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How many things around you are older than you?
I was asking myself this because I have set Modge the challenge of getting me a Batman comic from Aug 1970 for my birthday. There's the added complication here that the August cover dated Batman would have come out in May or so, but you have to make allowances for that. I thought it would be interesting to have an object more or less exactly my age.
Then I thought: what proportion of things I own in this flat are actually older than me?
You try it! Here's my attempt, off the top of my head though I might look around more later. Reprints or reissues of things that were originally old, like my Sgt Pepper CD, don't count -- the artifact has to have been released to the public before the time of your birth.
the flat itself; the fireplace, brickwork, and I presume most of the fittings like windows. So we can get that out of the way.
a pea coat owned by my dad in the 1960s
the Penguin Book of Comics from 1967
a Catcher in the Rye from 1960
a Hamlet from 1935
Dubliners from 1955
Nineteen Eighty-Four from 1956
three Carroll biographies from 1947, 1952, 1954
the oldest item is, I think, Stuart Collingwood's Life and Letters of Lewis Carroll, third edition 1899.
Unless I'm missing something big, this is a pretty short list for someone into cultural history. My parents' record collection would have a lot of artefacts from the 1960s, but I don't own those...I've got a lot of reprints of comics and so on, but those don't count. I don't have any jewellery or heirlooms. Most of the objects around me are shiny silver things of a type where three years ago equals obsolete. The old-looking stuff I can see from my desk is yellowing newspapers from September 11th 2001. I suppose I am, after all, a "scholar" of contemporary culture for the most part.
It could also be said that I'm not young exactly, and I do have a catchment area of over three decades -- a ten year old might be more likely to possess items released before 1993, but who knows.
Am I unusual? Or are we a generation only interested in owning the new?
posted
It's just occurred to me that the very shirt I am wearing today is older than I am.
I have loads of old clothes. I used to love wearing my grandad's greatcoat, although it's a little warm for the current climate. I've also got a waaay old 9mm projector that my grandad and I fixed up about ten years ago, although I keep this at my parents house so maybe that's cheating by Kovax's rules. However, every time I go to my parents house I have to make a case for holding onto this object, rather than chucking it out, so I do have to take an active role in its survival.
Loads of books, as I have a habit of buying old books in second hand stores. The most notable one is a history book called Modern Europe, dated 1914, which has in the back loads of full colour maps of how things were through the 18th and 19th centuries. Amazing to see how many countries have faded away. I also have a first edition of The Old Man and the Sea, again bought in a second hand shop, but I can't remember the exact date of publication. Older than me though.
A sculpture by F E McWilliam, which I inherited, but I know nothing about it. I have a feeling that most of his work is from the sixties, but I don't know.
Hulk #180, which is the first appearance of Wolverine in a Marvel comic, from about 1970 I think.
A blanket that was bought for my christening.
The house itself, which is early 1900's.
That's about it I think.
I think there is something cool in owning old things. I don't know if I'm unusual in that, but none of my mates show any particular interest in things from the olden days.
edit for spilling.
[ 16 July 2003: Message edited by: My Name Is Joe ]
posted
I live in a 1905 house and about half of the books I have are second-hand; mostly of 1960s-70s vintage. I get a lot of clothes from charity shops so couldn't accurately date them - probably the oldest thing I have is a ceramic wine vessel from the late 18th century that was given to me by a guy I interviewed for my first ever paid writing job (back in 1998 fact fans!).
He'd been doing up an old gamekeeper's lodge and at first thought the garden path was made up of thick, circular clay tiles - when he dug them up he found they were the bases of several hundred of these vessels, dated and stamped and preserved underground for decades.
Coincidentally, I also have a very old copy of Sir Thomas Browne's Urn Buriall on one of my bookshelves.
Aside: I think I started a thread like this about 18 months ago - only to have Kovacs jeer at me, Ringo declare it the "most boring thread [he'd] ever read" and Tav denouncing me for not filling my house with antiques of sufficient elegance.
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I am the proud owner of a knackered brown 70s sofa which was handed down to me by my parents who I believe bought it before I was born. It certainly has history. Many pages in the family photo album have a shot of the sofa - usually with some long-dead relative perched on it. I remember taking the cushions off and making them into a 'spaceship' whilst watching Star Wars and Flash Gordon on telly during the summer holidays when I was about five. But I guess pointless reminiscence is not the purpose of this thread.
I have a collection of old cameras, ranging from the 1920s to the mid 70s. I also have a couple of leather jackets which I can only assume are older than me.
I like a mix of old and new, to be honest. Some items (such as cameras and some clothes) are no longer built like they used to be - or at least not for a sensible price. As mentioned in another thread, you could go out today and buy a 70s Olympus SLR camera in perfect working order - how much would today's equivalent cost?
Some things however, like my MP3 player, are best left to today's technology. I suppose I could buy a vintage walkman but for sheer functionality, nothing can touch the modern equivalent.
If I were to consider buying something old, I would need a good reason (even if it were simply style or price), but I'd never rule it out.
