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» TMO Talk » Media Junkies » what have you been reading and watching (Page 23)

 
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Author Topic: what have you been reading and watching
Ringo

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I genuinely love the Blue Brothers. It's hard to think of a single criticism of it.
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Benny the Ball
"oh, hold me"
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Doesn't T3 have a scene where the female robot controls a car, and changes it's gears with her mind? If it does, that's just rubbish, isn't it?

anyway here, look at this:
5 reasons terminator franch' makes no sense

and this:
salvation abridged script

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If Chuck Norris is late, time better slow the fuck down

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dang65
it's all the rage
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quote:
Originally posted by Ringo:
It's like looking at Van Gogh's Sunflowers next to a piece of paper that a 3 year old has scribbled all over with an orange crayon and saying "yeah well I accept that for some people the 3 year old's drawing lacks something compared to Van Gogh's, but to be honest I just really like the colour orange so I find them both equally enjoyable"

Yeah, and...?
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dang65
it's all the rage
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quote:
Originally posted by Benny the Ball:
anyway here, look at this:
5 reasons terminator franch' makes no sense

Oh dear. Now Thorn and Ringo will never be able to enjoy T1 & T2 again. They must be two of the most implausable, badly-written films ever made. No wonder T3 just did whatever it fucking wanted when it only had that drivel to work from.

[Frown]

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Thorn Davis

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Surely most of those no-fucking-sense points are there because of the third film? The mini-nukes in the abdomen, the no-fate contradiction and the alternate timeline are all generated by Terminator 3.

The paradox about Reese being John Connor's father isn't really nonsense at all - it's a clever co-opting of scientific theory on the nature of time for the purposes of pulp entertainment. Terminator 2 threatening to change the future is a bit more dodgy, but it's never made clear in that film whether or not the characters succeeded in averting Judgment Day. They hope they have, but by not comitting itself either way, the film doesn't contradict the events of the first movie. That's until T3 comes staggering into the room and completely demolishes any sense whatsoever.

The '3 assassination attempts per user' thing is explained in the first movie. Skynet has already lost the war, humans have "smashed its central defence grid" and infiltrated its base. It can't keep sending Terminators back - it sends back the T-1000, of which there is just one because it's a prototype, and its workhorse T-800 and then the humans are all up in the base wrecking shit, and taking over the Time Displacement Equipment for themselves. Again, that makes sense until the third movie staggers in and vomits all over continuity by making it so the TX is the latest production line Terminator, the t-800 is now obsolete and consequently implying that there was a big gap in Skynet sending back its various assassins and begging the question raised in the article as to why it wasn't busy sending out terminators all day and all night.

So it all makes sense, until you introduce Terminator-fucking-3 into the equation.

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dang65
it's all the rage
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quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Davis:
So it all makes sense, until you introduce Terminator-fucking-3 into the equation.

Not so fast. You haven't explained how the pure metal Terminator gets through the time machine in T2 yet. That alone makes it completely unwatchable for me. (Apart from when I just fucking shut up and watch it, that is.)
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Ringo

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Yeah I thought it was all pretty clear from the first two films. Skynet is knackered, so as a last-ditch attempt at saving itself, its final act is to send back two terminators - one to kill John before he's born, and the other to kill him when he's a teenager. But neither attempt succeeds because the resistance send back Reese and the Good Terminator who manage to stop the T800 and T1000 respectively.

The whole point of the Miles Dyson story arc is that it's meant to be an oversight of the characters. Dyson is working on recreating the technology from the smashed Terminator, but he's not the guy responsible for creating Skynet. If he was successful it would only bring closer the date for Judgement Day. But since he's killed and his research destroyed, the timeline remains the same, so there's not really a paradox as such.

Until the third film comes along and fucks everything up.

