quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: also, would most people place their regional identity above their national one in terms of importance to their how they would define themselves?
Outside London you mean?
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this. Are you suggesting that it's only Londoners who do have a strong sense of regional identity or that Londoners don't? Because although Londoners do seem to view themselves as - you know - Londoners, it doesn't seem any less prevalent than the ferocious sense of regional identity that blazes off Geordies, or the wafts of mawkish sentimentality that Liverpudlians carry and so on and so on. Or have I missed the point entirely? It just seems to be a part of the massive and massively pathetic insecurity that larges tranches of the board feel at not living in london.
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quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: also, would most people place their regional identity above their national one in terms of importance to their how they would define themselves?
Outside London you mean?
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this. Are you suggesting that it's only Londoners who do have a strong sense of regional identity or that Londoners don't? Because although Londoners do seem to view themselves as - you know - Londoners, it doesn't seem any less prevalent than the ferocious sense of regional identity that blazes off Geordies, or the wafts of mawkish sentimentality that Liverpudlians carry and so on and so on. Or have I missed the point entirely? It just seems to be a part of the massive and massively pathetic insecurity that larges tranches of the board feel at not living in london.
I saw Benway's post as a question directed to members of the forum, rather than a question about the populace in general. Perhaps that was a mistake. As you say, I'm sure regional pride exists in many areas across the country, although it only seems to be represented by Londoners on TMO. I haven't noticed many scousers or geordies on here.
As for your final point - no, not at all. I lived in London for three years. I'm glad I did, but I wouldn't particularly want to live there again. If I did, I certainly wouldn't be able to afford property in the sort of areas I'd be prepared to live. I'm quite happy to be away from the place now, and it's only an hour away on the train if I want to visit.
How do you find life outside London? Do you miss it?
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quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: also, would most people place their regional identity above their national one in terms of importance to their how they would define themselves?
It does seem to be something only certain regions feel much of. I haven't noticed people from Leicestershire blasting off about how great it is to be a.... Come to think of it, is there a diminutive or ready to hand name for being someone from Leicestershire?
Do a lot of us still live in the region we originated in? Doesn't that weaken regional identity?
Londoners don't think they are a region; they think they are Britain, by which they really mean England. By which they mean they don't have to call it England because they feel every right minded person wouldn't count the Scottish, N. Irish or Welsh as British anyway, so why even think about them.
By my book, St George is as much racially British as a lot of our families. And he did so come here. How else could he kill that dragon?
Americans are all Ivy League; Californian or red necks. Oh, and Hispanic.
-------------------- A day without laughter is a day wasted. In memory of Alastair Posts: 1936
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quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: I'm sure regional pride exists in many areas across the country, although it only seems to be represented by Londoners on TMO.
No that's not true at all. Ben has written loads about the benefits of living oop North, and Ringo's has posred a great deal on how much he loves his town, to name but two examples. Outside the UK, Ralph seems to identify at least as much with his surrounding countryside as he does with being an American, while conversely Sabian appears to feel no regional identification with London.
To answer your question, yeah, I miss London a bit - there seems to be a suprising amount of 'small town thinking' outside the big city, a kind of cluelessness and lack of ambition that can get quite maddenning. That's the major difference. Outside London everyone seems to be massively incompetent and thick.
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Of course, I was massively incompetent and thick even when I was in London, but I tended to be surrounded by smarter, more capable people, nso they propped me up to some extent.
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It is true. Of all of them. If they were remotely clever the first thing they'd do is go "Hang on, why don't I move to London?"
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in my mind you've got london, then you've got a country mostly full of people who all hate londoners and believe in the law of "common sense" and have "old fashioned values", and then some men in liverpool and manchester who convert warehouses into flats to sell to IT managers who use too much 'product' in their hair.
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English patriotism these days seems reserved for football fans. In central London yesterday there were crowds of football fans all in patriotic English flag regalia singing patriotic songs. Apparantly there was football match on in London somewhere yesterday.
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quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: D'you think you'll head back to London at some point in the future then, Ian?
Well, Tony, one of my friends is now relocating his family from London to Oxford because I've moved here, and another couple of people look like they're about to do the same, so once they've done that I might just move back to London as a kind of a joke. Or maybe Edinburgh. Just keep dragging these people round the country like dogs on a lead.
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quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: in my mind you've got london, then you've got a country mostly full of people who all hate londoners and believe in the law of "common sense" and have "old fashioned values"...
Do you think that sort of generalisation might be the reason that (some) people outside London hate Londonders?
Also, do you become a Londoner simply by moving there? Is it a specific mindset you have to adopt? How many of you are actually born and bred Londoners? Ian's from Dorset isn't he?
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quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: in my mind you've got London, then you've got a country mostly full of people who all hate Londoners and believe in the law of "common sense" and have "old fashioned values"...
Do you think that sort of generalisation might be the reason that (some) people outside London hate Londoners?
Also, do you become a Londoner simply by moving there? Is it a specific mindset you have to adopt? How many of you are actually born and bred Londoners? Ian's from Doest isn't he?