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One of the things that's sad about going back to the farm is seeing how yet another object or feature has been removed, chnged or broken. That place contains what must be thousands of years of object-life.
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quote:Originally posted by My Name Is Joe: Hulk #180, which is the first appearance of Wolverine in a Marvel comic, from about 1970 I think.
That one where Hulk's fighting Wendigo, and Wolverine comes in and has a crack at them both, and then Hulk thinks Wolverine is his friend, and then Wolverine tries to stab him in the face and then Wolverine gets chained up and then this bird's brother swaps places with the Wendigo curse thing, and she cries and Hulk puts a comforting arm around her shoulder?
I only have a few books from before 1971: Howard Spring - I Met a Lady, 1968 (Price: 6'-) P.G. Wodehouse - Laughing Gas, 1959 (Price: 2'6) Raymond Chandler - Killer in the Rain, 1971 (Price: 40p) F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby, 1964 (Price: 3'6)
I have a camera, an Ilford Sporti, that was made sometime in the 60s (I'm guessing). Most of the photos from my childhood, the funny square ones with that light and tone that only exists in photos from your infancy, were taken using this camera. I've half-inched it from my folks' house to see if that same light and tone can be recreated today.
I have two items of clothing from the 50s (I'm guessing again): a lovely dinner jacket and a now rather ragged dress shirt. I'm very fond of both of them.
I own a drumkit from the 60s, with that authentic Ringo Starr oyster-shell pattern. It looks lovely. It was originally owned by a working drummer from that period, and when he died his widow sold it off. A guy in Valencia saw it in the shop and then snapped it up. I bought it off him a couple of years ago.
One last item I would love to include is a monophonic analogue beast of a synthesizer, a Korg MS-20, which was first released in 1978, by which time I was seven years old. But look at it: it's beautiful.
Aphex Twin owns three of them. A modern version was released a couple of years ago, the MS-2000, but it doesn't have anywhere near as much character:
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: That one where Hulk's fighting Wendigo, and Wolverine comes in and has a crack at them both, and then Hulk thinks Wolverine is his friend, and then Wolverine tries to stab him in the face and then Wolverine gets chained up and then this bird's brother swaps places with the Wendigo curse thing, and she cries and Hulk puts a comforting arm around her shoulder?
Sounds familiar, it's definitely set in Canada. To be fair Hulk #181 is more valuable as Wolvie is in the whole comic, and on the cover - in #180 he only appears in the final panel, and is named Weapon X. I bought it when I was about 14 and really into Wolverine. Now that I think about it, I would be hard pressed to find it if asked. Probably in a box somewhere with all the rest of my trappings of geekery!
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That black boned fifties corset with the pointy tits that I have never worn of course: the nylon flower-patterned Versache-gone-to-hell dressing-gown that I make coffee in every morning: the satin dressing-gown with the flower-print that needs stitching, a clutch of forties frocks; the stockings still in the original sixties packaging; the Indian wedding sari; the three plastic macs; the silk scarves, the green suitcase and the green vanity case; the perspex lightshade; the painting of the old lady in the gold frame; the green suede handbag; the coat with the blonde furry collar that nips in sharp at the waist; the red Russian cossack coat with black frogging / piping; the patterned fit'n'flare coat with real fur (ssh!) trim round hem and collar; the cherry red and white platforms (assuming they are forties and not seventies - I can't quite tell); the long black skirt with the embroidered flowers, leaves and bees; the lace and nylon nighties in baby blue, pale pink, hot pink, emerald green, and black: the fluffy sixties moon boots; the everything and the all of it.
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quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I do also own a piece of petrified wood that a student brought me from a (the?) Saudi desert. That's probably millions of years old.
That would be cool. I remember being a bit awed by the petrified tree stump in The Natural History Museum. So old its hard to imagine.
I also have laods of photos now I think of it, of family members in their youth.
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I've got very little that's old, although I tend to buy new stuff that might as well be old: Doc Martin boots, bog standard Timex watch, Swiss Army knife, Land Rover etc etc.
On my desk or in my bag here at work I don't seem to have anything more than about 5 years old at all. Even the pile of cds I brought in today are either fairly recent or remastered reissues.
Have a couple of genuine oldie records at home, but nothing as old as me (b.1965) and a few books which are older than me, and a National Savings book from when I was a baby. Don't know what to do with it really. It's got about 4 shillings in I think. Probably worth 10,000 quid by now, what with inflation and all that. No?
When we moved into our old house, we found a couple of Argos catalogues from about 1973 and 1978 I think it was. Amazing, and a bit disappointing, to find how similar they are to a modern Argos catalogue - even the tech stuff isn't that different, in looks at least. Except we now have CD and DVD and PC.
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I do also own a piece of petrified wood that a student brought me from a (the?) Saudi desert. That's probably millions of years old.
