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» TMO Talk » Music » Relapse - Eminem

   
Author Topic: Relapse - Eminem
Thorn Davis

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I had no idea this was out already, until someone mentioned the apparently awful interview he did with Jonathon Ross over the weekend (awful on Wossy's part, I'm told, as he trampled over Eminem's comment that he'd considered killing himself, by launching a question about getting fat and losing weight).

Anyone on here heard it? I know there's some erstwhile fans on here - Black Mask and Dang, for example - and I was wondering whether they had any thoughts.

Like the rest of the world, I wasn't that impressed with Encore, but I still love Marshall Mathers LP and The Eminem Show. Any thoughts on how the new one stacks up?

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Darryn.R
TMO Admin
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I got it yesterday and will give it a listen on the way home tonight..

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my own brother a god dam shit sucking vampire!!! you wait till mum finds out buddy!


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dang65
it's all the rage
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Only heard the bit he did on Jonathan Ross. Sounded ok, but more of the same. Will give it a listen some time, no doubt.
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dang65
it's all the rage
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It's on Spotify, by-the-way. Just having a first listen.

Edit: Probably last listen as well. Dull.

[ 21.05.2009, 11:22: Message edited by: dang65 ]

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Darryn.R
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Lots of rape, lots of anger and then kiddie rape, some more rape and then some anger, mummy issues, the single and them blub, blub, rape, rape, rapeity rape, rape rape - the end.

Not his best work.

Not enough rape.

[ 21.05.2009, 12:13: Message edited by: Darryn.R ]

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my own brother a god dam shit sucking vampire!!! you wait till mum finds out buddy!


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Octavia
I hate Valentine's Day.
Stupid commercialised crap
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quote:
Originally posted by dang65:

Edit: Probably last listen as well. Dull.

I thought it was terrific - listened to it all the way through twice, in one sitting. Dull probably isn't the word I'd use. Insane - the song about him being abused as a boy was pretty arresting in a horrifying kind of way. I've got an image now of dang sitting in on an incest survivor's meeting and interrupting everyone's stories, rolling his eyes, blowing his cheeks out and going 'boo-rring'.

All the stuff about his addiction - about half the album - was awesome. A completely candid, brutally self aware analysis of lies and self-deception that gets quite terrifying in its familiarity. The rape stuff I think is just to keep MOR publications and institutions at arm's length. If it wasn't for all the descriptions of torturing chicks to death then this could be held up by Teh Grauniad as an intelligent, moral rap album, which is too horrible to contemplate. Add some gratuitous slaughter to the mix and it becomes a bit harder to co-opt.

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Octavia
I hate Valentine's Day.
Stupid commercialised crap
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^^ That post is by me, by the way. Not Octavia.
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Ringo

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Isn't Eminem just completely shit now though? Still releasing exactly the same tired angsty drivel he was releasing a decade ago? Everything I've heard of his new stuff so far has been bilge.

I know that aligning myself with Dang probably renders my opinion worthless, but I'm with him on this one.

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dang65
it's all the rage
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quote:
Originally posted by Octavia:
the song about him being abused as a boy was pretty arresting in a horrifying kind of way.

I do suffer from a rare affliction amongst music lovers, which is that lyrics go straight over my head. Even songs which I've been listening to for years and years, I completely fail to sing along to or to realise what they are about. Only the other day someone mentioned "Seasons In The Sun" (we had joy we had fun we had seasons... bla bla bla) and I looked it up on Spotify and actually listened to it and realised it's about some bloke who is dying. And Matthew And Son by Cat Stevens is about working for a really shit company. Etc.

So, I was really just referring to the music, which should probably completely disqualify me from having any kind of opinion about a Rap record really.

I notice on YouTube that Sacha Baron Cohen has actually managed to surpass himself totally. Look at Eminem's face, man. If he'd just laughed then he could have got away with it and come across as a good sport. Instead... total humiliation. Wild.

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Black Mask

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quote:
Originally posted by dang65:


I notice on YouTube that Sacha Baron Cohen has actually managed to surpass himself totally. Look at Eminem's face, man. If he'd just laughed then he could have got away with it and come across as a good sport. Instead... total humiliation. Wild.

Hmmm... I'm guessing that was staged.

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sweet

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dang65
it's all the rage
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quote:
Originally posted by Black Mask:
Hmmm... I'm guessing that was staged.

I've heard mention of that, but how is there any advantage to Eminem in acting it out in that way? It's not an episode of Extras, and I didn't think it was SBC's MO to have his targets in on the joke. But I dunno.

Debate continues.

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Black Mask

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Just imagine the planning and logistics. Dropping someone onto a specific spot, suspended from a wire. They'd have to have that perfectly rigged and rehearsed, and be absolutely sure who was sitting in the target seat. You can't just run a guy out on a wire and hope for the best, it has to be a direct hit on Marshall or the joke doesn't work. So, the seating is squared away, the cable-run is rigged up and rehearsed and all the cameras are in place. Can you imagine the MTV Award organisers green-lighting Bruno's plan?

