Sadly, I actually thought Black Mask's post was cleverer than it actually was (currently in the process of reviewing other posts of his, to establish whether this is a general trend). I thought his point was that by saying "I'm being optimistic about this - I think it'll be OK", you are in fact acknowledging that it probably won't be OK, and to take the view that it will involves assuming a stance of naively blanking out the negatives. You're not really being optimistic because in you feel that to believe in a positive outcome requires a skewing of your worldview. A true optimist would just think everything would be fine; they wouldn't see it as being optimistic.
So with that in mind, I think yes - you could say the same about a pessimist. If they were sort of posturing with it: "Oh, but I'm a pessimist, I still think it won't work out," you're acknowledging that you'd have to be predisposed to believing things would go wrong, in order to believe they'd go wrong. In other words, objectively speaking you think things will probably go OK but a pessismistic viewpoint involves disregarding your gut feeling in order to believe they won't. A true pessimist would just genuinely believe things were going to go wrong. They wouldn't see that belief as a factor of their pessimism.
But - anyway. That's not what BM meant - it was just a woolly piece of stereotyping.
-------------------- Now that you've called me by name? Posts: 2007
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Well, I kind of see what you're saying, but I still think it's possible to be naturally optimistic and still to be aware that not everyone is like that. In fact, you'd probably think, isn't it great that the world is full of such interestingly different people to me, I love it.
You could also be aware that you are a pessimist and think, fucking optimist twats, I wish they'd all piss off instead of making my world even more miserable than it already is.
Kira, I hadn't seen that additional bit to the definition:
quote:2 : an inclination to put the most favorable construction upon actions and events or to anticipate the best possible outcome
That seems to answer the question. I just thought it was "making the most of what you're given".
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I don't think anyone here has yet mentioned a current bugbear of mine: "I CAN'T BE ASKED" for "I can't be arsed."
It's startling because it seems almost like a false correction ~ people assuming that "arsed" didn't make sense, and changing to "asked" because "I can't be asked" sounds vaguely grammatical in a totally different context ~ and also, it could be a deliberate euphemism except that I strongly suspect the people using it genuinely think this is the correct phrase.
See also: "If you think X, you've got another 'thing'" coming ~ another erroneous attempt to correct an idiomatic phrase into one that seems to have a superficial acquaintance with grammatical sense, but actually means nothing in context.
One of the most touching mispellings I have seen in recent years, because of the logic process it suggests, is "Cork Asian". You have to imagine that the girl who believed it was spelled this way had some idea about... white people blacking up with burnt corks... or something.
-------------------- pudgy little saucepot Posts: 738
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Louche
Carved TMO on her clit just to make you feel bad
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quote:Originally posted by Black Mask:
quote:Originally posted by Louche:
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask:
quote:Originally posted by Louche:
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask:
quote:Originally posted by Louche:
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask:
quote:Originally posted by Louche:
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: Anyone who thinks they're an optimist, by definition, isn't.
Does that work conversely as well? So if someone says 'I'm not an optimist' they actually are an optimist but haven't realised it yet?
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: Balls. I'm right and it burns you up just to know it.
I dunno. I reckon I'm an optimistic person, and my life is incredibly easy. My life is so easy, I laugh at other people for not having as easy a time of it as I do. The harder their lives are, the harder I laugh.
-------------------- Now that you've called me by name? Posts: 2007
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quote:Originally posted by wonderstarr: See also: "If you think X, you've got another 'thing'" coming ~ another erroneous attempt to correct an idiomatic phrase into one that seems to have a superficial acquaintance with grammatical sense, but actually means nothing in context.
Yeah, that one gets me too. I suppose people hear "another think coming" and get Jade off of Big Brother's voice in their head saying somefink and "correct" it because of that. In fact, people look at you a bit weird if you say, "you've got another think coming", the other way is so standard now.
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If that is what you think, then your misconception will be corrected at an indeterminate point in the future by new events or information which proves what you currently believe is true, to be false.
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The expression is, "if you think that, you've got another think coming." You have to understand it as a kind of... Mae West, Groucho Marx kind of wisecrack. Imagine Edward G Robinson snarling it. It's that kind of expression, and I believe it dates to that kind of milieu.
Having "another thing coming" is a total misapprehension that seems to understand the saying as meaning "if you think you're getting beans for dinner, you're actually getting peas [another thing]", rather than "if you think you're getting beans for dinner, you better have another think about it/have another thought lined up, cause that one's wrong."
-------------------- pudgy little saucepot Posts: 738
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quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: Utter confusion on the thing/think subject * here.
quote:So, what you guys are saying is that this expression I've used my entire life, which is used throughout the Western U.S. and by everyone I know, as well as by Judas Priest, is wrong?
