posted
Does anyone know just how widespread stuff like depression and anxiety is?
I know a couple of people on TMO have mentioned their own problems (kind of masked a bit with humour for forum consumption I guess) but now it seems that every day I hear about someone else seeing a doctor, getting pills, getting help with childcare etc.
Is there a big increase in cases these days, or am I just happening to meet the kind of age group that gets depression the most? It just seems to be out of control. I'm wondering if something is happening in society that's triggering it all off, like credit card debts or rising taxes or job insecurity or whatever. Or just living up North maybe. Or just reduced fun and freedom maybe.
I've not got either depression or anxiety myself, but seeing it all around me is kind of like living amongst zombies or something. Like everyone's lost their Willt Olive.
Anyone else experiencing either side of this situation? Have you noticed an increase or is everything pretty much the same as it's always been?
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posted
I have suffered from minor bouts of depression, but I've also witnessed the more serious damage it has caused to a number of people I'm close to.
It's difficult to tell if there is actually more depression around these days, or if I was just masked from it when I was younger. Perhaps, in recent years it has become less of a taboo to discuss it. Before, it might have been brushed under the rug, but today people feel like they can be open about it, as it's seen more as a legitimate illness than just "feeling a bit down".
Also, maybe as we have become more affluent, and we've refocused our worries from getting enough food or buying shoes for the children to what the boss thinks of us or whether our chakras are balanced. We've internalised worry.
Apparently, people thrive on a particular level of danger, and as our lives have got safer, we seek out dangerous activities to redress the balance - bungee jumping, driving fast, fighting, that kind of thing...
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posted
There's a lot more acceptance of it now, 10 years ago there was still a little bit of a stigma attached to depression or anxiety but thanks to reality TV, thanks to America, thanks to Frasier Crane, Dr Katz, What About Bob, Shine, Fight Club, High Anxiety we accept that mental illness is as much a part of today’s close knit society as avian flu.
Seriously though, I think a lot of people now get diagnosed with 'depression' by lazy doctors who just can't be bothered to explain to then that just because 'they've not got a great job and can't afford a nice holiday and a new 82cm Plasma screen and this is making them feel depressed and angry' this is not clinical depression but simply a side effect of the shop till you drop, wanna wanna, gotta gotta, havva havva world we live in.
I s'pose it's easier to be depressed today, there's more to be depressed about, more things, more stuff, newer and more expensive peer pressures to bow to, it's bound to bring you down - BUT...
If you lived on a hill in the middle of nowhere and farmed goats you really wouldn't care if you had anything other than goats, a roof over your head and food on the table.
Maybe we all just need to simplify ?
It's the proper nutters I feel sorry for though, and those who really need help and can't get an appointment to talk to anyone when the voice in their head starts telling them to hurt themselves and others all because some middle class woman is feeling down because she can't afford a new Gucci handbag and her best friends husband earns five grands a year more than hers.
So, what was the question again ? Is it on the increase ? YES.
The better question is why ?
-------------------- my own brother a god dam shit sucking vampire!!! you wait till mum finds out buddy!
posted
The agony of consciousness has been such a prevalent theme in literature for so long, it seems rash to suggest it's some kind of new global phenomenon brought about by the fact that - I dunno - people can't afford the latest iPod or whatever. I mean - the most famous play in the English language is about a guy in his mid-twenties pontificating on the anxieties inherent in the human condition. That it survived for 500 years suggests that for at least half a millenia people have been able to relate to his existential dilemmas.
So, no, I don't think there's any kind of depression epidemic at the moment, but I guess the fact that people are able to diagnose it and now are able to offer drugs to alleviate the symptoms makes it more noticeable. In giving it a name, and a status as a problem people are better able to recognise it. It carries more weight, maybe, to say "I'm suffering from depression" than to say "I've come over all Hedda Gabler".
posted
I think as we get older we lose the willingness to have fun and test our boundaries and therefore lose some of our sense of fun and, consequently, happiness.
I'm not entirely sure why it happens, but it seems to happen gradually, insidiously, so that we don't realise it's happened until several years later when it's so ingrained that, perhaps, we just don't see what's causing us the misery any more.