What's that Mr. Baron-Cohen? Drop you from the ceiling onto one of the world's biggest stars? Without their knowledge? During our televised award show? Sure! I'm sure he'll get the joke. Besides, what do we have to lose? We don't need to talk this over with Eminem, his management or our legal team. Just do it!

And then there was the response... Eminem gets a screaming gay angel dropped onto him balls first and the best he and his entourage (of bull-necked gangstas) can manage is a few limp shoves, a bit of slapstick wrestling and some mildly disgusted muttering. It doesn't ring true. I wish it was, but I doubt it.

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sweet

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dang65
it's all the rage
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Yeah, I realise it wasn't a complete surprise thing... I think that's been stated all along. But that would have been the organisational set-up which allowed SBC to stick his bare arse right in Eminem's face.

I dunno, honestly. I'm just failing to see what Eminem was supposed to get out of it. Even if everyone involved in the whole thing, including Eminem, comes out and says it was played out exactly to the pre-arranged script and with his full colaboration, it still looks like he's been fooled. Doesn't it? Or is this some new form of avant garde post-comedy?

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Black Mask

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quote:
Originally posted by dang65:
I'm just failing to see what Eminem was supposed to get out of it.

I suppose he gets to look like he takes himself a little less seriously than everyone supposes he does. He gets to look like a good sport and less like a homophobic douche. At the very worst he looks a little vulnerable and not the sort of rapper who habitually shoots people at celebrity gatherings. And it works both ways for SBC. If people buy it, he's a star. If people see through it... "Hey, he got Eminem to play along when he stuck his balls in his face. Some guy that SBC!"

Imagine it was you, though. You're sitting in an auditorium. A guy is catapulted across the ceiling. You look up, he's directly above you. He's screaming that the machinery holding him aloft is malfunctioning. Repeat, he's directly above you! Do you just sit there? What are you going to do? Catch him? No way. This is the litigious USA. Eminem knew where to sit, he'd rehearsed sitting tight, he knew what was coming. SBC, MTV and EminemPLC wouldn't have it any other way. SBC's whole movie could've been in jeopardy, MTV could've been taken to the cleaners if anyone was hurt in the stunt or if Eminem's 'dignity' had suffered. And Eminem and his management wouldn't have played along if it hadn't been exactly what they wanted to do.

At the most, at the very most, SBC rehearsed it with pants on, and then gave Marshall the balls on the night.

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sweet

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dang65
it's all the rage
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Well, everyone's on to it now.

Guardian

quote:
Whatever the truth, there is little doubt that the prank has worked brilliantly for both parties. Cohen, previously synonymous in America with Borat and his green mankini, has managed to give his new character his own notoriety (online the incident is being widely referred to as "Bruno v Eminem"). As for Eminem, not only has the stunt generated a lot of publicity at a time when he's flogging a new album, but the rapper is also in the process of rescuing his reputation as a once-hilarious rapper who now takes himself too seriously.

(In which case, he has wittily enacted his own escape from that reputation.)

[Confused]

The whole thing is way too abstract for me.

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dang65
it's all the rage
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quote:
Originally posted by Black Mask:
At the most, at the very most, SBC rehearsed it with pants on, and then gave Marshall the balls on the night.

Yes, that's the way I see it. But that small change to the plan makes all the difference. And it's the kind of thing SBC would do. It's what he's based his whole career on.

I really don't see what Eminem gets out of it. He gets to look like he takes himself a little less seriously than everyone supposes he does?? Really? He gets to look like he's been set up and made to look like a complete sucker.

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Boy Racer
This man has no twinkie !
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With the exception of Lose Yorself I was pretty unconvinced by M%M's material after the Marshall Mathers lp, which remains far and above his finest hour. I need to listen to Relapse a bit more but I found it largely unconvincing, self pitying / hating, indulgent and flabby. He still definately has skills, but I can' help thinking he would have been better served finding new producers or collaborators.

Thorn/everyone have you heard Plastic Little? I'm enjoying them very much, and would recommend to early M&M enthusiasts.

On another issue unworthy of a whole thread to itself, does anyone know how to send Spotify invites? I've got an account but can't work out how to invite others. Spotifys Help isn't any help.

Oh and Hello people / congratulations breeders.

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Some people stand in the darkness, afraid to step into the light...

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dang65
it's all the rage
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quote:
Originally posted by Boy Racer:
On another issue unworthy of a whole thread to itself, does anyone know how to send Spotify invites? I've got an account but can't work out how to invite others. Spotifys Help isn't any help.

I've seen other people asking about Spotify invites, but you don't need them. You just go to the site and register. Maybe they worked via invites at one time?

It's the greatest application on the Web so far anyway and everyone should be given an account at birth really.

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MiscellaneousFiles

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Am I right in thinking that Spotify requires the installation of software? Under the stupid new rules at the office, I don't have permission to install anything without summoning the IT gods and begging their permission.
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dang65
it's all the rage
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Yeah, it is an app which you have to download. I only use it at home, but I work at home two days a week so that works out nice.
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New Way Of Decay

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quote:
Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles:
Am I right in thinking that Spotify requires the installation of software? Under the stupid new rules at the office, I don't have permission to install anything without summoning the IT gods and begging their permission.

