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I don't think there's any F1 fans here, but I must say that yesterday was excellent. The US Grand Prix in which nine of the twelve teams had tyres which couldn't cope with the track, so only three teams "raced". Six cars on the track, and the mighty Schumacher takes another controversial victory.
That's why he's the greatest racing driver in history. Because he's a ruthless cad and bounder who's willing to say, "You fucked up and have completely useless tyres, and you'd like to redesign the track so you can race? Heh heh, good one. Ten points for me then."
With only six cars on the track, he still managed to barge his own team mate out the way as he came out of the pit lane. What a swine. I love him.
There's people blaming Ferrari for this, but Ferrari did everything exactly right. The other teams and the other drivers need to look at Schumacher and say, "That bloke's a complete c**t. God, wouldn't F1 be exciting if we were all complete c**ts?"
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Michelin essentially said to their teams that the tyres wouldn't cope with a full race with that final banked curve. It's not really the fault of the teams, but it's essentially a cock up on the part of Michelin and the FIA, who should have worked together a little better on this one. It's a bit worrying that their tyre, which is essentially meant to be the best quality tyre they make, canot stand up to race use, on a track which is used regularly for other races of similar speeds. Especially since these tyres are licenced by the FIA for race use in F1.
This is really the result of the FIA rule stating that teams must use the same tyres for the entire race. Considering Ralph Schumachers almighty spill on this corner last year, that could potentially have been crippling (backwards at nearly 190mph into the wal after the tyres gave up) I don't think any driver would have risked using the same tyres for a full race.
MS was hardly being ruthless in runnning the race, since his Bridgestone tyres were safe for the job.
It's a complete farce for all concerned, and the only thing the FIA could do to redeem themselves, is to disallow any points given for the race and refund the spectators, who undoubtedly felt extremely ripped off.
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I actually didnt think I would watch the whole race but it went by surprisingly fast. I must admit though, secretly I was willing the crowd to riot. Lets face it, we all like a good crash and a riot on live TV would top that any day.
I blame Ecklestone. Not for screwing up the tires but for screwing up the whole sport. He's like the Robert Mugabe of the racing world.
But yeah, Schumacher, wot a c**t. Its great isn't it? Beats the shit out of that miserable bastard Raikkonen.
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: This is really the result of the FIA rule stating that teams must use the same tyres for the entire race. Considering Ralph Schumachers almighty spill on this corner last year, that could potentially have been crippling (backwards at nearly 190mph into the wal after the tyres gave up) I don't think any driver would have risked using the same tyres for a full race.
I dont think changing tires would have made much difference this time around. It wasn't a case of the wear on the tire but the load placed as it went around turn 13. I think if the drivers were allowed to change tires they still would not have raced.
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I used to love Formula 1, and would watch each race without fail. However the last few years it has become stale, boring and predictable. I haven't watched a Grand Prix in probably 2 years subsequently, so when I read articles like this it just goes to ensure that I am not missing anything. Maybe if the breakaway F1 goes ahead I might put a look in, but until then, I'll stick to the football.
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: To be fair, up until this point it has been the most entertaining and exciting GP I've seen in years.
For sure but its a long way off the days when Senna, Mansell and Prost were all going at it. Fights in the pits, swearing in the interviews. It was great. Now you have the Finnish answer to Jim Carey.
quote:Originally posted by squeegy: For sure but its a long way off the days when Senna, Mansell and Prost were all going at it. Fights in the pits, swearing in the interviews. It was great.
There is something of a dearth of characters at the moment. Schumacher is old school, though he never seems to do pit lane chats with Martin Brundle which is a terrible loss as future generations will look back at Schumacher and ask what he was like and how come we've got miles of footage of Rubens and Jenson gassing away and squat all of Michael.
It must be a sad era for characters in F1 if David Coulthard is starting to appear charismatic.
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MS is signed up with some German TV station so nobody else is allowed to speak to him.
My clone, and current championship leader, Fernando Alonso, is my current favorite driver. It used to be Jensen Button but I sensed it all going arse over tit when there were all those rumours last year about him leaving BAR, and then having to drive another season with a team who knew he didn't want to be there. The cheating thing just added insult to injury.
