posted
Sheesh. I didn't misconstrue your remarks, but I did post a facile reply. Pax.
As for the rest - the good-enough stuff:
That's black-and-white thinking. The assumption there is only Good and Bad. Frexample:
1. A hacky, damp & peeling wall isn't good enough for anyone who values their surroundings. A fixed, but imperfectly painted wall may well be good enough. It's easy to become obsessed by colour variations, but a happy person will choose a suitable shade & be happy with it .... that's good enough.
2. Essay's a bit rough - needs a rewrite (it's not good enough!). Might have to sacrifice a wank over the PS2, never mind, I can do that on Thursday.
3. Kovacian self-doubt. There is no way you're fat!
If I thought you were trying to reject my ideas because they threaten your personal dependence on an "I'm not good enough" precept, I'd be as flattered as hell. I would also consider it worth persisting, because I hate to see perfectly good people tearing themselves down.
But I dunno.
quote:I don't think I'm good enough for your book, Cherry.
Either your defences are too strong for your own good, or you're tekkin the mickey.
Whichever; if in doubt, I'll always go for the positive viewpoint. You're good enough. Ask Modge; she should know!
G'night or g'day! Cx
[ 19 August 2003: Message edited by: Cherry ]
-------------------- I love God! He's so deliciously evil!
posted
Modge - thanks for the kind comment, I'm afraid I had forgotten about it. The night in question a masked assailant got me in a headlock and forced an unknown quantity of alcohol down my throat - consequently, large parts of the evening are a bit of a blur.
I *do* remember our conversation about the countryside, tho'.
quote:Originally posted by Cherry: The impulse to pay a compliment is innocent & well-meant, yes. My -er, proposal is as follows: "You've lost weight!" is thought to be, in itself, a compliment. That indicates that weight loss is desirable (and was, at least by implication, necessary in the individual case). Also that weight loss is a laudable achievement in itself. I query the automatic assumption that weight loss is all that bloody clever, and - even more so - that thinness is a highly desirable target.
It's an assumption, certainly - but the sentiment behind "you've lost weight" is not "well done for conforming to our fucked-up norms of thinness". It comes from the fact that when - in our society - most people lose weight it's as a result of a conscious decision to do something about a state of affairs they aren't particularly happy with.
The comment is made in admiration for someone having the determination and self-discipline to achieve their goal - or make progress towards it - in a culture where most work is sedentary and a lot of the food is jam-packed with sugar, fat, salt etc etc... powerful factors mitigating against a person eating and living healthily.
I don't buy your scenario of individuals being shoved around helplessly by societal pressures - people do have the capacity to make choices for themselves. Similarly, I don't think the issue of body image can be explained entirely in terms of the operation of - and resentment felt against - a form of social tyranny when a lot of what's at stake here is old fashioned stuff like wounded vanity.
Astromariner
Going the right way for a smacked bottom
posted
I've left my email in several places on TMO, in the hope that I might get some interesting net-stalkers, wanting me to send them my smalls, and such: no-one seemed that interested, sadly.
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quote:Originally posted by Astromariner: I've left my email in several places on TMO, in the hope that I might get some interesting net-stalkers, wanting me to send them my smalls, and such: no-one seemed that interested, sadly.
It's depressing isn't it? I've done the same, to no avail. Shall we swap emails and just send each other sinister messages? Then we could post on Handbag saying OMG! I've got An Internet Stalker! and judging by the who gets the most hysterical reactions we can guage how successful our individual campaigns have been.
I cannot check it at work however, so won't see it until later this afternoon. Info I'd like about the Tae-bo stuff is when, where, and how often is it on?
[ 19 August 2003: Message edited by: Boy Racer ]
-------------------- Some people stand in the darkness, afraid to step into the light...
quote: It's an assumption, certainly - but the sentiment behind "you've lost weight" is not "well done for conforming to our fucked-up norms of thinness". It comes from the fact that when - in our society - most people lose weight it's as a result of a conscious decision to do something about a state of affairs they aren't particularly happy with.