LOL. "Another thing coming" is used by Americans, and by Judas Priest. QED. Not.
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"I could care less" almost reminds me of the way, in colloquial French, you would lazily drop the negative "ne" ~ "je sais pas" for "je ne sais pas". Or, as an extreme, "je pas".
The laziness of dropping "n't" from "I couldn't care less" almost seems in keeping with the shrugging indifference of the phrase.
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quote: If you think Ill sit around as the world goes by Youre thinkin like a fool cause its a case of do or die Out there is a fortune waitin to be had You think Ill let it go youre mad You've got another thing comin'
quote:Originally posted by wonderstarr: "I could care less" almost reminds me of the way, in colloquial French, you would lazily drop the negative "ne" ~ "je sais pas" for "je ne sais pas". Or, as an extreme, "je pas".
The laziness of dropping "n't" from "I couldn't care less" almost seems in keeping with the shrugging indifference of the phrase.
I think the French example is different as pas translates as not. Yes, it's lazy to leave out the ne, but a negative element to the sentence is still preserved, whereas "I could care less" removes the negative entirely.
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Care to unpack what you mean by "smelling", there, Black Mask? There may be people here who identify as "smelly" from your cultural position, and you've probably just made this a pretty uncomfortable, oppressive environment for those folks. I'm putting in a request to move your last post to Policy and initiating airlock procedures.
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quote:Originally posted by Kira: Surely this is just another example of specific/pacific?
Um... in what way? You mean the way some people think "specific" is pronounced "pacific"?
Yes, in that some people have got think and thing mixed up, and believe the expression is "another thing coming".
But you seem to be suggesting you think "thing coming" is correct.
yes I am suggesting that "another thing coming" is correct. Thats always how I've heard it. However I would never say pacific instead of specific. Only retards do that.
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Does anyone use "think on" by the way? I rather like that phrase, although I originally took it to mean "keep thinking" when I now believe it's supposed to mean "think about it", as in "take some time to have some thoughts on the matter".
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quote:Originally posted by wonderstarr: Care to unpack what you mean by "smelling", there, Black Mask? There may be people here who identify as "smelly" from your cultural position, and you've probably just made this a pretty uncomfortable, oppressive environment for those folks. I'm putting in a request to move your last post to Policy and initiating airlock procedures.
quote:Originally posted by dang65: Does anyone use "think on" by the way? I rather like that phrase, although I originally took it to mean "keep thinking" when I now believe it's supposed to mean "think about it", as in "take some time to have some thoughts on the matter".
quote:Originally posted by dang65: Does anyone use "think on" by the way? I rather like that phrase, although I originally took it to mean "keep thinking" when I now believe it's supposed to mean "think about it", as in "take some time to have some thoughts on the matter".
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quote:Originally posted by Kira: yes I am suggesting that "another thing coming" is correct. Thats always how I've heard it. However I would never say pacific instead of specific. Only retards do that.
As I said earlier, I believe that's where the "thing" version has come about, in the UK at least. Because people think they're correcting the Essex pronounciation of "thing" as "fink", when in fact it's supposed to be "think". Think makes sense. Thing doesn't. Other than that "thing" is just an abstract, all encompassing word.
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quote:Originally posted by Kira: yes I am suggesting that "another thing coming" is correct. Thats always how I've heard it. However I would never say pacific instead of specific. Only retards do that.
As I said earlier, I believe that's where the "thing" version has come about, in the UK at least. Because people think they're correcting the Essex pronounciation of "thing" as "fink", when in fact it's supposed to be "think". Think makes sense. Thing doesn't. Other than that "thing" is just an abstract, all encompassing word.
Could it be... 'You've got an Otherthink coming.'?
quote:Originally posted by Kira: yes I am suggesting that "another thing coming" is correct. Thats always how I've heard it. However I would never say pacific instead of specific. Only retards do that.
To be fair, Kira, they sound the same, as the website linked to above seemed to demonstrate (something about "thing/k" as one word joins the 'k' sound at the start of "coming").
What's interesting is that you must have thought the phrase meant something slightly different. In what I believe is the correct form, it means "you have another thought coming" ~ but the grammar has been comically warped. (Again, it's from America in the 1930s apparently. Think of the poem "spring has sprung / the grass is rizz / I wonder where the boidies is! / the boids is on the wing, they say. But that's absoid / I always heard them say / the wings is on the boid.")
I'm not sure really what sense "another thing" makes, except in the way I suggested above ("If you think you're getting any money off me, you've got another thing [no money] coming").
-------------------- pudgy little saucepot Posts: 738
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I always thought it was 'thing'. It makes about as much sense as 'think', in this context.
I can only apologise for the brass monkeys misunderstanding. Perhaps they were used for ceremonial ball-holding, rather than on the high seas.
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