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Let me tell you about how Formula 1 could be improved.
Firstly, abolish the pit-stop. It seems to me now that the way to win a race it just to do a pit-stop faster than everyone else. To make it actually be about cars and driving, the cars and drivers should decide who wins, not the people who can jack up a car and change the wheels quickest. If you run out of petrol, tough. If you use the wrong tires, tough.
Secondly, they should remove all restrictions about the cars. Electronics, mechanics, chemistry, the lot. Anything goes -- engineers should be able to do whatever they want. And the cars, provided they don't exceed some sane length or width should be allowed to be designed however. If they want to add a jet engine to the back or power them with fusion reactors, fine. There should be no safety regulations at all. And that goes for seatbelts as well. Just goggles so the drivers can actually see. Then, when the drivers realise that if they actually fuck up, the WILL die, it will become a more interesting race. And when the fans see the bodies come flying out of the cars, that would be excellent.
I have similar ideas about how to improve football. That too is essentially to abolish all the rules. Goal-hanging, professional fouls (whatever they are), barging, spitting, hairpulling, kicking in the knees, grabbing of the bollocks, anything goes. It's a bit like Fight Club. Acutally, it's more like Fight Club than I realised, the first two rules could be you do not talk about football. That would be ace.
[ 20.06.2005, 09:34: Message edited by: statist ]
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Statist, the part of the pit stop that takes the most time is refuelling, not changing the tyres, and since all of the teams use the same specification fuelling systems to get the fuel in the car, each pitstop takes basically the same amount of time, depending on pit strategy. It's also not allowed for teams to change a tyre and cars must use the same 4 tyres for the entire race, regardless.
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I don't really understand this story (but then, I've never really understood F1). Whose fault is it?
I like statist's suggestions. I've always thought F1 could become more of a sport and less of a mechanics convention by having the drivers turn up and drawing lots for which car they drive.
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quote:Originally posted by Ringo: Statist, the part of the pit stop that takes the most time is refuelling, not changing the tyres, and since all of the teams use the same specification fuelling systems to get the fuel in the car, each pitstop takes basically the same amount of time, depending on pit strategy. It's also not allowed for teams to change a tyre and cars must use the same 4 tyres for the entire race, regardless.
Ah, right. I had no idea they couldn't change the tires any more. See, it's been a while since I watched Formula 1. So, we should change that to something like "to make it about cars and driving, the pit-stop should be abolished so that it's not about who can slow down and speed up the fastest in the pits or about one-stop or two-stop or n-stop strategies". It looks like the Formula 1 guys are at least on the right track.
Can you advertise cigarettes? I do hope so.
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Actually, I had very similar ideas about athletics using F1 as an analogy. But it was to remove all drugs restrictions, hence making it a pharmaceutical freeforall. The only rule being you couldn't use more than one manufacturer or sponsor. Then, like in car driving, there could be one medal for the athletes and one for the winning pharmaceutical company. I've already got few people on side with this idea; we may submit a proposal to the Olympic committee.
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Well, yes and no. See, it's not a choice of the FIA or the F1 governing body, it's the choice of the country televising the event, so actually depends on locality. Like here for instance, we don't allow it, so you'll not see tobacco sponsorship at Silverstone, but you'll see it in places like Bahrain (sp?) because over there they don't mind it.
There are also other interesting revisions to the rules this year, like them having to use the same engine for two races in a row, meaning that every other race you get a lot of peoples' engines blowing up.
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quote:Originally posted by Ringo: There are also other interesting revisions to the rules this year, like them having to use the same engine for two races in a row, meaning that every other race you get a lot of peoples' engines blowing up.
How is that an interesting revision to the rules? So previously they only had to use an engine for one race, right? So the engineers used to design the engines so that they could do one race but not that much more, is that right? But, in order to win, they would have to push the boundaries, surely -- engineers know how to do that. So now they make engines last a bit longer -- probably they provide a little less power or weigh a little more or something. I don't see how this make it more interesting.
If they said, for example, same engine for the whole season, I could at least understand a bit. Then they would have to play it safe or be losing a lot of performance towards the end of the season. Actually, that may be quite good in itself.
