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Thought I'd just chuck in a quick rant here, seeing as it's Thursday.
These last few days and weeks I seem to be encountering huge amounts of arrogance all over the place. Like the following examples:
I was in a restaurant with a fellow contractor the other evening. It was quite crowded (what with the credit crunch and that ) and a couple who were waiting for a table stood behind my colleague. He turned round to them and they sort of acknowledged they were a bit close but there was nowhere for them to go for a moment or two. So he goes, "Could you step back a few feet please?" In English (in a German restaurant) to these German people. I was so fucking embarassed. What a wanker. It's not as if they were actually jostling him or anything, it was just that the place was crowded.
On the plane last night the poor stewardess was trying to stow away the hundreds of bags and full-length coats, which people insist on bringing on board with them these days, when this twat pipes up, "Excuse me! My coat's already been squashed to death without you shoving another bag on top of it..." This guy was just sitting on his own. It's not like he was with a load of pissed up mates. I thought, it's a fucking coat you arsehole, not a dozen eggs, and you've brought it on a plane with you so tough shit if it gets a bit squashed.
But I just keep seeing this sort of thing. Am I missing something here? Should I go stomping around clicking my fingers at people too? Maybe it's a certain type of upbringing that some people have which makes them think it's normal to speak to people in this way.
Or is that completely normal behaviour? Do you make a fuss in restaurants, or tell hotel staff what to do? I just really feel like twatting people like that. I'm talking about really petty stuff like the above, dealt with by this sort of withering arrogance, which must presumably be completely subconscious and natural behaviour for those type of people. Cu-nts, that is.
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I think - you know - there's a certain type of person who likes to kick up a stink when they think they're entitled to. I'm not sure it's a recent development: my family quite often does this kind of thing, and it really makes me cringe. My dad and my sister and I were in A+E last summer and fucking hell did they bully the nurses. You know - an obvious situation where people are overworked and just... can't... do everything at once, no matter how much you want them to.
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I wonder if it works out well for people though?
I know when I used to work in the service industry, I would be far more helpful and attentive to people who were friendly and polite.
When working in a bar, I'd obviously serve people in the order they came in. However, if someone was being rude then they'd wait until there was nobody else at the bar. When working in a call centre, if someone called in shouting at me, they would get the minimum help required for me to keep my job. If they came through and were friendly about it, I'd go the extra mile and do everything I could for them.
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I'm in danger of turning into that kind of wanker. The other day we were in a local restaurant, and there was a family at the next table. There were four of them, on a table for eight, and a small child, whom the father kept dandling and sitting right next to me so she kicked my legs, etc, and generally intefered with my delicious roast dinner. 'Are you sure you have enough ROOM? Would you like me to MOVE?' I almost said.
And the other day on the bus I spent the whole journey being annoyed that someone was sitting next to me when there were spare whole seats available.
Surely can't be long until I have an unreasonable outburst.
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quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: I think - you know - there's a certain type of person who likes to kick up a stink when they think they're entitled to.
Yeah, I'm sure that happens a lot, but in the example with my work colleague he was talking to some fellow customers, not to the staff. I've seen him in action a few times actually, and he's just the definition of arrogance. The trouble is, some people like that seem to get people fawning over them. It's like they somehow exude power or something. Even though a lot of us see them as arseholes, there are others who seem to somehow respect that attitude.
I think all these types of people can detect each other, so the arrogant type knows who he can talk like that to and get away with it, and who will just ignore him or tell him to fuck off, or worse.
I think the worst thing is when you end up being associated with them, like the colleague in the restaurant thing, or if some relative is like that. I did tell him he was a wanker actually, but he just took it as a compliment, possibly because I said it with a smile instead of spitting at him or something.
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quote:Originally posted by Cherry In Hove: I wonder if it works out well for people though?