I'm happiest if I've got new stimuli, a new job perhaps, or a new college course, or if I've just achieved something difficult.
I wonder sometimes if it's got something to do with being hurt, like in relationships. Some people take those times as a lesson not to try anything new. Maybe that's it.
It's an awful shame to see some people so unhappy, but I think to a fairly large degree it's situational. In some cases chemical, ie., Low Level's wife, Kellifer, but much depression and anxiety can be dealt with to at least some degree.
In some cultures it's taboo even to talk about depression, though. Asian women are seen to be weak if they complain of depression, even if it is for a very valid reason, such as post natal depression, which frankly is criminal.
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not...
You reached over with your hand and knocked my Jap over
posted
I didn't realise Kellifer was married to Low Level.
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posted
My brother's currently going through a real bad patch and was near-suicidal a couple of weeks ago. He's finally got some counselling on the NHS (after a year's wait), which has been helpful apparently.
I think in his case it's a mix of male mid-20s angst, combined with a lack of confidence after some bad experiences at uni and an innate inability to deal with the bad shit that life will throw at you.
Any tips on how to deal with this would be gratefully recieved.
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posted
First of all I think there’s a difference between the general, eternal, existential angst inherent with sentient existence and clinical depression. While one can be seen as a general malaise that affects most people from time to time as a result of being run down, lonely, pissed off with the joys of modern living, or whatever, the other is an identified and increasingly treatable illness (or number of illnesses).
I think a general acceptance of the existence these illnesses, as well as the self-help/improvement culture within western society, has led to a greater awareness of them in ourselves or around us. A not necessarily accurate perception among some that more people are depressed than in the past is I think an inevitable by product of that increased awareness.
quote:Originally posted by not...: I didn't realise Kellifer was married to Low Level.
Sorry guys, had a brain fart. I meant that Low Level's wife recently had a bout of depression (does anyone know how they're both doing, by the way?) and Kellifer recently mentioned a rather severe, medicine-related depression.
[ 20.03.2006, 08:18: Message edited by: Satine ]
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Kellifer a beautiful, sensitive impenetrable mind.
posted
My natural alternative to depression pills have left me feeling a bit vague this afternoon, so sorry if this sounds like nonsense.
People have already raised some very interesting points and I think it is a general change in society that makes it seem a bigger problem than say, twenty years ago. We talk about our feelings more these days; we live more excessively and expect more from our lives. Maybe we just read about other peoples depression more and self-diagnose what has been a problem for a long time. Whether we read Shakespeare, Arthur Miller or Take a Break, we can be alerted to a deeper reality.
What I feel to be a big problem with depression, along with the fact that more of us suffer it; is that doctors have such difficulty diagnosing and treating the issue. There is a big difference between feeling low and like life sucks and having clinical depression. There is also a big difference when it comes to treatment, between chemical and situational depression.
From personal experience, my doctor offered no help. Her words, ‘well we can’t do anything for the depression, but try these pills, they might help the migraines.’ She was wrong on both counts, if she had read up on the situation for half an hour. It seemed to me that the medical profession have to admit that they don’t have the answers or may have made a mistake, if you suffer chemical depression. My doctor at least, would rather jump on some hint of situational depression and pass me off to a counsellor, than sit and listen to my symptoms and work out what was really the problem.
Maybe the doctors are depressed that they aren’t considered such authority figures now we live in a more health-fixated society.
Perhaps, depression is seen to be a growing problem, because many people with it aren’t actually treated correctly. Anti-depressants can worsen some depression and anxiety or leave you like a zombie without any emotions left to feel. Also being told chemical depression is situational, makes you feel like it’s your fault and leaves you even more depressed. Instead of help and support you get doubt and guilt, which even if the depression is situational, you shouldn’t be feeling. Who of us ask for bad things to happen in our lives?
Personally I think awareness has grown and living in a more selfish and nutritionally weak society has lead to us not being able to recover from life’s lows and being isolated from support that we all need in such situations.
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posted
How can depression not be chemical? Surely any emotion is technically chemical?