[ 20.06.2005, 10:21: Message edited by: statist ]
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You'd be surprised. Don't forget that these engines have to put up with at least a thousand miles of the most extreme punishment you could imagine. Then if you factor in degredation between races (you'd be amazed at the speed with with precision metalwork can start to oxodise). These engines don't just become less powerful with more miles, they'll develop fatal problems. Consider that they're extracting the fat end of 900 horsepower from a 3 litre engine, and expecting that to remain reliable at 18k rpm for sustained periods of over 2 hours at a time, in varying air temperatures, and you realise that the technical expertise involved in making these engines last for one race in incredible, let alone two.
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Statist in recent years the FIA have taken measures to slow the cars down. The engines could go a heck of a lot faster than they currently do but it would simply be too fast.
The current challenge is to build an engine that can perform but be reliable too. Most revisions to the rules are in an attempt to slow the cars down as they are simply beoming too fast. Even the new tyre regs mean a reduction in speed. Ironically though it doesnt seem to be working as the cars often break previous records.
Personally, I would like to see a reduction in electronic gizmos and get back to stick-shift, gun-ho racing of ye olde days.
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Yes, it's an interesting point really, that so many advances have resulted from the FIA simply tying to slow down the cars. Consider that in the mid 80's, your average F1 engine was producing around 1500bhp, compared to todays cars which have much lower power outputs, yet still manage to consistently beat old lap records. It would be interesting to see what kind of vehicles they would end up with if all of the rules which were intended to slow down the cars, were abolished. So no grooved tyres, no stupid aerodynamic revisions, no strict weight restrictions, just a bunch of people creating what should be the pinnacle of automotive achievement. That would be worth seeing.
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sadly I havent had time to read all folks posts on this thread just wanted to stick my oar in as I havent had anything to say for a while, still havent actually. This sucked more ass than anything in motor sport, I am extremely pissed off as I cut short my fantastic game of football in which I scored two goals and would likely have scored a third to watch this fucking travesty. FIA:- bunch of *****
posted
Didn't it make it all a bit more interesting? Like, I don't know, if before the FA cup final half the players from each team have to pull out because their boots don't have the right type of studs on, so the game is actually played as a headers-and-vollies five-a-side, shirts and skins, with rush goalies.
quote:Originally posted by mart: Didn't it make it all a bit more interesting? Like, I don't know, if before the FA cup final half the players from each team have to pull out because their boots don't have the right type of studs on, so the game is actually played as a headers-and-vollies five-a-side, shirts and skins, with rush goalies.
I suppose the football analogy would be better suited to a scenario whereby everyone pulls out of the World Cup Finals, except for Brazil, Afghanistan and Luxemburg.
quote:Originally posted by mart: Didn't it make it all a bit more interesting? Like, I don't know, if before the FA cup final half the players from each team have to pull out because their boots don't have the right type of studs on, so the game is actually played as a headers-and-vollies five-a-side, shirts and skins, with rush goalies.
quote:Originally posted by fish: I suppose the football analogy would be better suited to a scenario whereby everyone pulls out of the World Cup Finals, except for Brazil, Afghanistan and Luxemburg.
Not quite so exciting now, is it?
But they'd only be pulling out for one match. The rest of the tournament/season continues, and it's much closer this year than it has been for the last couple. (Last week's Canadian GP ended with Schumacher 1.137 secs behind Kimi Raikkonen.)
Now, imagine the World Cup analogy being caused by Adidas supplying faulty boots which could explode if a footballer ran too fast. But Brazil, Afghanistan and Luxembourg had Nike boots which were fine. Instant tournament points to the Nike wearers. Would a single one of them turn down those points in the interests of "fair play" and "sportsmanship"? Yeah, 'course. How about if the Adidas teams could play, but the goals would have to be moved to within twenty feet of each other? That's not a football game.
Your analogy does work. That would be a fabulous story for the World Cup. Imagine the acrimony, the debate, the hatred that would be flying around in all directions. It's splendid value, quite seperate from the sporting spectacle itself, and it's something which has always set F1 apart from many other sports - there's that blatant caddishness and ruthless attitude which has always been there at the top of the motor racing world, and this is just another episode in that long history.
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