The comment is made in admiration for someone having the determination and self-discipline to achieve their goal - or make progress towards it - in a culture where most work is sedentary and a lot of the food is jam-packed with sugar, fat, salt etc etc... powerful factors mitigating against a person eating and living healthily.
I just spent about half an hour trying to write exactly what Ben said.
chocolatebuns
Would you be shocked if I put on something more comfortable ?
posted
The reason fat people diet is so that they can actually buy clothes.
At the moment I am restricted to shopping in either Evans or M&S. I don't actually give two shits how big or small I am (for the record I'm a 15st something, size 20), I'd just really, really like to be able to buy nice clothes.
posted
I have also given up on my attempts at acquiring an internet stalker. I think I might try to address this by being an internet stalker instead. Does anyone know which font most resembles spidery handwriting penned in green ink?
-------------------- They give you a pen as fat as a modest cock and you're expected to dab it on the page, as though you were mopping the dregs of an afternoon Tommy. Posts: 1847
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posted
Sidney, I always touch your name - you know, whenever it appears on a thread?
It just - I don't know... if I close my eyes and repeat the words you've just typed... it's almost as if I'm gently touching the tender area under your jaw, where the pulse beats close to surface of the skin - or perhaps brushing the very tips of my fingers against an earlobe as I push back a stray lock of hair.
quote:Originally posted by ben: In fact, certain people even made "reassuring" comments about how my big fat fucking beergut was "actually quite sexy".
Did I say this? I'm writing an article about Fat People at this very second and I need to know right now.
posted
I'll stalk you all the way to Nashville if you don't burn 'Losing My Edge' onto CD and send it to me pretty fucking soon, boy.
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quote:Originally posted by London: Did I say this?
Yes - you even made a little "framing" motion with your hands, as though measuring its diameter first from one side to the other, then from top to bottom.
quote:Originally posted by ben: Sidney, I always touch your name - you know, whenever it appears on a thread?
It just - I don't know... if I close my eyes and repeat the words you've just typed... it's almost as if I'm gently touching the tender area under your jaw, where the pulse beats close to surface of the skin - or perhaps brushing the very tips of my fingers against an earlobe as I push back a stray lock of hair.
Hope this helps.
That'll do.
-------------------- They give you a pen as fat as a modest cock and you're expected to dab it on the page, as though you were mopping the dregs of an afternoon Tommy.
quote:Originally posted by ben: The comment is made in admiration for someone having the determination and self-discipline to achieve their goal - or make progress towards it
Yes .... It's well-meant!
Sure, if you know they've committed to a diet and are keen to report on their progress.
If you're assuming that's the scenario, though, then - to me - it does have overtones of "well done for conforming to our fucked-up norms of thinness".
quote:I don't buy your scenario of individuals being shoved around helplessly by societal pressures - people do have the capacity to make choices for themselves. Similarly, I don't think the issue of body image can be explained entirely in terms of the operation of - and resentment felt against - a form of social tyranny when a lot of what's at stake here is old fashioned stuff like wounded vanity.
Well, evidently you don't buy into it!
That these pressures exist is proven, for me, by the facts that anorexia is on the increase; that it now affects young children; that diet clinics, liposuction and other invasive treatments are booming business, and even the fact that you can't buy nice clothes in a size 20! (Unless you buy them in America, I'm told, Choc.)
And - surely body size is only a matter of vanity if you have already bought into the whole thin-is-beautiful ideal?
Anyway. I don't want to become known as Ben's Fat Stalker, so I'd better leave it now!
Cheers, Cx
-------------------- I love God! He's so deliciously evil!
quote:Originally posted by ben: Yes - you even made a little "framing" motion with your hands, as though measuring its diameter first from one side to the other, then from top to bottom.
Rubby tummy?
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quote:Originally posted by Cherry: Well, evidently you don't buy into it!