Also, anti depressants can work brilliantly. I've been put on three or for different kinds, SSRIs and tricyclics, as well as beta blockers to for the ticker, and they've pretty much sorted me out. I'll never forget the first day I woke up after having been spent months cruising down insanity, and being able to go outside and feel glad to be alive. Maybe I'm lucky with side effects.. I mean, was physically wrecked when I first took antidepressants; sweating, shaking, no appetite, no libido, sleep disturbance and racing heart, but compared to being depressed and paranoid, unable to communicate, living in terror, it's a walk in the fucking park to put up with that kind of thing.
Also, they kind of teach you how to live. They're like a kick in the arse when you've got your mind all set in loops, and sometimes just being able to point you in the right direction is enough.
I don't know. I think that, because I've been in and out of something that is probably some kind of depression, I've learned how to avoid it, how to spot warning signs, and what to do if it's getting worse. Also, I don't fear it or the drugs, I just accept that it may happen, and it honestly doesn't bring me 'down' as much as it used to. It's not about feeling 'down' initially, it's about feeling paranoid and frightened, head full of twisted thoughts and obsessions, crazy ideas about 'the meaning of life' and shit like that, and this leads to introversion and misery. As long as I keep reminding myself that it's not real, or at least, it's the product of a brain spazz rather than a permanent change, then I can pretty much function ok, albeit with more getting drunk and lying in bed. But I can feel it coming on with things like getting really fixated on wanting to buy pointless things, obsessively listening to the same piece of music, misunderstanding people, etc. Small things that add up.
Anyway. My original point is that anti-depressants seem to have a terrible rap, but really they can work frikkin wonders. They maybe be relatively blunt tools for an impossibly delicate job, but they can offer immense relief.
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: How can depression not be chemical? Surely any emotion is technically chemical?
Some people appear to be 'hotwired' for depression. Their brain chemistry seems to always be such that they feel depressed, no matter what the consequences.
When I say situational, I mean that normally you're a happy bunny, but when you lose your job, break up with your partner, and your dog gets eaten by next door's tiger all in one day, you might be inclined to be upset.
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posted
But that's the thing isn't it, the definition of depression. Some people use it lightly - "ooh, I've broken a nail, I'm so depressed" or to just mean sad, whereas real depression, as Dr B says, is often more characterised by anxiety, delusions, and physical symtoms.
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quote:Originally posted by dang65: Does anyone know just how widespread stuff like depression and anxiety is?
erm a conservative estimate; very...
quote: I know a couple of people on TMO have mentioned their own problems (kind of masked a bit with humour for forum consumption I guess) but now it seems that every day I hear about someone else seeing a doctor, getting pills, getting help with childcare etc.
quote:
I hear about it all day every day doing my job. I have also been a sufferer myself for the last 3 years. However, i'm on the way out of it hopefully and have been off my medication for longer than i have been on them in 2006.
quote: I've not got either depression or anxiety myself, but seeing it all around me is kind of like living amongst zombies or something. Like everyone's lost their Willt Olive.
thats a pretty fair description of what its like. Depression strips you of 95% of your personality and 100% of your motivation. It isolates you. In my own personal experience mine was as a result of just too much going on all at the same time.
Mix work stress with an undermining, nasty, alcoholic partner and bingo...
quote: it seems rash to suggest it's some kind of new global phenomenon brought about by the fact that - I dunno - people can't afford the latest iPod or whatever
I agree Thorn. probably the person i seem to find myself agreeing with a lot lately.
Depression has had such a stigma, I feel its something that is actually quite hard to admit to mainly due to peoples ignorance as to what it is and how it actually affects people, the effects arent just mental but physical. Its bit more than just feeling a bit down.
VP sorry to hear your brother is having a hard time. I found a lot of useful information online and just hearing how it could be affecting my decision making and general getting through the day really helped.
posted
It also strikes me that black men (especially younger ones?) can suffer from situational depression.
I'm half way through a book written by a prostitute who tells of a black man in his early 20's who phoned ahead to visit. He called to ask whether he should bother turning up as he didn't want to make the journey if she didn't see black people.