In fairness I don't think that counts - I mean, you could have some crystals or pebbles or stuff and they could be millions of years old, but they'd still be pretty dull. I think you have to restrict it to something that's man-made.
posted
1. A great red top with flowers on - 25p and older than me. 2. Brown suede jacket 3. Nikon camera pre-1970s 4. Countless shoes 5. Yet more clothes. 6. Books 7. Bob Dylan Self Portraint album, it was my dad's but I pinched it because it's got my finger prints all over the vinyl from when I was about 2 years old. 8. Lava lamp
[ 16 July 2003: Message edited by: Spiderwoman2002 ]
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List of things in my flat that are older than me:
1. a bottle green duffle coat that belonged to my grandmother which is lovely and cosy and protects me from the elements every winter.
2. a faux fur trimmed 1976 houndstooth belted coat from Wallis that my mother bought then couldn't wear as she was heavily pregnant with my brother.
3. a navy blue t-shirt with a big red strawberry on it, bought by my mother in Marks and Spencer in 1974.
4. a pale blue t-shirt with two cockerels on it, one with a "real" comb on top of its head, bearing the slogan 'dare to be different' again bought in about 1974 by my mum.
5. 2 programmes from the 1920s for performances by the Ballet Russes de Monte Carlos. 1 programme from the 1960s from a New York City Ballet performance at Covent Garden.
quote:Originally posted by ben: In fairness I don't think that counts - I mean, you could have some crystals or pebbles or stuff and they could be millions of years old, but they'd still be pretty dull. I think you have to restrict it to something that's man-made.
I'm not sure I agree with this. One of the questions Kovacs asked was if old things were important to the current generation. It's true that rocks and so on are pretty insignificant, but thing like petrified wood, fossils and insects trapped in amber do have a sense of history (prehistory?) about them. Like I said earlier, the petrified stump in the NHM affected me quite deeply, but some old man made objects, such as crappy sixties buildings, mean nothing. Maybe it's to do with seeing something that was alive so very long ago, or it being recognisable.
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Plenty of old things I can see right here in front of me in the living room...
A large collection of pre-Snorton era books. There are at least fifty works from prior to 1960, so I will name just a few.
A 1941 edition of Guenther Prien's Mein Weg nach Scapa Flow Hermann Kohl's Wir fliegen gegen England: Einsatz der Luftwaffe (1940) A pristine-condition 1939 edition of Mein Kampf. Of course. An 1881 edition of Aunt Charlotte's stories of Greek History Beethoven by Frederick J. Crowest (1904) One for Kovacs: The Adventures of Alice in Wonderland and through the Looking Glass. There's no date, but it's clearly pre-1950s. Illustrations by Philip Gough. Anna Sewell's Black Beauty: An autobiography of a horse (1902). First edition Guinness Book of Records from 1955.
Add to that a number of pre 1970s records and a Banania tin from the 1950s with a smiling blacke guy. Like this:
[ 16 July 2003: Message edited by: Samuelnorton ]
-------------------- "You ate the baby Jesus and his mother Mary!" "I thought they were animal cookies..."
Items of furniture of intderminate age, but which are probably older than me (a pine kitchen table, kitchen chairs, a wing armchair and a nursing chair I used to think was William Morris, but I realised that it was just covered in William Morris type fabric)
A 1964 Penguin edition of Camus' Exile and the Kingdom
A Langenscheidt's Taschen Wörterbücher English-German dictionary, given to my grandpa in 1935 as a school prize for French.
Ooh, I forgot! A very pretty Victorian garnet and turquoise ring!
But people! Although you may not have anything much around you that has been manufactured in the pre-Ikea age, remember that everything is comprised of atoms that have been around since the dawn of time, for you can neither create nor destroy matter!
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Well, I'm older than all of you, so my old stuff must be really old! Hey, you could always count me in your list ... I'm sort of in your PC ... No? Oh well.
My beautiful antique oak bed, a post-divorce present to myself
An antique oak table.
Some fabulous old fairy-tale books, with illustrations by Arthur Rackham, that were old even when my Mum was a little girl.
Some other books of my Mum's - early Fifties paperbacks kinda thing.
A chaise longue that I've just bought from the junk shop down the road
The outside of my flat, though not much of the inside as I had to knock it all down & start again
My Gran's ruby ring.
If fossils count, then do the stones in my jewellery? If so, quite a few more list items.
An antique carving set that was a present.
Some candlesticks and stuff from my great aunt.
Some other old stuff.
I like old clothes, too, though I keep binning them when I move house I'm very envious of some of your collections.
Actually, we all have lots of stuff older than we are ... Did you know that no part of your body is more than 12 years old? (Carter please verify - or not, as the case may be!)
Louche
Carved TMO on her clit just to make you feel bad
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Two shelves of mouldering orange spined penguin paperbacks which give my spare room an ineluctable scent of a second hand bookshop. Other than that, nothing. I am the Mistress of the purge and anything not designated useful and or/attractive is slung in a binbag and slung down the Hospice Shop. Even my house is younger than I am.
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quote:Originally posted by Samuelnorton: One for Kovacs: The Adventures of Alice in Wonderland and through the Looking Glass. There's no date, but it's clearly pre-1950s. Illustrations by Philip Gough.
I'm afraid you possess a fake! Lewis Carroll's books are Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There.
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I'm very envious of some of your collections.
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