That these pressures exist is proven, for me, by the facts that anorexia is on the increase; that it now affects young children; that diet clinics, liposuction and other invasive treatments are booming business, and even the fact that you can't buy nice clothes in a size 20! (Unless you buy them in America, I'm told, Choc.)
You're yoking together a bunch of diverse things that I'm not sure are really too closely related. The increase in anorexia - particularly among children - is closely related to changes in eating habits and attitudes to food, not solely an issue of "body image". All of this stuff is mixed up with how you were brought up and how you choose to live your life now - not just the propaganda that's being blasted into your head by the media.
Liposuction etc is more a question of people wanting to spend their money on stupid and inessential crap; making out that these people are "victims" of societal pressure devalues the concept of the victim, in my view.
I'm not saying that "pressures" of some description don't exist - I just can't accept that we're as much at their mercy as fallen leaves in a tornado.
quote:Originally posted by Cherry: Yes .... It's well-meant! Sure, if you know they've committed to a diet and are keen to report on their progress.
If you're assuming that's the scenario, though, then - to me - it does have overtones of "well done for conforming to our fucked-up norms of thinness".
These "overtones" are in your head!!!
Men - never pay a woman a compliment! They will only twist it round to prove that you're a child abuser.
quote:Originally posted by ben: You're yoking together a bunch of diverse things that I'm not sure are really too closely related. The increase in anorexia - particularly among children - is closely related to changes in eating habits and attitudes to food, not solely an issue of "body image". All of this stuff is mixed up with how you were brought up and how you choose to live your life now - not just the propaganda that's being blasted into your head by the media.
Ben, anorexia is a mental illness, not an eating habit or an attitude to food! People die of it. It is totally about body image. Anorexics look at their skinny ribs and see fat.
quote:Liposuction etc is more a question of people wanting to spend their money on stupid and inessential crap
You won't find me disagreeing with that! The reasons why they choose to spend thousands of pounds on dangerous, invasive surgery to make them thinner, though - instead of a nice diamond necklace, say, or a luxury holiday? Surely they must be under some kind of unwholesome influence?
quote:I'm not saying that "pressures" of some description don't exist - I just can't accept that we're as much at their mercy as fallen leaves in a tornado.
Much as I love your similie, I fear we pretty much are - unless, perhaps, we're lucky enough to have developed rock-solid powers of independent thought at an early age.
As I said, I fell prey to all that bollocks myself and so I have a vested interest in the topic. It's also quite likely that, as a man, you have felt less "pressured" to buy into the -er, beauty myth. I missed your tummy comment so I don't know what that was all about, but the fact you can find part of your own body repulsive suggests you're not completely immune
It saddens me that so many of us dislike ourselves in this way.
Love from your fat stalker! (Better watch that, or it'll be my tag ...) Cx
[edited for UBB and misquoting Ben]
[ 19 August 2003: Message edited by: Cherry ]
-------------------- I love God! He's so deliciously evil!
quote:Originally posted by discodamage: okay. so i lost like, 2 stone in weight last year. last year i was fat. this year i am not fat. yay me.
what i wanna know is when i get to stop being an ex-fat chick.
I don't know much about weight, imperial or metric, but can I just clear this up: is 2 stone the difference between "fat" and "not fat" for most people? I didn't think it was a huge amount. It would seem plausibly the difference between overweight and the right weight, but does it shift you into a different binary category like this?
edit to elaborate. Like, 9 stone is quite average and "slim" for women, isn't it? Is 11 stone "fat", then?
posted
i actually lost three, but ive put a stone back on. three stone is the diffence between fat and not-fat. size 18 to size a size 10. and three stone off 12...25 percent of my body weight. so yeah, proportionally, it was a lot.
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posted
Weight loss is a funny thing though, and depends on what you're how you're going about it. For instance you could spend 3 nights a week in the gym doing high impact weights and you'd only lose a few pounds but get thinner and more muscular.
Personally, I've never realy looked at it in terms of weight, rather body shape.
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