The only paradox is that of Reese being Connor's father, but this can be axplained away as well if you consider that in theory the John Connor that the T800 is sent back to kill might not originally be Reese's son, but a John Connor that Sarah may have gone on to conceive otherwise. But when Reese bones Sarah he changes the future slightly, and becomes John's father instead. Probably changing the person that John was going to become, and potentially making him an even better leader in the future. But since all the events which take place during the timeline happen within this paradox, it doesn't actually 'not work' as such. You just need to look at it as the future having already been changed from the moment that Reese and the T800 arrive back in time, and all the events and story elements which take place from that point onwards are based on this altered timeline.

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Thorn Davis

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quote:
Originally posted by dang65:
Not so fast. You haven't explained how the pure metal Terminator gets through the time machine in T2 yet. That alone makes it completely unwatchable for me. (Apart from when I just fucking shut up and watch it, that is.)

Yeah, I actually never liked that ever since I was a kid. But we've only got Kyle Reece's word for it that it didn't work. Maybe he didn't fully understand how iot worked himself - he didn't build the fucking thing. He also thought that he was the only one sent back, and that they destroyed it after he went through, all of which he was wrong about, because he's just a character with his own perspective, rather than omniscient keeper of all the secrets.

Also the 'liquid metal' is very clearly layman's terms for the 'ememetic poly-alloy' the T-1000 is made of. The properties of that may be sufficiently close to living tissue to allow the T-1000 to go back.

Anyway. I like to imagine a scene where John explains to Reece:

John: Kyle, you need to go back and protect my mother from the terminator.

Kyle: No problem. I'll get my gun.

John: No. No guns. Nothing dead will go. It's just him and you.

Kyle: Right. Him and me. How do I stop him.

John: I guess you'll have to wing it.

Kyle: Right you are.

BLUE LIGHT. KYLE Disappears.

Soldier: Hey, Connor! There's this other setting on the console. It's got a 'living tissue' and a 'non-organic setting'. We could have sent back an arsenal for him.

John: lol. Stupid us!

Soldier: lol.

[ 09.06.2009, 12:41: Message edited by: Thorn Davis ]

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Thorn Davis

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Here's another thing. I always quite liked the idea that the human's misinterpreted the first terminator as an assassination attempt, and that in actual fact Skynet sent the first Terminator back in time because it knew that unless the smashed chip ended up in the factory, it would never exist. In doing so it also facilitated it's own eventual death at the hands of John Connor, but it was willing to do that because to live and then die was preferable to never having lived at all.
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Thorn Davis

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That's wild speculation on my part though. It's not fully supported by anything else in the films and it doesn't really explain why Skynet has to keep being such a dick about everything.
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Ringo

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The two films are largely concerned with the nature of causality though aren't they. Another reading could be that when Reese was sent back, it was from a future which ceased to exist when the timeline was changed by the arrival of the terminator and him fathering John Connor instead of whoever his natural father was meant to be. So at the start of T2 the future has changed - the two sent back aren't Reese and the T800 but a T800 and the T1000, and the technology was different/more advanced because of the contributions of Miles Dyson who would otherwise have had nothing to do with it were it not for the existance of the smashed T800. When you get into that kind of thinking, then none of the information that Kyle has about the future in the first film is necessarily true because the future has been changed. Then when Dyson is killed as a result of information from the second T800, the timeline is changed once again, to a totally retarded timeline shown in T3 where the charaters have become camp charicatures of themselves and delicate storytelling no longer exists.
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Benny the Ball
"oh, hold me"
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There was a great one shot comic book that was set around the time of the first book - it basically said that because the system was pretty much smash (skynet) and a lot of information lost about Sarah Conner, they sent back a hand full of Terminators to take out the ones that they knew about and when they knew about them and told the story of a different Sarah Conner being protected by a different resistance person. It also said that the resistance sent back a handful of people to protect her at various points in time.

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If Chuck Norris is late, time better slow the fuck down

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Thorn Davis

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Went to see the baffling, tortuously long and utterly awful piece of right wing, racist propaganda Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen yesterday afternoon. Anyone who thought the first one was bad (it is) needs to stay well clear of this one. A movie that's not just staggeringly inept but also insidiously pernicious, it's possibly the worst mainstream film I've ever seen. Not only is it as bad as Van Helsing, but at 150 minutes it's very bad for a very long time.