He was late, and when he turned up the prostitute thought he looked like a mugger - backward baseball cap, loose shorts, baseball shirt etc. He explained that he was late because he had spent ages looking around in one city for a toilet because nobody would direct him to one. She reckoned it was because people were perhaps unwilling to talk to him in case he were dangerous.
She began a conversation with him, asking him about his life. He was very pleased to be asked. Too pleased, it seemed. It later turned out that people often treated him with such indifference/hostility that it was unusual for him to have anybody take an interest in him. However, here she was being friendly and accomodating. This to him simply did not compute.
She also mentioned having spoken to a black female prostitute a few years before who openly said to her that black prostitutes pass the black male customers on to white prostitutes as they don't want the hassle!
Is there any surprise some black males are so negative?
I know a black American man in his early 20's who, deep down, wants to be happy but is often held back by his own percieved negative view of the world. And boy, it does hold him back a lot.
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posted
I still think a lot of people run to the doctor screaming depression when they feel down for a bit because of lifes general unfairness, and that's being depressed not depression.
I don't know if this will make much sense to anyone but I find that if I know why I'm feeling depressed then I know I'm not having an attack of depression. BUT when I want to hurt myself for no reason, when I won't leave the house because 'they're all talking about me', when all I want to do is lie in bed with the covers over my head and there's no reason on Earth for me to feel like it, then I know I'm having an attack..
Of course one can bleed into the other at times which is usually when I end up having to go back to the doctor.
-------------------- my own brother a god dam shit sucking vampire!!! you wait till mum finds out buddy!
quote:Originally posted by Satine: He was late, and when he turned up the prostitute thought he looked like a mugger - backward baseball cap, loose shorts, baseball shirt etc.
I think that the prostitute may have got confused between 'mugger' and 'Nelly'.
King of Bling: Nelly wants your mobile
[ 20.03.2006, 09:26: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: I still think a lot of people run to the doctor screaming depression when they feel down for a bit because of lifes general unfairness, and that's being depressed not depression.
I don't know if this will make much sense to anyone but I find that if I know why I'm feeling depressed then I know I'm not having an attack of depression. BUT when I want to hurt myself for no reason, when I won't leave the house because 'they're all talking about me', when all I want to do is lie in bed with the covers over my head and there's no reason on Earth for me to feel like it, then I know I'm having an attack..
Of course one can bleed into the other at times which is usually when I end up having to go back to the doctor.
Darryn I do agree that perhaps doctors are too keen to prescribe; but unfortunately with the current system in the state its in, medication is a kind of quick fix solution. I have been on referral for counselling since april 2004. I have yet to have my first session!
Talking therapies are a much preferable way of dealing with the problem but I am glad that I was given medication becuase if I hadnt things could have been very different.
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posted
I don't disagree Kira, I'm trying to address the original point of dang's as to why it seems there are more people 'claiming' to have depression and why everyone and their dog seems to think that feeling down equates having depression.
I can't see that the NHS are in any state to deal with it, I don't live in the UK anymore but from what I hear it's all waiting lists and no real help, and my heart goes out anyone who is suffering, it really does.
Here the situation is only a little better.
I've had talking therapy sessions and I found them to be little help at all. Sure it was nice to have someone to moan at, but there was nothing they could do for me, it's all a chemical imbalance and whatever I told them or talked to them about they just really reviewed my progress on the drugs to see if they were working. And when the drugs were working I didn’t need to talk to anyone as the things that seemed so bad whilst the imbalance was at its worst suddenly just seemed silly.
posted
Someone very close to me is going through an episode of proper depression right now. The hiding under the duvet, cutting themselves proper serious depression. This is something he's always suffered from but I don't know if he's ever sought help for it. I've been pushed away, had all contact severed because of this current bout of depression.
Does anyone have any tips on what I could do? Should I just leave him to hopefully make his way through this on his own, give him the space he says he needs, or should I be doing something, anything, to make sure he doesn't do anything worse than cut his arms?
Kellifer a beautiful, sensitive impenetrable mind.
posted
Dazzler, I'm taking 5HTPs, 50mg at bedtime or in the evening when it all starts to get too much for me. I think they are helping. Misc hasn't had as many teeth knocked out recently in any case.
Depression has taught me just how unique we all are. I guess that's why supporting one another seems so important to me now. As a society, we seem to think of groups rather than seeing each individual - illustrated by Satine's post - and I think it's made us more isolated and prejudiced of one another. Being depressed is enormously isolating, so much so that you aren't even comfortable with yourself, let alone others. Medication is undoubtedly an important step and corrective measure - be it pharaceutical or natural, as they can both go wrong - but a very overlooked aid for depression is just someone else giving a fuck about you.
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posted
I don't buy that though. I'm sure that people can be more pre-disposed to becoming depressed, but I'm more of the opinion that if you really went into yourself with a shrink (rather than a counsellor), and took your time, then you could find out what had happened at some point in your early life to cause it. Then correct it with some hardcore CBT. I think if you're depressed, or you can suffer from it, then spending time really examining your past seems like the last thing you'd want to do, not least because chances are this is what you do anyway when you're feeling bad. But you're re-affirming your own problems, re-writing history for yourself in order to try and form a more rounded character based upon what you believe yourself to be. If you've got something stuck in your subconscious, then it'll prevent you from fully forming your character, because it's like a link to early childhood that prevents growth. If you can resolve and cut the link, then you've got a chance.
For me though, the thought of doing that is terrifying. It's like... what if you discover something terrible that totally changes you, so that you have to shed a massive amount of your stunted personality in order to develop correctly. Even though I know that I could probably do this, and find whatever psychic thorn is in my side, I don't know if I could relinquish this mutant character for good. Even though it's weak and broken, it's my life's work.
But I don't know if you can 'get over' things from your past if they are buried that deep. I don't know the extent to which you can go back to system restore points for your personality.
[ 20.03.2006, 10:11: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
posted
I tried cutting myself when I was a teenager, but it just hurt, and really I just wasn't depressed enough to mean it. I had a succession of pretty girlfriends, a decent circle of really good mates, and I was - bar the occasional blip - succeeding academically. Secretly, I always suspected that the Manic Street Preachers were a bit of an embarrassment (time vindicated me on that one), and preferred either more upbeat stuff like Rancid and the Wildhearts, or just plain aggressive stuff like Sepultura and Fear Factory. Thinking about it, it's hard to see why I even tried self-harm in the first place except that it seemed glamourous and somehow profound, in a Sylvia Plath kind of way. By the time university came around I'd completely ditched the whole enterprise and it'd been reduced to being just a potential card to play when trying to get into the pants of some rock chick. Like "Oh, yeah - I know how it is. I used to cut myself too, yeah, people just don't understand do they?" while sliding another bottle of San Miguel into her hands and hungrily eyeballing her cleavage.
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quote:Originally posted by Uber Trick: Does anyone have any tips on what I could do?
It's a difficult balance to strike between giving someone the space they need and appearing to move out of their life altogether.
I'd suggest you make sure he knows you're available if he wants you - maybe ring up sometime and ask if you can come round for a cuppa, or ask him to go the cinema if he's up to going out. Don't be too 'nice' (unless that's how you are with him anyway), but try not to appear frustrated or annoyed with him doing/saying the same old things. I hate the phrase, but the best thing is to just be there for him.
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Kellifer a beautiful, sensitive impenetrable mind.
posted
That's the ones Darryn. On offer at Holland and Barrett until Thursday if anyone fancies being their own guinea pig. Of course I'll keep in touch. It seems to be working better than anything else so far anyway. I'd already noticed that the depression lifted very slightly when I ate lots of 85% cocoa chocolate, so it seemed possible that serotonin was my problem.
I didn't bother with St Johns' Wort, partly because I read that it can worsen focal migraines, that it was less use than a placebo in one study and I was watching Hex on Sky One when contemplating the option and that chick just kept going bonkers on it.
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not...
You reached over with your hand and knocked my Jap over
posted
Everytime I get a bit depressed I look at this picture I bet the guy who owns that never ever get's depressed.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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