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Apparently if you're a disgusting, sickly, fat bastard it's not your fault. As with everything else, someone else is to blame for the fact that you haul your bloated frame behind the wheel of the car every time you want to go to the shops, that you spend all your leisure time on the sofa mblobbing your way into a state of flabby despair, and that rather than eating muesli and vegetables every single meal you eat is a ten inch high plate of pasta and pig fat covered in a chocolate and treacle sauce.
Is this an honest account of the situation? Have we been taken hostage by the sedentary lifestyle of the 21st century and herded into workstations, cooped up to the extent that we have no choice but to get fat and ill? Is taking the onus off the individual to get healthy a mistake? One quote that suprised me was the comment that "It's suprising that anyone manages to keep thin", which seems like a bit of a cop out. I know we've had a few obesity threads on here in the past, but this slant that it's society's fault is a new one. Is it true, or is it false?
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No, it's very much the fault of the fatties. I mean, to a certain extent there's a few societal influences, but generally speaking people should be aware of what shite they're shovelling into their mouths and how much/little exercise they're getting.
The only reason for this mollycoddling gobshite, is that it's costing such a huge amount of money patching them up when their bodies inevitably break.
If society is to blame, it's in simply making it 'ok' to be fat. It's telling that, if you watch a film from 20 years ago which contains a character who is meant to be 'fat' they'd be considered pretty skinny by today's standards. It's a slippery, fat coated slope.
But throwing your hands up and saying "It's not my fault I'm fat, it's the evil food companies who keep putting calories in cakes" isn't helpful to anyone.
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One thing that does annoy me, though, is the way the rise of private gyms seems to have lead to the closure of council funded sports centres. Back where I grew up - in a part of the country that isn't particuarly densely populated - there were three sports centres in cycling distance that didn't require membership and were subsidised by the council. In Wimbledon I couldn't find anywhere to play squash that didn't cost, like, £30 a month and an extra £7 when you actually wanted to use a court. I'm sure handing over control of fitness facilities to private enterprises that then come up with joining fees and monthly tariffs that exploit your feeling of guilt more than they provide you with great services, has probably not helped the case.
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AND, while fatness is mainly the fault of lazy fat 'it's not my fault the government makes me drive everywhere' mindset, there is a teensy bit of of fault at the feet of the food industry, which makes everything bigger and in bigger packets, as it's cheaper for them, which people buy, then think 'might as well eat that last cake, as it's a shame to waste it'. And because it's such nutritionally empty food, you still feel empty after eating the first three of said cakes.
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you could say that putting the onus on the individual is what causes it. Let people do what they like and they're going to seek pleasure. If it's up to individuals rather than society, then who even cares? We're all individuals, therefore if we chose to eat until we're dead, it's our problem. However, if you want to tackle it from the standpoint of the 'health of the nation', then you have to view the problem as being one of society, rather than individuals. You can't 'fix' individuals, but you can regulate society. Attitude - what you consider to be your responsiblities - can be seen as being received from ' society'. It all depends if you even believe in society at all. Being thatchers kids, most of us don't. I'm thinking of the phrase "I'm alright Jack" - "Narrow-focus, narrow-gauge pseudo-Darwinian selfishness glorified as a sensible philosophy of society and life". That's pretty much how we are these days.
I don't think that saying 'it's society's fault' is helpful, because it's used as a phrase to attack the concept of mutual responsibility, and society in general. But to tackle a "national problem", you're going to have to look at the problem on that level, and therefore look for the causes on that level too. Otherwise, who cares, fuck it, screw everybody.
[ 17.10.2007, 06:01: Message edited by: Jimmy Big Nuts ]
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quote:Originally posted by Jimmy Big Nuts: Let people do what they like and they're going to seek pleasure.
I don't think this is necessarily cause and effect - it seems to adopt a position that basically people are incapable of behaving in any way other than simply as a bunch of unruly kids when their parents go out. It's clearly possible for people to take a long term view, to understand a lifetime picture rather than just thinking about the moment right in front of them. Like when you choose not to get wasted because you know you'll feel like hammered shit in the morning. I don't know. I suppose the rising obesity levels do suggest that Benway's right and people are incapable of being left on their own, needing some kind of super being watching over them and telling them not to just shovel shovelful after shovelful of chocolate eclairs into their maw.
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I'm not suggesting that people behave like unruly kids. I'm not really attacking people, or expressing hatred for people who sit around eating all day, and I didn't mean to suggest that fatness is only a result of hedonistic binges on cakes. It's more that eating is an easy, quick, and cheap pleasure, and the cheaper and quicker it is, the worse for you it's likely to be.
I'm able to accept that not everybody is like me, not everybody has a paternal disciplinarian inside their mind that keeps them on the protestant work ethic. Not everybody is born or raised in an environment to gift them with the natural tenacity to "get on their bike and look for work". Obviously the super-educated, image-obsessed, Eloi like you and I have the money and the energy and the pressure to look after ourselves. But not everybody does. To see it simply as slackness seems a bit... I don't know. Uncaring, and easy. Simplifying things. But you're right about facilities. They aren't there so much these days. Maybe the Olypmics will get us all running around and jumping in the air again.
But I'm not suggesting that we need some kind of daily collective morning workout, delivered via our single channel 'citizen communication devices'. I don't know how to deal with societal problems in the face of a bunch of individualists. I'm not out there campaigning, getting involved or trying to make a difference, so I'm not living up to any socialist ideal. But I think it's healthy to accept that we do have a collective responsiblity.
[ 17.10.2007, 06:34: Message edited by: Jimmy Big Nuts ]
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quote:Originally posted by Jimmy Big Nuts: O look, we're having another argument.