First up. It's a kids movie, but I would strongly advise against taking kids to see it, unless you're attempting to teach them that it's OK to worship a bunch of racist, sexist, violence-as-pleasure-seeking motherfuckers. The Autobots in this film are a bunch of right wing jerks, who will happily put a bullet in the brain of a helpless sentient being. One Decepticon at the start of the film is wounded, helpless and says "this planet is not yours to rule!" Optimus Prime tells him to fuck off and puts a bullet in his brain. Jesus Christ Optimus! What the hell happened to you! You used to be merciful, just and pacifist! Ever since you got that flame job over your rims you've turned some kind of NRA, Republican fuckhead.

The human characters aren't much better. The chick from the first film, now more pneumatic and degraded than ever, cheerfully indulges in torture. You remember how in Raiders of the Lost Ark, the Evillest Nazi in The World is about to burn someone's eye out with a poker? This is what the good characters in Transformers actually go ahead and do. Not only that, she even jokes about it to her mates in front of her victim. This is how they get the information they need. Then on they plough with their inane adventure.

The plot is a hopeless mishmash of MacGuffins and muddled backstory, as people career around looking for various ancient artifacts in scenes lifted from other, better, sci-fi films. There's even a pointless strand lifted direct from The Dark Knight, where the Decepticons demand the Shia turn himself in. It goes nowhere. None of it goes anywhere. There's a lot of noise, and babble, and in one mystical moment where it turns out that the 'key' everyone was chasing can only be wielded by the pure of heart blah blah, you realise that there was no point in any of the good guys getting involved at all. The Decepticons wouldn't have been able to turn on the Super Death Machine anyway because it can only be operated by someone pure and brave and... what kind of pure and brave person is going to want to operate a Super Death Machine anyway? Oh that's right. An American seeking to uphold American values.

Indeed, as much as it's a CGI showreel the movie's also a showcase for Giant American Machines of Death. Gunships, tanks, jets, aircraft carriers, even a frikkin' rail-gun is deployed at one point. All of this hardware is so flawlessly and brilliantly efficient, that you have to question why we even need the Transformers on our side. The Jesus Army For The Protection of White America is so perfect and well-equipped, so incapable of meeting a threat that will not crumble under The Might of the Great American Military that the Transformers look oddly feeble by comparison. Their ultimate Big Bad is felled by one well aimed shot from a battleship, several miles away. America! Fuck Yeah!

So apart from being a two and a half hour propaganda piece for "America!", it's also amazingly - breathtakingly - racist. I don't remember ever cringeing with embarrassment in a film before, but there's two characters in this film (christened elsewhere on the internet as The Sambots) who make Jar-Jar Binks look like a tasteful approach to racial characterisation.

These 'twins' have exaggerated simian features, buck teeth, and talk in a kind of gangster patois that sounds like something Snorton would use to mock black people. They claim to be illiterate "We don' really do readin'". They're clumsy imbeciles. They are the worst examples of racial stereotyping that I have seen in a film made in my lifetime and just incase Michael Bay thought you might miss what they represent, he throws in a completely pointless moment with a black character who has exactly the same teeth and dimwitted mannerisms as his robot counterparts. It's like, rather than accidentally being insensitive, he drew a big arrow onto the film and said "This. This is what these two robots are standing in for. This." Elsewhere, there's a 'comedy' Italian stereotype robot who hilariously gets his eyes burnt out, and then - yes - tries to fuck Megan Fox's leg while shouting "oh! Oh yeah baby!". In some ways it's hard to believe that this was a real film, rather than some weird, bewildering dream.

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dang65
it's all the rage
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I'll probably really enjoy it then.
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Black Mask

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quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Davis:


These 'twins' have exaggerated simian features, buck teeth, and talk in a kind of gangster patois that sounds like something Snorton would use to mock black people. They claim to be illiterate "We don' really do readin'".

They're apparently called Mudflap and Skidz... Nice.