In the situation above the weary nurse did turn up with a shot of morphine as a result of my family being twats. So maybe there is some logic here - all these people are convinced that if they're obnoxious enough, for long enough, to enough people then sooner or later one of them will crack and hit them up with a dose of hard drugs.
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quote:Originally posted by herbs: And the other day on the bus I spent the whole journey being annoyed that someone was sitting next to me when there were spare whole seats available.
Someone actually did have a go at me for that once on a Tube train. I don't think there were any double seats empty, but there were plenty of other places I could have sat. But I happened to choose to sit next to this guy and he immediately started having a go at me! It was just nutter-on-the-bus syndrome. I can't honestly remember what I did. Probably just looked confused for a bit, then he got off at his stop. I don't think I'd have made a point of sitting it out if he'd looked violent, that's for sure. But that wasn't an arrogance thing, just a drugged up loon.
So, if you're going to do it Herbs, make sure you look genuinely threatening if you want to be relly effective.
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quote:Originally posted by herbs: And the other day on the bus I spent the whole journey being annoyed that someone was sitting next to me when there were spare whole seats available.
Did they next to you because there were no other seats available at first? That's the tricky one, when other seats come available, and you have to judge whether it's worth moving or not. I mean, you're only sitting next to someone, it's not realy a big deal -- I start to worry about whether the other person will be insulted if I move away from them as fast as possible. As if they smell, or are a nutter, something.
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They did indeed Mart, which does present a tricky conundrum for the second-comer. I have been in that situation many a time. However, now I'm a fully fledged rude Londoner, I have no qualms in moving, as I reckon the other person, the first sitter, is more likely to be pleased that I've gone than insulted.
But what about those people who sit on the aisle side, and don't move over to let you sit down, just huffily turn their knees 2 degrees to 'let you in'. Sadly I often find my bag grazing their foreheads in these situations.
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on the flip side, it would be pretty rad if it was some totally hot chick who sat next to you and then started sexually abusing you.
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i find that I'm usually the last person that people want to sit next to. I've seen chicks dither like, should I sit next to this dude or that dude, and every single time, they sit next to that dude. I've perfected the 'don't you fucking sit your disgusting porcine junk next to me, man. Don't do it now' vibe.
[ 29.01.2009, 07:32: Message edited by: Jimmy Big Nuts ]
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quote:Originally posted by herbs: But what about those people who sit on the aisle side, and don't move over to let you sit down, just huffily turn their knees 2 degrees to 'let you in'. Sadly I often find my bag grazing their foreheads in these situations.
but there could be all kinds of reasons for this: perhaps they have a bad knee/back and wouldn't be able to negotiate around another person getting out of the inside seat or maybe they are getting off at the next stop and don't want to be trapped? In the second situation they could get up to let you by I suppose...
I will agree that in general unjustified entitlement is an epidemic. As one example, a few years ago, froopy and I were on a plane sitting in two of the three seats in the row. Next to us was an older lady w/a handbag. She couldn't have been more than 5'2" and she said to my 6'1" husband something like, "here dear, can you put my bag under the seat in front of you." She had nothing else in front of her and had the aisle seat and plenty of room. We weren't up to being bullied by some old lady, so we politely refused, but the worst thing was I recounted the story on a bulletin board later and was accosted by everyone's shouts of "foul!" We were awful people because we didn't succumb to the will of our elder no matter how inconsiderate or illogical it was.
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posted
Window or aisle seat? That's a good question. I always choose a window seat and I can't think why the hell anyone would want an aisle seat. Why do people choose aisle seats? On planes I mean. On a busy Tube train it might make sense because it's easier to get out, and there's nothing to see out of the window anyway. But on a plane, there's no contest at all. But there are people who choose aisle seats.
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rooster... I just... I know it must seem like I've got some kind of vendetta against you but... ah... fuck... you just... urgh.
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quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: rooster... I just... I know it must seem like I've got some kind of vendetta against you but... ah... fuck... you just... urgh.
please elaborate. don't worry, the feeling is mutual.