Don't let him think we like Londoners, Misc. It's true, we do hate them all.
Well, I don't hate that half of my family who come from there, of course, but generally, well, you know. Londoners, I spit on them!
-------------------- A day without laughter is a day wasted. In memory of Alastair Posts: 1936
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quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: Also, do you become a Londoner simply by moving there? Is it a specific mindset you have to adopt? How many of you are actually born and bred Londoners? Ian's from Dorset isn't he?
Yeah, and I don't live in London so the hand I'd be playing is pretty weak. But then, I'm not claiming to be a Londoner, just pointing out that it's a good place.
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quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: Do you think that sort of generalisation might be the reason that (some) people outside London hate Londonders?
Maybe, but we don't really care what they think. They're all Morris Dancers.
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Also, since getting cable my main window into the rest of the country is "booze britain", "booze nation", "the nation's biggest boozers". It seems like outside of london, the mostly round faced population spends their leisure time getting drunk and showing their arses to the po-po before slipping over in their own sick and losing their high heeled shoes. And having lived in Ashford Kent and Colchester Essex, that seems pretty true.
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Americans and London-dwellers are rather similar in their inability/unwillingness to see beyond the borders of their domain.
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Yes, that's true. Whereas places like Berkshire, the Midlands and the North are famous for their open-minded erudition.
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quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: Americans and London-dwellers are rather similar in their inability/unwillingness to see beyond the borders of their domain.
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Yes, that's true. Whereas places like Berkshire, the Midlands and the North are famous for their open-minded erudition.
Actually I don't see that blinkered attitude very much at all where I live. Yes, there's an element of petty snobbery about local 'rival' towns (e.g. Newbury vs Basingrad), but that seems to exist everywhere. That's rather different to looking down on everyone who doesn't live in your town/city, though.
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Mmm. It must be someone else then who has posted exasperated rants about the closeminded prejudice of their co-workers on occasions like the Reading festival coming to town.
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Is disliking London being closed-minded? i mean, I can't stand the place, but I think I have fairly valid reasons for it. There are other places I can't stand, and others I really like, and some to which I am indifferent.
Perhaps that's just a reflection of the London mindset though - that if someone doesn't love London, it's because they're either too thick/uncultured to appreciate what makes the place 'great', or they're simply jealous that they don't live there.
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quote:Originally posted by Ringo: Perhaps that's just a reflection of the London mindset though - that if someone doesn't love London, it's because they're either too thick/uncultured to appreciate what makes the place 'great', or they're simply jealous that they don't live there.
I think you've nailed it, Chris. London is all about ego.
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quote:Originally posted by Ringo: Perhaps that's just a reflection of the London mindset though - that if someone doesn't love London, it's because they're either too thick/uncultured to appreciate what makes the place 'great', or they're simply jealous that they don't live there.
Well...yeah I can't disagree with you there. Some Londoners describe good things about the city like overcrowding on the tubes. Or the fact your snot turns black in the city. In fact didn't London say recently how happy she was to be back in london to be pushed about and be treated rudely like it's a good thing. Oh and she called herself London on here as well. I thought you didn't like London because of overcrowding, the smell, the dirt and there's nowhere to park your beast. :theplacenotthepersonlol:
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: Is disliking London being closed-minded?
Did anyone say it was?
quote: if someone doesn't love London, it's because they're either too thick/uncultured to appreciate what makes the place 'great', or they're simply jealous that they don't live there.
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I prefer Leeds. Leeds is pretty and full and varied and has great shops and a bit of culture and is on a major rail line to anywhere you need and rooted in countryside that is so damn beautiful it takes your breathe away sometimes.
Of course, it is full of Yorkshire men, but then you can't have everything.
But, hey, never mind other great places, you carry on talking about London.
-------------------- A day without laughter is a day wasted. In memory of Alastair Posts: 1936
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quote:Originally posted by Ringo: Is disliking London being closed-minded?
Did anyone say it was?
No, I suppose they didn't. I guess it's just a vibe I get from londoners when they're talking about London, that they're tapped into some kind of higher level of life experience, that they're a part of something greater than people outside of London could really appreciate or comprehend.
But then I guess the same could be said for a lot of regional pride. Perople appreciate that there are others who like very much the area in whcih they live/were brought up, but the way that they love their region is in some way deeper and more profound than other people.
Which is all complete toss really.
But going back to what Benway asked originally, I think that our regional identity is far more important to us than our national identity.
It's interesting really, in this age of globalisation, single currencies and unified worldwide goals, concepts such as Britain seem increasingly irrelevant. I wonder what the future holds for the United Kingdom.
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quote:No, I suppose they didn't. I guess it's just a vibe I get from londoners when they're talking about London, that they're tapped into some kind of higher level of life experience, that they're a part of something greater than people outside of London could really appreciate or comprehend.[/QB]
Maybe it's down to the enviroment. London is a place where you have to be pretty tenacious. The day to day working life and commuting can be described as 'tougher' or 'competitive' in comparison to other cities. There's a larger scope of things to do and people to meet. You could easily describe living in London to be a higher level of life experience in terms of mental, physical and emotional thresholds go.
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