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sweet

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Thorn Davis

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quote:
Originally posted by dang65:
I'll probably really enjoy it then.

I'd like to see you try.
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Thorn Davis

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Also - I forgot to mention this - one of the robots has giant bollocks. John Turturro stands underneath them and says "I am standing directly under the enemy's scrotum". Then a railgun shoots the scrotum off.

I'm having to fact-check this stuff online, because I'm struggling to believe it was actually in the film. There's also a bit where Shia LaBoeuf's mum eats a hash cake and rugby tackles a jock to the ground to try and she chases after frisbees like a dog.

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Ringo

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Obviously there are plenty of bigger criticisms than this, but this movie annoys me because basically all of the transformers turn into GM cars. The cartoon was ace because they all turned into different stuff like trucks and tanks and race cars and cassette players, and junk. Now you have the chevrolet corvette. the other corvette. the chevy beat. the chevy trax. the GMC van. etc etc.

Where's the Porsche, the F1 car, the Lambo, the Beetle?

Rubbish, all of it.

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Cherry In Hove
Channel 39
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You're making it up now.
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Ringo

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Oh also, according to google, the sambots were originally meant to combine into a pink ice cream van. You couldn't make this shit up.
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New Way Of Decay

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quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Davis:
These 'twins' have exaggerated simian features, buck teeth, and talk in a kind of gangster patois that sounds like something Snorton would use to mock black people. They claim to be illiterate "We don' really do readin'". They're clumsy imbeciles. They are the worst examples of racial stereotyping that I have seen in a film made in my lifetime and just incase Michael Bay thought you might miss what they represent, he throws in a completely pointless moment with a black character who has exactly the same teeth and dimwitted mannerisms as his robot counterparts.

quote:
Originally posted by Black Mask:
They're apparently called Mudflap and Skidz... Nice.

LOL, one google later and I found this picture titled appropriately. Meesa gonna boogie.

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BUY A TICKET AND WATCH SOME METAL

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Thorn Davis

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quote:
Originally posted by Ringo:
Oh also, according to google, the sambots were originally meant to combine into a pink ice cream van. You couldn't make this shit up.

Not originally meant to - this is how they make their first appearance. As an ice-cream truck with "Decepticons can suck my popsicle" written on the side. God. At this point 'Skids' and 'Mudflap' combine into the same ice cream van - like two men in a pantomime horse. Once they get their concept car alternate mode, the idea that they combine is completely forgotten.

Also - the GM thing Ringo mentions is a major problem for the film. It renders the autobots largely indistinguishable from each other. When they were iconic car designs like Porsches, Lamborghinis or whatever it was easy to tell them apart, and those designs could be recognised in robot modes as well. As it is, they all look like clones of each other.

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Ringo

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It also cocks up the concept behind some of the characters. Bumblebee is the most obvious example. In the cartoon Bumblebee is the link between the Autobots and the humans. He transforms into a VW Beetle, the 'car for the people', which represents the kind of cars people buy when they're first learning to drive. Bumblebee's friendship with Daniel is analogous of the kind of relationship you build with your first car. In the film he's a tricked out aspirational supercar. And in the first film he can't speak.

Transformers is hardly the deepest cartoon series ever made, being little more than an extended advert for a range of toys, but Bay manages to miss the few subtelties most children were able to understand in the 80s.

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Thorn Davis

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quote:
Originally posted by Cherry In Hove:
You're making it up now.

There's nothing I could make up that is more stupid than what they put in. I haven't even mentioned that there's a Gremlins rip off near the start where Sam is attacked by kitchen appliances, one of which is a waffle-maker with a minigun for a penis.

Also, for some reason the film keeps cutting away to footage of a chihuahua trying to have sex with a bulldog (might be a mastiff, actually). It doesn't really have anything to do with anything. One of the characters comments on it in an off-hand kind of way. But other than that it's like "Giant Robots Fighting... Giant Robots Fighting... Chihuahua Trying to Mount Bulldog (Might Be A Mastiff)... Giant Robots Fighting". With no explanation.