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I have long legs and have always gone on crappy budget flights with no leg room, so the aisle affords a tiny bit of extra space, but mainly it makes it easier for me to get up and walk around a bit, stretch the legs and indulge my weak bladder, without bothering other people.
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quote:Originally posted by mart: I have long legs and have always gone on crappy budget flights with no leg room, so the aisle affords a tiny bit of extra space, but mainly it makes it easier for me to get up and walk around a bit, stretch the legs and indulge my weak bladder, without bothering other people.
Usually froopy tries to get one because of the height/long leg thing too, but sometimes we aren't able. When I'm pregnant I get to have the aisle seat because of the bladder issues and he has to suffer the (more) cramped quarters.
ETA another example that also labeled us awful people and "horrible neighbors" in the same board thread: We lived in a triple decker in South Boston. Parking was very limited (and competitive). Froopy had managed to find a spot in front of the neighbor's house (there is no assignment, just first come first serve anywhere on the street and they had a driveway we weren't blocking). Froop had come in late from class or something and had to be up for work in an hour (with very limited sleep between) when there was a banging on our door at 7am. It was the neighbors asking us to move our car so they could get a piano in their upstairs window. I couldn't drive froop's car, which was a standard, and I wasn't about to deny him one of like three hours sleep because of the neighbor's poor planning. They knew what time the piano was coming and they didn't make any arrangements to park their car in that spot or perhaps ask us the night before (the car had been there for some time because I believe he took the train the previous day), nor did they bother arranging for their driveway spot with the other residents of their house. The guy yelled at me for like 15 minutes because I wouldn't give him the keys to froop's car (um, yeah, I'm going to give some strange dude car keys).
I suppose Thorn would say we should have bent over in this situation too. I think this one is less clear than the other one, so I'm dying to hear the justification of why I irk him w/my other post.
quote:Originally posted by rooster: please elaborate. don't worry, the feeling is mutual.
I suppose when I read the story I thought it did describe the sort of bratty mentality we're talking about here... but not on the part of the old lady. It's not a big deal, but I thought the idea that the old lady was 'bullying' you was laughable and pathetic, your reasoning was absurd (after all it's not like you can actually stretch your legs out under the seat in front of you unless you're Mr Fantastic), an old woman is more likely to be prone to discomfort than a guy in his thirties and if your husband's legs are somehow shaped so that they were folded neatly and comfortably under the seat in front of him I wonder if you could have stepped up and offered to put this thing under the seat in front of you. All moot of course, given that all this has passed but it does seem a bit... inconsiderate.
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quote:Originally posted by dang65: Window or aisle seat? That's a good question. I always choose a window seat and I can't think why the hell anyone would want an aisle seat. Why do people choose aisle seats? On planes I mean. On a busy Tube train it might make sense because it's easier to get out, and there's nothing to see out of the window anyway. But on a plane, there's no contest at all. But there are people who choose aisle seats.
you can stretch your legs properly, go for a piss without waking people up, keep ordering drink without doing so over people's heads, talk to the cabin people easily... man.. so many reasons. Plus, on a 747, you've got a better chance of having nobody next to you if you take a centre aisle, because sitting in the middle two rows is the worst. People often travels in twos, so they go for the seats on the sides of the plane, so they can be private. Travelling on your own, if you time your check in right and go for a centre - aisle seat, you stand a good chance of not having somebody next to you. That's the ultimate aim.
[ 29.01.2009, 09:04: Message edited by: Jimmy Big Nuts ]
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quote:Originally posted by rooster: please elaborate. don't worry, the feeling is mutual.
