posted
I hope my ass isn't actually fat...am training for the Sheffield half marathon at the moment so keeping that in check. I'm studying English Literature - I really enjoy it as a degree but it's hardly vocational.
Am thinking about doing some work experience next year (something to do with marketing or journalism - though doing the latter will involve eventually doing a post grad) and carrying on working in my shop.
Was hoping that you intelligent people would have some advice - thanks Darryn for your wise words. I can actually visit TMO at home now, my computer hasn't been at its best lately.
(sorry for wrecking the thread with my self-indulgent stuff! As you were...)
ETA - I rudely forgot to ask how you're getting on Darryn. Haven't spoken to you in ages and just go on about me.
quote:Originally posted by victoria: I hope my ass isn't actually fat...am training for the Sheffield half marathon at the moment so keeping that in check. I'm studying English Literature - I really enjoy it as a degree but it's hardly vocational.
Am thinking about doing some work experience next year (something to do with marketing or journalism - though doing the latter will involve eventually doing a post grad) and carrying on working in my shop.
I'm off work with AIDS today, so I may not be particularly lucid, but I have worked in both marketing and journalism.
As far as work experience for journalism goes, the best bet is writing for the student paper - if you can get together a portfolio of six months worth of stories with them, that'll probably be worth more than 10 days work experience on the Sheffield Twat or whatever the local paper is up there. In fact, if the kind of marketing you mean is writing blurb for customer magazines and the like, it'll probably be quite convincing experience for that, too. If you do want to go into journalism, be prepared to write a lot of job applications. It's an inexplicably tough nut to crack, given that the industry is 90% populated by half-wits. Nonetheless, you should get there in the end. Having a post-grad degree might well help.
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the student paper here is complete wank. It's trying to be The Sun but doesn't achieve those levels of sophistication. There is an online paper I might try and write some stuff for though.
The advice is appreciated and I'm going to try and start doing something productive with this during the week.
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posted
Don't be too deterred by the overall quality of the student paper - you can always trim your articles out of it without having to show potential bosses the whole product. Even if the paper subs your stuff into bad-Sun wank-Style you can always hold it up in an interview as an example of you writing to fit a house style, like "This is something I wrote for the student newspaper - here we were aiming for a kind of tabloid, red-top style sensationalist angle and I wrote the story accordingly". Any employer worth having - either in journalism or in marketing - should appreciate that even if you write dumbed down, doesn't mean *you* are dumbed down. However, if you did feel anything you did for the student paper failed to represent you, anything you could squeeze out of a work experience placement would demonstrate - you know - range, and the ability to write to whatever readership your publishers have in mind. It's also worth bearing in mind that although my journalism career got off to a flying start, it stalled about two and half years in and therefore my advice is questionable at best. But I don't think any harm can come of making the most of immediate resources like the student paper, or any other editorial, uh, opportunities your University has to offer. Anything you do for the marketing or journalism side can be used to inform your skill in the other; like if you were able to write a chapter in the university prospectus, that could serve as an example of your work in either discipline. So anyway, that's a few thoughts gathered under my ill-loopy brain based on my subjectove experience, and combined with things I wish I'd done to make my road easier.
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What year are you in now? Are you about to finish? Unlike Thorn, I have no breadth of experience at all. So the only real advice I'd be able to give you would be concerning TV news, which is pretty specific, but here goes for what it's worth.
It's not the best time to be trying to move into this industry what with the massive financial cutbacks at BBC (15% per year for 3 years) and ITN haemorraging staff after a massive drop in advertising revenue. The only good employer at the moment is Sky, and I use the term "good employer" loosly. However, by the time you finish and are ready to start working, who knows, it could have all changed for the better.
I've never been in a position of hiring or firing, so I don't really know what they're looking for. But I did a postgrad diploma in broadcast journalism, and most of the people I work with who are under 35 did a journalism postgrad of some sort. I think gone are the days of working on a local paper if you want to get into national tv news... but that obviously isn't necessarily the case if you want to do print journalism - I'm afraid I wouldn't know.
So, a post grad. Pretty pricey. Mine was just under £4k for the course, and that's before the expense of living in London for a year with no full income. Although there are other good courses in Preston and Cardiff. There's also a two year part-time option that could allow you to work as well, but then you're looking at having to wait two years before you can get a job.
The good news is that there's a BBC News trainee scheme which pays the course fees and gives you £8k living expenses for the year. Competition is pretty fierce, but don't let that put you off, it's well worth going for - somebody's got to get it. Plus they've just launched this new College of Journalism, which I know nothing about, but is worth looking into.