I joked to Octavia when we came out that the barrage of imagery and story and dialogue were so disconnected that maybe the film was meant to be the world's most avant-garde blockbuster. Writing this out, it makes me wonder if that really was what they were going for.

[ 22.06.2009, 08:22: Message edited by: Thorn Davis ]

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Ringo

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I tried doing a search for info about that, because I simply can't believe that could be true. But all I got back were loads of reviews of Beverly Hills Chihuahua

This really does feel like the worst ever decade for films doesn't it.

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Thorn Davis

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Best I can manage to back me up is this story which mentions the dogs humping each other.

I know it sounds ludicrous, but if someone told you the first movie would have Bumblebee pssing in John Turturro's face, you proobably wouldn't believe that, either.

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Thorn Davis

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Aha! this clip features the minigun-penis robot (I think it might be a transformed blender, rather than a waffle maker). It does cut away to the dogs at one point, but not while they're humping.
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Ringo

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Thorn did you ever get round to watching Indiana Jones 4? Your yardstick of Van Helsing being the worst film ever made is a bit out of date now.
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dang65
it's all the rage
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This sounds like my dream movie.

If only they'd hurry up and do Transformers vs Terminators.

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Thorn Davis

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quote:
Originally posted by Ringo:
Thorn did you ever get round to watching Indiana Jones 4? Your yardstick of Van Helsing being the worst film ever made is a bit out of date now.

Well, as of now I think I'd consder TF:ROTF a worse film than Van Helsing. So it sets the new benchmark of awful.

I never did get to seeing Krystal Skull, and I can't imagine I'll bother buying it or renting it. Watching crap movies at home feels like a bigger waste of time than seeing them at the cinema. At least at the pictures there's a sense of experience, and you go for a drink afterwards and have a laugh about it, and there's usually nothing else on. Watching something crap at home means you've chosen to watch that instead of any other film that's ever been made.

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New Way Of Decay

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quote:
Originally posted by Ringo:
It also cocks up the concept behind some of the characters. Bumblebee is the most obvious example. In the cartoon Bumblebee is the link between the Autobots and the humans. He transforms into a VW Beetle, the 'car for the people', which represents the kind of cars people buy when they're first learning to drive. Bumblebee's friendship with Daniel is analogous of the kind of relationship you build with your first car.... Transformers is hardly the deepest cartoon series ever made, being little more than an extended advert for a range of toys, but Bay manages to miss the few subtelties most children were able to understand in the 80s.

Sorry to be a massive pedant here, but Bumblebee has a relationship with Spike (who is supposed to be Sam Witwicky from the film) and Daniel is Spike's son who builds a friendship with Hot Rod in the animated film. The point still stands though. Mostly in the cartoon bumblebee strives to understand the humans culture (for some reason a mayan village girl suggests Bumblebee wants to fuck a car. Hmmm) and Daniel and Hot Rod both share a similar desire to be treated with respect and 'grown up' by their peers. Your comment still stands though. Sam just wants Bumblebee to fuck a shallow chick. The fact it does get him laid AND turn into a giant robot is actually just really annoying.

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Ringo

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Heh I have that episode on DVD, where Bumblebee manages to smile, despite being a car. Actually, maybe that's your DVD and I never gave it back to you. Hmm

Yeah, I thought Daniel might be wrong, but I thought searching out the facts would make me some kind of enormous geek, and the only person likely to spot the mistake was you anyway.

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New Way Of Decay

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Well it's good that the things I like finally came to some good eh!?

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BUY A TICKET AND WATCH SOME METAL

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Ringo

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Every dog has his day
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Thorn Davis

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It's a pug. Not a bulldog, or a mastiff, but a pug.

quote:
Sights I am trying hard to forget include John Turturro in a posing pouch, and a chihuahua humping a pug - a 'gag' considered so hilarious by Bay, and so well suited to viewing by children, that he includes it three times.
I'd forgotten about the bit with the posing pouch. They have the camera right up close, so John Turturro's ass is up on the screen, 50 ft tall.
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