I suppose when I read the story I thought it did describe the sort of bratty mentality we're talking about here... but not on the part of the old lady. It's not a big deal, but I thought the idea that the old lady was 'bullying' you was laughable and pathetic, your reasoning was absurd (after all it's not like you can actually stretch your legs out under the seat in front of you unless you're Mr Fantastic), an old woman is more likely to be prone to discomfort than a guy in his thirties and if your husband's legs are somehow shaped so that they were folded neatly and comfortably under the seat in front of him I wonder if you could have stepped up and offered to put this thing under the seat in front of you. All moot of course, given that all this has passed but it does seem a bit... inconsiderate.
um...the reason I couldn't put it in front of me is because our bag was already in front of me (with my feet on top of it because there was no room). Have you never flown? Or are you just really short? There is no room for anything other than froop's size 13 shoes under the seat in front of him. Her legs could hardly reach the floor...why wouldn't her actions be seen as entitled?
oh, and I used "bully" because she was at that age where some people just expect people to give them everything because they are old. She wasn't disabled or particularly decrepit, just old (and we aren't talking antediluvian...maybe 65?). I don't believe that time on earth is alone justification for having everyone do your bidding.
posted
The thing is... your point isn't about the physical possibility of getting a bag to fit is it. It's not "we tried, but there just wasn't room" it's "we weren't up to being bullied by an old lady". Do you see the difference?
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quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: The thing is... your point isn't about the physical possibility of getting a bag to fit is it. It's not "we tried, but there just wasn't room" it's "we weren't up to being bullied by an old lady". Do you see the difference?
No, my post is about "why on earth would she ask when she obviously had a lot more room than we did?" Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who has more room. *and her asking was more like assuming...with an sense of "of course he will do what I ask because I am older."
quote:Originally posted by rooster: oh, and I used "bully" because she was at that age where some people just expect people to give them everything because they are old. She wasn't disabled or particularly decrepit, just old (and we aren't talking antediluvian...maybe 65?). I don't believe that time on earth is alone justification for having everyone do your bidding.
Come on now... are you posting in character to wind me up or is this sincere? You may as well start ranting about 'those bloody blacks' now.
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quote:Originally posted by Jimmy Big Nuts: you can stretch your legs properly, go for a piss without waking people up, keep ordering drink without doing so over people's heads, talk to the cabin people easily... man.. so many reasons.
I suppose it might make sense on long flights on big planes. I usually only fly to Europe thought - about an hour and a half in the air - so I don't need the lavvy and the planes are so small they just have two seats one side and one seat on the other. And they only have time to give you one drink.
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quote:Originally posted by rooster: No, my post is about "why on earth would she ask when she obviously had a lot more room than we did?" Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who has more room. *and her asking was more like assuming...with an sense of "of course he will do what I ask because I am older."
Well Ok. I wasn't there so maybe I shouldn't judge. It probably takes a lot of guts for a young couple to stand up to an old woman travelling on her own and to tell her where she can stick her bag, especially if she's already been bullying them so mercilessly.
quote:Originally posted by rooster: oh, and I used "bully" because she was at that age where some people just expect people to give them everything because they are old. She wasn't disabled or particularly decrepit, just old (and we aren't talking antediluvian...maybe 65?). I don't believe that time on earth is alone justification for having everyone do your bidding.
Come on now... are you posting in character to wind me up or is this sincere? You may as well start ranting about 'those bloody blacks' now.
You honestly think that being a member of AARP means people should do things for you even when they don't make any sense?
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quote:Originally posted by rooster: No, my post is about "why on earth would she ask when she obviously had a lot more room than we did?" Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who has more room. *and her asking was more like assuming...with an sense of "of course he will do what I ask because I am older."
Well Ok. I wasn't there so maybe I shouldn't judge. It probably takes a lot of guts for a young couple to stand up to an old woman travelling on her own and to tell her where she can stick her bag, especially if she's already been bullying them so mercilessly.
Oh, give me a break. Like this is 1950 and women traveling on their own need to be taken care of.
I used the word "bully" because of the assumption that we should do what our elders ask. She was using her age as a way of preying on our sensibilities of politeness to do something that didn't make any sense. We would have certainly obliged if she needed help getting something out of the overhead bin, etc., but the fact that she used our culture's respect for age as a way of getting arbitrary benefits (like more leg room) was "bullying" in my mind.