You're IT staff might be a little more lenient than ours but spotify is flagged my mcafee as a security risk, presently.

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BUY A TICKET AND WATCH SOME METAL

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MiscellaneousFiles

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Guess I'll stick to bringing MP3s to work on a memory stick then.
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Thorn Davis

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quote:
Originally posted by Boy Racer:
With the exception of Lose Yorself I was pretty unconvinced by M%M's material after the Marshall Mathers lp, which remains far and above his finest hour. I need to listen to Relapse a bit more but I found it largely unconvincing, self pitying / hating, indulgent and flabby. He still definately has skills, but I can' help thinking he would have been better served finding new producers or collaborators.

Mmm. I always thought people using 'self-pity' to criticise Eminem is one of those useless comments deployed by the terminally unimaginitive in a failed bid to sound like they have at least one independent thought rattling around in their heads; like saying 'Obviously the film isn't as good as the book'. It seems especially inappropriate with this album, given that he attacks the way he would use self-pity to justify drug use:

quote:
Wouldn't even be taking this shit if DeShaun didn't die.
Oh ya there's an excuse you lose Proof so you use.
There's new rules it's cool if it's helping you to get through.

Not to mention the skit at the end where the record producer says "Let me guess. Another album of 'Poor me'? Am I on to something?" It's a criticism that's already been ancipated and answered.

There's also soemthing to be said for the fact that the 'my shitty life' songs have always been a big part of what he's about and - surely - what separates him from people who rap about 'big screen TV's, blunts, 40s and bitches'. It's a bit like complaining that Slayer have done an album full of songs about serial killers, war crimes and anti-religion songs.

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Boy Racer
This man has no twinkie !
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I don't know Thorn, like I said I need to listen to Relapse a bit more. I agree about your points about the lyrics about Proof and the skit you mention, but I'm not sure a line acknowledging his self pity and a 30 second skit about it excuses the content of the album. And this isn't some knee jerk Enimem is self-pitying stance, I fucking LOVED the Marshal Mathers album. I still remember it being something of a surprise how quickly it followed on from the Slim Shady album and how aware it was of the cliches of rap, the media and cultural hypocrisy, how clever and angry (and funny) it was. I couldn't stop listening to it. And I just don't find anything to compare to that record's highlights on my first listens to Relapse.

Like I said in my original post I don't think the blame for that can be laid entirely at Eminem's door, because I really don't rate Dre's production on Relapse that much, and can't help thinking that Eminem could have shaken things up a bit by working with some other producers.

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Some people stand in the darkness, afraid to step into the light...

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Thorn Davis

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I would say Insane, Deja Vu, Beautiful and Underground are all up there with his best. But eh. I probably know as much about rap as ben knows about rock so it's possible that I'm talking nonsense.
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Black Mask

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You've got to put rap on the backburner for a good few years yet. Your first priority should be tutoring Thorntavia in the ways of ROCK! That Parental Advisory stuff will have to wait for a while.

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sweet

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Thorn Davis

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She'd been to three rock concerts before she was even born. There's no danger of her life lacking ROCK. She's probably spent more of her life listening to to ROCK than she has feeding. I've already been keeping my eye out for a good pint-size guitar for her.

We do have quite intense debates about where to start her off, though. Octavia srgues that simple melodies and catchy choruses are a better place to begin, whereas I reckon straight up riffage is easy for a kid to get their head around. Although that probably just has to do with what we each listen out for in music.

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Black Mask

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Once they start bouncing on their feet you need to start pumping out the Glam and the Stoopid ROCK. They're pretty much hooked for life then. T-Rex and the Stooges. Baby-crack.

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sweet

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McDirts
TMO Member
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I've got a really nice mix tape that'll get your little one off on the right musical footing Thorn. Don't you worry.
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Octavia
I hate Valentine's Day.
Stupid commercialised crap
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When Thorn's not here she gets other stuff. Yesterday Glen Miller for some classic big-band tchoons. So I have only myself to blame for having Chatanooga Choo-Choo on the brain for four hours this morning.
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Thorn Davis

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NNNGGH!! You're going to make her grow up WRONGGG!!!
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Octavia
I hate Valentine's Day.
Stupid commercialised crap
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Hah. We had the Magic Flute this morning.
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Cherry In Hove
Channel 39
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quote:
Originally posted by Octavia:
Hah. We had the Magic Flute this morning.

I'm not sure you need to brag about your sex life. We know that you do it as you have a child.
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froopyscot
nibbled to death by an okapi
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quote:
Originally posted by Octavia:
When Thorn's not here she gets other stuff. Yesterday Glen Miller for some classic big-band tchoons. So I have only myself to blame for having Chatanooga Choo-Choo on the brain for four hours this morning.

For similar reasons, I've had a rotation of They Might Be Giants running rampant through my head all day today.

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Give 'em .0139 fathoms and they'll take 80 chains.

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