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I personally think that it is. What do others think? Being older than most people on this forum I can remember the Iranian evolution of 1979 which brought about Islamifcation of the country. Not just Islam but the most extreme fundamentalist form.
Iran since 1979 has been a long time supporter of funadamentalist Islamic terrorist groups such as Hezbollah and currently supports Shia muslim insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan supplying them with weaponary smuggled over the border to them.
The current Iranian president has also made his views on the destruction of Israel clear to the world and refused to back down from those views.
Iran also has one of the worst human rights records in the world with routine torture and executions of people who violate harsh Sharia Law. The country is a state of fear.
Lastly the country has refused to back down over the past four years on its uranium enrichment programme.
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quote:Originally posted by Harlequin: The current Iranian president has also made his views on the destruction of Israel clear to the world and refused to back down from those views.
No Harlequin. That's what he said if you believe Rupert Murdoch who is trying to spin things to give Bush the opportunity to go to war. What he actually said was "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."
which translated means
Word by word translation:
Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
So, he is talking about the need for regime change and mentioning nothing about the destruction of Israel. (more information here
quote:Iran also has one of the worst human rights records in the world with routine torture and executions of people who violate harsh Sharia Law. The country is a state of fear.
I think there are many countries around the world with much worse human rights records. Check out some of the African countries. Check out Saudi Arabia where a woman has been sentenced to 200 lashes and 6 months imprisonment for being gang raped.
quote:Lastly the country has refused to back down over the past four years on its uranium enrichment programme.
They say they are doing it for energy. Of course this might not be true, but to be honest I would feel as safe with Iran having nukes as I do with GWB having nukes so I don't see what the issue is.
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Iran was dangerous in 1979 when the 'evolution' took place. It was also dangerous in 1991 when they took a very neutral position towards the Operation Desert Storm. It was just as dangerous in 2003 when they again adopted a policy of non-interference when Iraq was overrun, invaded and had its president executed by American-led stooges masquerading as bearers of freedom, democracy and all that brotherly love bullshit. It is just as dangerous now.
You get my drift.
Yes, Iran is not that pleasant. And yes, it may have a rather bellicose political leadership. But as far as human rights go, there are far worse places you can look at - I think SG5's post on Saudi Arabia - one of the West's biggest and money-pumped allies - pretty much sums it all up.
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But I hear Iran's got loads of open buildings just screaming to be squatted. You never see that written about in the mainstream media, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.
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Sure, but the downside is that the punishment for attempting to score with a hott young Iranian woman is having your genitals cut off.
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Ssh. Harley, just read what I wrote above. Ignore what Ralph said there, I'm sure there's no risk. In fact I'm sure there are dozens of Iranian virgins waiting to share your new squat with you. If only you'd ask them.
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Well I know that Saudi Arabi has a bad human rights record but that doesn't mean that Iran should be ignored. Maybe the USA has concentrated on Iran because of its links to international terrorism and to Shia insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not only that but Iran is stubbornly refusing to stop its nuclear programme.
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quote:Originally posted by Harlequin: Not only that but Iran is stubbornly refusing to stop its nuclear programme.
See, you've been caught by Murdoch's spin. Last I read they were laughingly refusing to give up their nuclear arms. Remember this is the country that captured one of our sailors and broke his will by....calling him Mr Bean. Those savages.
quote:Originally posted by Harlequin: Well I know that Saudi Arabi has a bad human rights record but that doesn't mean that Iran should be ignored. Maybe the USA has concentrated on Iran because of its links to international terrorism and to Shia insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not only that but Iran is stubbornly refusing to stop its nuclear programme.
But Iran isn't being ignored, isn't that the point. Rather, the bad side of Iran isn't being ignored, however, the positives (and there are some - it's not all fundimentalism) far outweigh the negatives when compared to the Saudi Regime, almost all of Africa, a few of the places in S. America, some neighbourhoods in North Italy at the moment (wouldn't want to be a Romany Gypsy in that part of the world right now). Funny that the US ignores SA, and skirts round Syria when the issues of International Terrorism come up - and fudges it's own history of funding and arming terrorist organisations...