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quote:Originally posted by rooster: the fact that she used our culture's respect for age as a way of getting arbitrary benefits (like more leg room) was "bullying" in my mind.
It's quite a common courtesy for younger people to put themselves out for their elders. Calling that convention 'bullying' is self-pitying arrogance.
You know... I can't really take this seriously, this idea that two healthy young people were somehow being victimised by being asked to make things a bit more comfortable for an old woman. The fact that you've apparently repeated the story more than once to try and paint yourselves standing up to a bully makes it even more laughable.
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I find it laughable when the middle classes start attempting to up their station by yapping and bleating and ordering about, trying to claim the service and attention that I and my ilk have taken for granted over the last 1000 years. Pathetic really. Good service, politeness and respect automatically gravitates toward class, without the need to try and gain it through causing a big fiddle-faddle.
Oh and always an aisle seat. What level of drongo thinks a window seat is a good option?
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quote:Originally posted by rooster: the fact that she used our culture's respect for age as a way of getting arbitrary benefits (like more leg room) was "bullying" in my mind.
It's quite a common courtesy for younger people to put themselves out for their elders. Calling that convention 'bullying' is self-pitying arrogance.
You know... I can't really take this seriously, this idea that two healthy young people were somehow being victimised by being asked to make things a bit more comfortable for an old woman. The fact that you've apparently repeated the story more than once to try and paint yourselves standing up to a bully makes it even more laughable.
You are reading things into it. I never said I used this as an example of us standing up to a bully, and you are narrowing in on that one word because it is what you do. I explained to you why I used that word, but the story was just about someone assuming that another person should suffer discomfort for them just because they want them to. We weren't victimized, but the fact is (and I don't even think this is debatable) that it would have caused froop a heck of a lot more discomfort to have her bag in front of him then it would for her to leave it in front of her. We'd probably be blamed afterward for getting shoe scuffs on it.
The only reason I brought it up is I was surprised at the reaction it got an another thread about 'entitlement' (when I wrote it in that thread it had been the most recent example). I think any time people assume that their needs are more important than anyone else's without real justification they are being entitled:
like the guy in line who thinks he deserves more space than everyone else
like the guy on the airplane who thinks his coat is more important than the things of others
like the woman (regardless of age) who thinks she should have leg room that no one else does
The equation is changed when there is an obvious reason someone should have this benefit: they are old or pregnant or injured so they deserve the last seat on the train, etc. Her action was like someone healthy telling the cripple to get up so he could sit down.
quote:Originally posted by McDirts: Oh and always an aisle seat. What level of drongo thinks a window seat is a good option?
What's the point of going 20,000 feet up in the air and then not being able to see what it fucking looks like? You miss all that just so you can get to the toilet about 3 seconds quicker?
But I am starting to understand why they offer the choice.
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You want to see entitlement? YOU REALLY WANT TO SEE ENTITLEMENT!? Then head down to Kings Road, Chelsea, Sunday afternoon for preference. Oh, you'll see entitlement my friend. I'd gladly murder half the people on the Kings Road.
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: You want to see entitlement? YOU REALLY WANT TO SEE ENTITLEMENT!? Then head down to Kings Road, Chelsea, Sunday afternoon for preference. Oh, you'll see entitlement my friend. I'd gladly murder half the people on the Kings Road.
Dreadful, dreadful, over moneyed euro trash and countless dollar rich arabs with no sense of class whatsoever. Awful.
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![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
) and a couple who were waiting for a table stood behind my colleague. He turned round to them and they sort of acknowledged they were a bit close but there was nowhere for them to go for a moment or two. So he goes, "Could you step back a few feet please?" In English (in a German restaurant) to these German people. I was so fucking embarassed. What a wanker. It's not as if they were actually jostling him or anything, it was just that the place was crowded.
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