Isn't that what TMO is for, though? Also, I can't believe I had to look up Eloi. I fear that my memory is fading.
OK, I take your point about collective responsibility and to be fair to that research the upshot isn't, as the headlines declare, that "It's no longer fat people's fault", but rather that the issue needs to be considered on the level of what society promotes. It does stress the role of an individual but seems to emphasise that that can't be the only approach.
I think what we need os a greater number of slim, attractive people in the public eye, on the covers of magazines, in pop bands etc and - as Ringo starts to suggest - a lowering of the weight at which it's acceptable to mock someone for being a disgusting fat c**t. Hopefully that should give people the motivation they need to pull on their running shoes and get fit!
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anyway, I think we've sewed this one up, unless anybody else wants to come in and make an ass out of themselves in the face of such towering intellectualism.
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quote:Originally posted by Jimmy Big Nuts: anyway, I think we've sewed this one up, unless anybody else wants to come in and make an ass out of themselves in the face of such towering intellectualism.
What about fat people who are fat not because of over-eating or laziness, but because of a glandular condition? What about them? Huh?
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Nice work Mart, although you better hope Dang doesn't see you poaching on his territory. I remember at a meat one time when we were all sitting around and Philomel finished up a joke with "you can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think!" Everyone laughed at her clever word play, except Dang who just sat there with this little frown on his face. Then, after about ten minutes he dragged Philomel out into the street and shot her once in the back of each knee and left her screaming and sobbing in the gutter. I remember Louche asking him why he shot her in the back of the knee. It was something to do with not being able to pun on something that doesn't have a name. Anyway. Good work, but watch your back, yeah?
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I don't think the collective responsibility of society should really extend much beyond making people understand that it's their own responsibility to regulate their health and live their lives in a way which is not likely to result in them inflicting diseases and ailments upon themselves. Otherwise what is the solution? food rationing? enforced weekly appointments with a fitness specialist? You can build all the gyms and swimming pools you like but unless people feel some compulsion to use them, it's unlikely to fix the problem. It doesn't cost anything to get on your bike, or go for a walk, in fact in most cases you could save money by doing so. I know it saves me a crapload of money cycling and walking to work and back compared to driving. But most people will tell you they don't have time, or their lifestyle doesn't allow it, etc etc. What society is responsible for is in making these lame excuses acceptable.
Healthy eating is not some miracle innovation of the last ten years. It's no secret that fatty, sugary foods will make you fat and damage your health. In the same way that it's no secret that smoking cigarettes will harm your health. What you're dealing with, really, is a nation of people who are burying their heads in the sand to these issues because they are unwilling to leave their comfort zones and do anything about it.
But like I say, you need to make the individual want to do something about it. You can lead a horse to water, etc etc.
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quote:Originally posted by ralph: What about fat people who are fat not because of over-eating or laziness, but because of a glandular condition? What about them? Huh?
Yeah right. Like, how many people have you actually met with glandular problems, ralph? The oft referred to, never proved claim is rare. My mate Andy, dubbed himself Fat Bastard Andy. His honesty instantly initiated him into our social group as not only the most calls-it-how-he-sees-it, but proudly fattest member of our troop.
But, despite mandatory PE classes, there are always fat kids. Maybe it's mankinds design. It just is. It exists. Maybe the missing link is just a fat bastard ape dude with a cardiac arrest. Like those t-shirts that nerds like me would wear.
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I fell down a small hole last night nackering my foot, so now I can’t cycle or exercise. Soon I will be fat with the masses! LOL!
Anyone want to swap lives? Mine is shit.
I used to work with a girl who claimed to have the thyroid thing, but she had medication for it now so want fat anymore. Mind you, she also claimed to be allergic to carrots and trimmed her split ends at her desk. So.
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To clear that up, the thyroid controls your metabolism, the hypothalamus controls your hunger/ thirst reflexes. Me and Benway should have a biology show on kids' tv.
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quote:Originally posted by ralph: Well, a poorly functioning thyroid gland could affect the metabolism rate. This could cause someone to gain weight. No?
Gain some weight. You get bigger if you eat more. It's not like if you have a glandular problem and eat a bag of peanuts you'll start piling on weight like the Nutty fucking Professor.
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Gain some weight. You get bigger if you eat more. It's not like if you have a glandular problem and eat a bag of peanuts you'll start piling on weight like the Nutty fucking Professor.
Metabolism plays such a huge role in weight gain though. Take me for example. I've always been able to eat anything I like and not have to worry about weight gain. Why? Because it would appear that I've inherited my father's metabolic rate; I tend to burn lots of calories without exercising. Last night I consumed 3,000 calories worth of Ben & Jerry's Brownie Batter ice cream for afters. If my wife did that she'd probably gain some weight. I do it merely to maintain my current weight.
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If you have a thyroid deficiency, you can take a hormone replacement and the problem goes away. There aren't even any side effect like growing tits or whatnot.
People have this misconception that your metabolic rate is a constant - something you're born with which determines how thin or fat you're going to be. Like your cardiovascular fitness, your metabolism can be controlled using exercise. If you're sitting on your arse all day every day doing absolutely nothing, your body's metabolic rate slows.
Even if you have an unnaturally slow metabolism though, all it means is that you should eat less. I mean, it's a really simple formula that people should learn - if the amount of calories you put into your body is greater each day than the amount you burn, you gain weight. While every person burns a different amount of calories in a day, this is still true whether you burn 1500 calories a day, or 5000.
If you have a slow metabolism, exercise more. It's actually not physically possible to do exercise without burning calories.
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