biggest bites. As an outsider looking in, that was odd. Like stumbling in on the murder scene while it happened. By making it public on the boards you make it of the posters interest. I was indeifferent but there were people who i think genuinely felt aggrieved at this (maybe because they liked Roy one guesses) So maybe I need to summarise: because you have suffered does not mean you get to dictate the response of the posters. I appreciate it might have been frightening for you, but that doesn't mean the other posters have to believe you by forfeit - it doesn't work like that.
Thinking about what you say about hoping 'you don't have to question whether it really happened or not' - no, I don't, I've made up my mind but you have to expect there to be people who will question it and it's not really unfair of me to point this out. It's a fair and true statement, marred by the fact there is beef between us, Kovacs and I.
quote:Originally posted by ben: A few posts earlier, you asked a question of Modge - as though you really were interested in establishing facts - and she took the time to give you a straight answer. It seems pissy of you to, a couple of posts later, to make a comment like the above... revealing that 'the truth' doesn't carry half so much weight as the chance of getting a pop in.
I see everyone is using the words the truth in wankies. If you realise that I was indeed convinced that the story was a true one 'the truth' would refer to 'the unfortunate events between R&K and then later at the flat with Modge trying to pacify Roy'
The pop was just me being flippant. Indeed, it had no greater purpose.
Looking up, I actually covered my points, it's kind of cringe-making in return that you think my opinion is based solely on a few bad happenings I couldn't let go of. Fuck you Patro-man. No, it's only me with a grudge and you are writing with a completely clear and reasoned authority.
[ 25.04.2006, 13:15: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Unlike Ringo, I don't think he should have to stop posting
Whoa there a second, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said that Roy had to stop posting, I said that in everyone's interests, it was better if he did. For whatever reason, it seems he agreed with me on that, but that's his decision and I'm sure he thinks it was the right one.
This whole thread has been really fucking juvenile to be honest.
Mikee, you're trying to project your own slant onto the situation, because you dislike Kovacs. Perhaps that's to be expected but you're painting a picture whereby Kovacs almost invited Roy to hit him, just so that he could then come on here and get a load of sympathy from it. Kovacs never asked for sympathy, and I think he never really got very much other than a few people saying that it was a shame. You have to look at the situation objectively if you're going to try and draw any conclusions, otherwise you're simply making things up to suit your own opinions, and to use that as the basis for a pretty vicious attack is pretty poor form. That goes for Carter too.
See now why me and Ben think this isn't something that should be discussed? It's not taboo, it's just fucking pointless, especially when people are going to use some hazy, half understood/half imagined factettes to facilitate the laying of the boot to someone simply because they don't like them.
Mikee you say you don't think that the issues between R&K should have come out like this. Do you think that what you've done today is any more appropriate than what Kovacs and Modge have done? I don't think you should complain about someone airing their dirty laundry when you're practically ramming yours down everyone elses throats.
Come on everyone, let's just let this be an end to it. It's not interesting, it's not funny, it's just a waste of a Tuesday.
Posts: 12211
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: You have to look at the situation objectively if you're going to try and draw any conclusions, otherwise you're simply making things up to suit your own opinions, and to use that as the basis for a pretty vicious attack is pretty poor form. That goes for Carter too.
What about kovacs' vicious attacks? Where's the objectivity there? Or is that all retrospectively justified because the poor child has now attained vIcTIm status?
I'm going to form a support group. Watch this space.
Posts: 1562
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: The pop was just me being flippant. Indeed, it had no greater purpose.
Maybe so, but coming so soon after what seemed like a genuine request - which received a genuine response - it read as pissy and peevish.
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Looking up, I actually covered my points, it's kind of cringe-making in return that you think my opinion is based solely on a few bad happenings I couldn't let go of.
I'm sorry, but given that your post above anatomises those 'few bad happenings' - some of which happened months and months ago - the impression that you've been chewing them over relentlessly ever since is a fairly reasonable one to form.
It's a little disingenuous to talk about your initial indifference to Kovacs getting belted when, so far as I recall, you and others were going to some lengths to flaunt your 'indifference' in subsequent threads.
Posts: 8657
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: =Ulp!= We just wasted a Tuesday! I hadn't thought about it like that. We'll never have that Tuesday back! It's gone! Forever! Oh, the humanity.
Ringo's right. Let's draw a line under this and never mention Roy, kovacs, punching, cocaine, spectacles, bare chests or faces ever again.
You just won't be happy until you've turned this place into Abu Ghraib, will you.
posted
Oi! How dare you have a thread like this in "Games"? Why would I ever look in Games?
Yeah. Odd.