Like Thorn said, writing for your student paper looks good. I never did though, I was too lazy at Uni, so I guess it's not vital. As for the student paper being crap, I wouldn't have thought that matters. It's much harder to write tight, punchy prose in the style of the Sun or NoTW than it is to write in the Telegraph house style, so would be good experience. Nobody will care whether the student paper itself wins any awards, just what your copy was like.
I disagree with what Thorn said about work experience though. I'd say getting at least some experience of a working news environment was vital, and the more the better. That's not just in terms of building a CV though. A career in "journalism or marketing" is, if you don't mind me saying, a pretty wooly ambition. It sounds like you need to get as much experience of both as possible so you can focus your mind and efforts on getting a job where you really want. I know loads of people who thought a particular job sounded really cool and worked their arses off to get into it, only to discover it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Both are really tough industries to get a foothold in, and it's never going to happen unless you're fairly focused on what your role in that industry will be.
To be honest, that's about all I can think of right now. Apply for everything, even if it's not advertised. Expect to get knocked back a lot. Keep trying. Working for free is really shit, but I did a month's placement at Sky (ie worked for free) and they gave me a job at the end of my course. I fucking hated it and then they fired me, but hey, a job's a job. A lot of it's down to luck. I had a job interview already lined up the day after I got fired. I knew within 5 minutes of the interview that I hadn't got it because I was quite clearly woefully prepared, so I wandered around the newsroom for a while afterwards (telling people I was on work experience). An hour later I walked out with a freelance job and haven't looked back since. So, consider deception an option also.
Sorry I can't be of much more help. My programme only gives work experience to people on recognised journalism courses, and I am but a lowly worm anyway, so I can't even get you experience here through the back door. Good luck though, and keep us posted.
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scrawny
One Mojito, two Gin and Tonics, Three Bacardi Lime Sodas, and a couple of pints of Stella please.
posted
My two cents…
As far as marketing jobs go, if you’re a smart and presentable English graduate with a good degree, an interesting CV and a skill for interviews, you’ll walk onto a graduate trainee placement in most marketing firms. I assume you are all of the above…don’t be put off by the recruitment fairs, although they will be populated by the sort of people that you’ve just spent your last three years avoiding. I didn’t go, and later on wished I had when everyone else seemed to have their careers sorted out already. I think it’s useful from a psychological point of view more than anything else. Don’t be tempted to pigeonhole yourself too early though. They tend to tell you that you’ll be nothing – NOTHING – unless you’ve put in for at least 10 graduate traineeships before you hit your finals. They are, of course, talking bollocks.
Journalism…I didn’t do a post-grad (hence saving myself the amount of money Fish outlines) but did fall into my current writing job a bit by accident. It probably doesn’t count as proper journalism as I’m on a quarterly, but does involved meeting lots of fun people and churning out about 14k words a quarter on different subjects, so is fine for me. When I was in my hell-job (nothing to do with writing) last year and started looking for something else, I found quite a few things around – writing business stuff for city firms etc. It’s not going to set the world on fire, but it does pay well.
I think Thorn’s right with the student newspaper. Bit the bullet and realise that the minute you’re doing writing for money, you’re going to need weaker principles than if you were writing for The Sun anyway.
If you want a quick chat about it all (as someone who fell into all by accident and knows a bit about both areas you’re considering) post up a request and I’ll stick my email up for a bit.
Lastly, don’t be too bothered. Finishing university is like running towards the end of a very long dark tunnel with all of your friends having breakdowns around you and expecting the rest of your life to be there at the other end. It never is, which is why I took a year off to do this and bum round in a lovely place in France to get my head together and try and get some direction. Good luck – give me a shout if you want any help.
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posted
You've all given me lots to think about - thanks very much.
I'll go and achieve something and keep you updated - just wanted to acknowledge that I appreciate people taking time to help me.
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posted
Both Anal Probe and shitbitch would put your hunters off the scent most effectively. I think you're being very ungrateful for TMO's sanctuary.
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Louche
Carved TMO on her clit just to make you feel bad
posted
You could look at Skype's username top ten for inspiration.
posted
As you know, I hate to be pedantic, but I think you'll find it's Spank me I'm British. Which is even better.
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H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
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why not Janice?
I can sort of empathise on the username thing, I chose this one initially on a whim and it feels like a bit of a millstone around my neck - it seems to put me in a box that is a bit stifling and claustrophobic. But I kind of think that my online persona is anorexic enough as it is, without starting over from scratch.
I'm not bothered enough to actually do anything about it though. Apathy and ennui R Us.
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Louche
Carved TMO on her clit just to make you feel bad
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quote:Originally posted by herbs: As you know, I hate to be pedantic, but I think you'll find it's Spank me I'm British. Which is even better.
I simply assumed the person behind the Spank Me British username wanted to be spanked until they were British? Up until this point I really didn't know that a bit of flagellation could result in a change of nationality.
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