As for Nuclear programmes? Well, is Israel nuclear? Why are the problems with countries that might be trying to find alternative fuels, moving away from oil dependence?
Anyway. Iran is a threat, in so much as the world is crumbling into a macho, alpha-male, circuit one, what ever you want to call, crap hole where people scream attack before talking...
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quote:Originally posted by Harlequin: The current Iranian president has also made his views on the destruction of Israel clear to the world and refused to back down from those views.
You've got to hand it to him so far as cutting the Gordian Knot is concerned. The one sure way to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would indeed be to obliterate them all from the map.
Or is he developing some kind of fiendish nuclear weapon that only kills Jews?
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Iran is not just dangerous because it is allegedly developing nuclear weapons, but because it supports international terrorism. It is fueling the conflict in Afghanistan and Iraq by arming Shia militias there. It has also supportted Islamic terrorist groups for decades. There can be no place in a modern civilised world for regimes which support terrorism.
I therefore think that the USA, Britain and other countries are right to get tough with Iran and demand sanctions on the country and even threaten to use military action if the Iranian regime refuses to change its ways. The ball is in Iran's court it can avoid confrontation if it changes its ways.
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quote:Originally posted by Harlequin: There can be no place in a modern civilised world for regimes which support terrorism.
I hate to sound like a relativist, but what's classified as 'terrorism' is entirely dependent on your perspective. Some acts are easily defined, like flying planes into buildings to kill civilians. But what about a government that covertly funds arms shipments to guerrilla fighters, is that not terrorism when it's done by the U.S. in Nicaragua but it is terrorism when it's done by Iran in Iraq?
Sure, Iran appears to act irrationally to the Western perspective, but think about their situation from their own perspective. They are framed by instability in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, two of which have U.S. forces on the ground and the third which is serving as a stage for U.S. operations in the other two. So, you're essentially surrounded by your sworn enemy- it's a cornered animal syndrome, isn't it? They're baring their fangs and trying to look frightening so they're not the next one on the U.S. "preemptive" strike target list.
And it's not like the U.S. will be held off by disclosure, inspections or any evidence in fact. We see now how well that worked for Iraq, who (a) said they weren't hiding anything, (b) were attacked anyway and (c) turned out not to be hiding anything after all. Iran is probably acutely aware they now stand at point (a) in the above continuum, much as North Korea did up until their first nuclear test, at which point they effectively assured themselves that (b) would not happen to them. Perhaps Iran is looking at its neighbors, looking at past actions of the U.S., and trying to gauge how they would best avoid being attacked.
Or, as many in government seem to believe, Iran is made up of a bunch of stupid crazy people who are intent on destroying themselves and everyone else because they hate freedom.
Despite not making any sense, that latter simplistic scenario is what seems to drive policy toward Iran.
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Iran's regime though is one of the most cruel and evil on earth though so can hardly be trusted. It would be a lot different if it were a democracy. I think that is why so many people are concerned about Iran getting nuclear weapons.
Though many people point to Israel having nukes Israel is democratic and has never threatened to use its nukes and has made it clear that it has them for detterent purposes only.
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quote:Originally posted by SilverGinger5: Why exactly are you so eager to go to war with Iran when you were so against the Iraq war?
This is even more relevant now considering that the US intelligence department found out that Iran had stopped trying to build a nuclear weapon in 2003.
quote:Originally posted by SilverGinger5: Why exactly are you so eager to go to war with Iran when you were so against the Iraq war?
There are loads of reasons why Iran today is different from Iraq in 2003. Iran is arming the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan so they are practically at war with the Iraqi and Afghan people. They are fighting a proxy war in those countries via the insurgents.
Iran has refused to stop its uranium enrichment programme. Enriched uranium can be used to make atomic bombs, plus nuclear power in itself is dangerous even if it just wants to do it for energy needs. They have aternatives like hydro electric dams and oil fueled power stations given Iran has lot of oil.
With Iraq there was no hard evidence that it actually had weapons of mass destruction. Iraq was also not arming insurgent groups or enriching uranium, it was also not an Islamic fundamentalist state. This article contains loads of reasons why Iran is such a grave threat: Click here.
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