1. I was surprised that people could so easily shrug off the initial incident. Drunken, silly and unnecessary, but still unpleasant, especially given that there was a second occurrence. Serious facial injury, hospital treatment, friends consulting solicitors for advice about GBH charges- these are surely not normal, everyday events to be casually dismissed. Not gasp-aloud melodrama, but out of the ordinary enough to be of note I would have thought.
2. kovacs. Difficult to know where to start. What intrigues me about kovacs is not his textual finesse or skillful manipulation of online personas or astute awareness of the dynamics of various diverse fora, but the reaction of others to him. I'm always surprised when people I like and consider to be clever, valuable contributors go glazed-eyed mental over kovacs. I've sat in a pub and listened to a poster rant about some perceived slight at the hands of kovacs, which they can still quote after several years, their voice choked in indignant fury that it wasn't properly acknowledged that they HAD DEFINITELY won an argument against kovacs. I was genuinely at a loss as to how to respond. And threads like this reveal how eagar people are to join in a kovacs-bashing session.
There aren't many people who can be described as "arch", but I think this is the best definition of the clever, playful, very occasionally cruel way kovacs has gambolled over TMO during the last few years. I can't comment on grudges that people hold over incidences at meats, as I wasn't personally involved in any of them, but I do remain perplexed at how easily intelligent and discerning posters allow themselves to be wound up by him online.
3. Black Mask (who has consistently been at least as playful, arrogant and rude as kovacs can be) can claim all kinds of motives for starting this thread, the cheeky monkey.
-------------------- What I object to is the colour of some of these wheelie bins and where they are left, in some areas outside all week in the front garden. Posts: 4941
| IP: Logged
scrawny
One Mojito, two Gin and Tonics, Three Bacardi Lime Sodas, and a couple of pints of Stella please.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: Where does Bandy fit into all this?
Up until recently nowhere at all, despite having witnessed the original incident. Ben and Jon (Fish) had asked me to not to say anything as it seemed like it had all been patched up since with no hard feelings. I think Fish gave him a dead leg or something in return but nothing more serious. The whole "stamping on the head" thing was hugely overplayed BTW - just more of Ben's macho nonsense (c.f. hog punching).
Anyway... As I say, this was the case until recently. A few weeks back Ben mentioned he had a few drinks in a london members club and Scrawny playfully joked that was it her members club. She knew exactly that it was but i guess it plays down the whole gay incrowd thing if nobody talks about these meetups. ANYWAY at one point during the evening while Scrawny was taking a call (no phones in the bar, please) Ben asked me if i had spoken to anyone about the night in question when he kicked fish about on the floor. As the atmosphere had been reasonably jovial and my tongue was loose from the booze I mentioned that i'd discussed it with Jonesy and Benway. Ben didn't like this at all. He asked me why the fuck I would do that after i'd promised not to talk about it with anyone else. He asked if my promises meant nothing. Indeed, if our "supposed friendship" meant nothing. Shortly after that he left and hasn't returned my emails since then. Although, from the alcohol-fired look in his eyes i'm kind of glad. Fatherhood has certainly calmed his temper but, believe me, that short fuse is still there.
Ben - get in touch, if only a brief email. I need to know that we can meet up again soon and it will all be cool again.
-------------------- ...because that's the kind of guy you are. Posts: 2730
| IP: Logged
not...
You reached over with your hand and knocked my Jap over
posted
Well that's confused me. It's like someone else is using Scrawny's login. It doesn't sound like Bandy either.
example:
quote:The whole "stamping on the head" thing was hugely overplayed BTW - just more of Ben's macho nonsense (c.f. hog punching).
Also
quote:[..] her members club. She knew exactly that it was but i guess it plays down the whole gay incrowd thing if nobody talks about these meetups.
Either I'm not reading that correctly or it doesn't make sense.
posted
I think she means that there's a 'gay' (South Park sense) perception of there being an in-crowd, when in fact there is no such grouping - it's just one of those things people brandish when they have no other firm ground for criticising fellow posters.
Probably a waste of time saying it, but I'm disappointed that you had to bring up all this again, Scrawny. I've always had a lot of admiration for your posting and was one of your early champions, well before the meat when you appeared in a red coat and everyone (eg. Fish and his set) suddenly realised you were hott and, therefore, worth cultivating.
Though we've had our disagreements - particularly over the ethical issues surrounding your work in advertising - I'd always thought I could count on you to keep certain things under wraps when it was understood that we were talking 'off the record'. There are days when reading posts on the forum feels not unlike being a passenger trapped on one of the doomed airliners of 9/11 - reading your post just now, I got that feeling once again.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic