quote:Originally posted by Jessica Rabbit: I have to admit I was vaguely toying with the idea of buying the A+J album until I realised that OJ and Fionulla only liked it because it was about being gay.
But I like it and I've only chowed box twice.
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quote:Originally posted by London: But I like it and I've only chowed box twice.
If I bought every single shit album London had recommended on TMO over the past three years I'd be totally bankrupt, and forced to survive by eating my way through two thousand unlistenable CDs by no-mark underground pop bands that are largely ignored once the first 300-strong run of self published EPs is left to rot at the back of the drummer's dad's garage.
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quote:Originally posted by Waynster: A gentlemen came into the property of some Studio Masters from a country auction (It appears the studio had hold of them and then went bust)
What was the procedure with the master tapes? Was it agreed they would be held. When recording a master standard practice is to duplicate or backup the master or sign a 'holding contract' which states the studio will look after the tape for a determined time.
quote:The problem is the record company are not too bothered as they didn't pay for the studio time.
Who did pay for the studio time?
quote:As Masters, to a collector they are worth quite a lot, but surely the owner (Ginger) should be the one to profit from it, right?
A pretty shit situation. He still does own copyright to the songs and could claim easily everything back or sue should the songs be duped and distributed. The last article I read was the governments own new deal for Musicians Guide which was quite clear about the ownership of recordings. I could find out for you, or put you in touch with someone who will definately know.
[ 07.09.2005, 08:10: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
posted
I'm posting this because reading the latter parts of this thread is like watching an episode of The Office with Wayster as Brent in black jeans and a PWEI t-shirt and I might just chew right through my knuckles if I don't make it stop. Waynester, Jessica Rabbit is Thorn Davis and thus he, like I think everyone else on the entire planet these days, knows full well what you do and that you've got an actual real life connection to The Wildhearts and that everytime one of them does a poo they get you to rush round there and do your official photographer bit on their steaming produce. Seriously dude, we totally get it.
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quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: What was the procedure with the master tapes? Was it agreed they would be held. When recording a master standard practice is to duplicate or backup the master or sign a 'holding contract' which states the studio will look after the tape for a determined time.
That's difficult to say - I guess the producer (Tim Smith) would know more about that - I'll try and find out from him
quote:Who did pay for the studio time?
Ginger did - he self financed the album more or less completely - it was only after the rush from the fanbase that the record companies got interested.
quote:A pretty shit situation. He still does own copyright to the songs and could claim easily everything back or sue should the songs be duped and distributed. The last article I read was the governments own new deal for Musicians Guide which was quite clear about the ownership of recordings. I could find out for you, or put you in touch with someone who will definately know.
If you could do either of the latter I would be extremely grateful and very indebted to you. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place as I am not 100% on the legal matters, Ginger is just shouting to get the police involved though I know this to be a civil issue, and this chancer who is literally holding the tapes to ransom.
quote:Originally posted by Waynster: A gentlemen came into the property of some Studio Masters from a country auction (It appears the studio had hold of them and then went bust), and tried to sell them on ebay - I contacted him on Saturday via ebay asking him to call me as we considered them to be the property of someone else.
Ok. There are two things here. First, it's not only a potential copyright issue, but also a straightforward property issue. The physical tapes, you reckon, belong to the Wildhearts. What are you basing this on?
If you can prove (from contracts etc) that the physical tapes are theirs then you're on fairly strong ground leaglly to be able to get them back on the grounds that the receiver of the studio didn't have title to sell them.
On the copyright front the guy, I'd guess (and I'm no expert in this area) as yet hasn't infringed copyright simply by offering the tapes for sale.
quote:Funny thing was is a) of course he works in law (though he auctions a lot of stuff on ebay) and b) as soon as he realised the tapes were worth a few quid, basically started holding them to ransom.
Are you sure he works in the law? Did he say for whom he works. If you have his name you could mail me with it and I'll see if he's a UK qualified lawyer or holds any directorships. Or if you have a phone number it is possible to reverse engineer it to get an address. This isn't strictly legal though, so I'm sure no-one else on here would have any clue how to do it.
quote:The problem is the record company are not too bothered as they didn't pay for the studio time. The other major problem is that only ebay know where this guy livess so we can't send the boys around.
Realistically this is your problem. You don't short of getting the police involved (assuming you can prove that the tapes are the Wildhearts) have much of an option. Maybe they could offer him some signed merchandise as a swap for the tapes, that way he could still get his cash and the Wildhearts get their masters.
BUT, if you have any other info on this guy (a name in particular) let me know . 'Cos if he is a lawyer I'll have no hesitation in getting his governing body involved as he should do the decent thing and return them.
posted
Bitter chumps aside, I've been told that as he's paid the fees it would be highly irregular to single out the master copy as separate from the other fees. There will be two contracts - one of which Ginger should have. If there isn't a contract and a lot of the agreed work was verbal, then he's got a strong claim to the tapes.
edit: NIFFERS here! No more arm chair law issues for me.
[ 07.09.2005, 08:29: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
quote:Originally posted by Niffer: Ok. There are two things here. First, it's not only a potential copyright issue, but also a straightforward property issue. The physical tapes, you reckon, belong to the Wildhearts. What are you basing this on?
They very clearly depict on the boxes the recording notes including the name of the producer, album, artist and so on. I am basing this on the fact that G himself said that he has never allowed any masters to be sold on.
quote:If you can prove (from contracts etc) that the physical tapes are theirs then you're on fairly strong ground leaglly to be able to get them back on the grounds that the receiver of the studio didn't have title to sell them.
That might always be difficult, as the artist in question is not always the most reliable of people. I reckon Tim the producer may know some more about this sort of thing, ie if he signed anything. Also as he has self produced his own band for over 20 years he might be a bit more aware.
quote:On the copyright front the guy, I'd guess (and I'm no expert in this area) as yet hasn't infringed copyright simply by offering the tapes for sale.
I was told by a manager friend of mine at the weekend that its the content of the tapes, and not the physical tape itself which is the main issue.
Also, the guy reckoned he was only selling them as scrap tapes, yet he clearly worded them as someone would a memorabilia item - his 'get out of jail free' quote was that he could not vouch as to what was on them as he had not played them
quote: Are you sure he works in the law? Did he say for whom he works. If you have his name you could mail me with it and I'll see if he's a UK qualified lawyer or holds any directorships. Or if you have a phone number it is possible to reverse engineer it to get an address. This isn't strictly legal though, so I'm sure no-one else on here would have any clue how to do it.
He says he works for a law firm, but I think he's the cleaner or something, as Lawyers don't seem to spend most of their time selling stuff on ebay to make a few quid (he is a large scale seller offering old projectioners, magazine collections and so on)
quote: Maybe they could offer him some signed merchandise as a swap for the tapes, that way he could still get his cash and the Wildhearts get their masters.
We tried that - I have verified the lyric sheets contained are Gingers own hand and therefore worth a few quid and suggested he sell them alone but he wasn't having it.
One final point - one of the tapes contains 3 songs never released, and if he did own the tapes, he could theoretically release a CD right of these tracks (another label did this when the wildhearts split from one of their labels on unfriendly terms) - this potentially makes it nasty.
Niffer/NWOD - thank you, sincereley, for helping us on this.
quote:Originally posted by Waynster: I was told by a manager friend of mine at the weekend that its the content of the tapes, and not the physical tape itself which is the main issue.
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I'm sure for the artist/manager etc what's on the tapes is what's most important. From a legal perspective that's only true if this guy (or any one else) makes copies because that's when the copyright is breached.
Take another example, if you had a painting that the artist claimed didn't belong to you, you wouldn't be infringing his copyright simply by possessing it (unless you tried to copy it or pass it off as your own work). All you have done at this stage is take possession of something which may not be yours.
quote:Also, the guy reckoned he was only selling them as scrap tapes, yet he clearly worded them as someone would a memorabilia item - his 'get out of jail free' quote was that he could not vouch as to what was on them as he had not played them
This is just shitty. Not much you can do about it tho'.
quote:He says he works for a law firm, but I think he's the cleaner or something, as Lawyers don't seem to spend most of their time selling stuff on ebay to make a few quid (he is a large scale seller offering old projectioners, magazine collections and so on)
You'd be surprised. See if you can find out who he works for.
quote: We tried that - I have verified the lyric sheets contained are Gingers own hand and therefore worth a few quid and suggested he sell them alone but he wasn't having it.
Ah. Right. Bugger.
quote:One final point - one of the tapes contains 3 songs never released, and if he did own the tapes, he could theoretically release a CD right of these tracks (another label did this when the wildhearts split from one of their labels on unfriendly terms) - this potentially makes it nasty.
If he did, THEN he'd be breaching copyright and it's a whole different ballgame.
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Whilst I’m mildly ecstatic that M.I.A. didn’t win (I’ll admit the I’ve only heard the nominal single off the album, but that’s resoundingly average, and the video features her doing her best impression that bloke who dances badly in that credit card ad, only with less rhythm) surely the championing of this caterwauling pasty artwanker and his cohorts undermines the prize’s already dubious credibility still further.
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posted
boy racer - i think a samuelnorton who listens to something other than radio 2 has stolen your password.
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H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
Sidetrack: a guy at work has just come over to my desk and raved about Stephen Fretwell, can anyone describe his music to me so I can decide whether or not to go and see him in Bristol in a couple of weeks?
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Omikin, quite possibly. I am hungover to Irn Bru levels today, and whilst no frot mags have been purchased (yet), Helen Mirren is looking far cheekier on the cover of Time Out today than she did yesterday.
But honestly, barring Turnstile and MIA, any of the other nominated acts are better than these muppets.
I'm almost glad that The Go! Team didn't win though as it means I should still be able to get tickets for the Astoria.
[ 08.09.2005, 06:31: Message edited by: Boy Racer ]
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posted
The Mercury Music Prize is great - suddenly everyone in the country feels, like, twenty times more cutting edge than they normally do.
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posted
Waynster why don't you ever check your Wanyster.com email address? I want to buy some of your Wildhearts photos off you to frame for my new flat.
H1ppychick - Stephen Fretwell has his website here. It's kind of an industrial death metal/ indiepop/ folk music blend with a strong social conscience. Imagine members of KMFDM and Static X gently sodomising Enya, as NWoD listens to PWEI on his MP3 player, just loud enough for by-standers pick out the tune, while he videos the whole encounter on his mobile phone and begins to worry abot whether he's crossed a line into the socially unacceptable.
Fretwell's stuff is a pretty bland example of an already over-subscribed genre, but apparently his stage show is worth catching and fans say you haven't heard the hymn to his small but solid erections - Mighty Goathorn - until you've heard it live.
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posted
Is Wayne about today ? I woke up feeling rather hung-over and I know he was supposed to go to work this morning ?
Last nights gig was blinding. Nine Black Alps played a great little introduction set to open for the KC's. Full of that angry, raw young energy that seems so lacking from most up and comers these days.
The Kaisers opened and were played onto the stage through a sheet of dry ice to the strains of Money for Nothing by Dire Straights(sp) giving (in my mind) a noticing nod that the reason they were playing a sold out venue was due to a large extent by their heavy rotation on MTV.
They launched into their set with more energy than I expect, like a whirling dervish of cheeky pop the lead singer threw himself around both on and off the stage, audience members clambering stage ward were brought up and hugged rather than pushed away by bouncers, the mood in the room was good and for the first time in a long time you could actually feel it.
Song after song after song, the crowd singing along to each and every trademark 'whoa, whoa, whoa' or 'la, la, la, la, la'
If they Mercury had been given for a band that knows how to work an audience the Kaisers would have walked away with it easily.
Would I see them again - OH YES.
I know what you mean Ben when you say suddenly everyone in the country feels, like, twenty times more cutting edge than they normally do, but I guess that’s how people find new music if they don’t go looking for it.
Anyone else been listening to any of these bands currently playing in TMO towers ? If not, why not give a listen and let us know what you think..
The Ponys - Celebration Castle The Clientele - Strange Geometry Supersystem - Always Never Again We Are Scientists – With Love and Squalor New London Fire - I Sing The Body Holographic (Athough this isn’t actually out until Feb 2006)
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Waynster why don't you ever check your Wanyster.com email address? I want to buy some of your Wildhearts photos off you to frame for my new flat.
M8 sorry did get the mail - I just haven't had the chance to dig you something spectacular out yet (I've got a mate over at the mo from China) - I promise I will mail you later and we can get something organised.
posted
KC's were indeed fine last night - not my normal style of music but I was suitably impressed. Photographing them was a buggar mind - had 5 songs (unheard of) in the pit, but the dreaded no flash rule, so initial response this am was ughh.
Surprised myself how much of their stuff I recognised - and for a band so recentley let down by not winning the prize they showed no signs of dissapointment last night.
They are off to Oz and the States supporting the Foo fighters (whilst my mates Willy and Richard join them on Guitar tech and Lampy duties, the lucky lads) - I am tempted for an away break to the US to go see them again (and to of course do some class ligging with Messer Grohl and Co).
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