I need a bit of advice. It's work related, so it's boring, but I'm stuck in a position that I'm struggling with.
As you may know or not care, I work on an IT helpdesk. I don't work on the phones anymore. We have a helpdesk team who are in rotation and there are two of us permanently off the phones. Guy A and Me.
Guy a does PC support, I do PC and Mac support
Now, each week we have someone rotate to come off the phones so that there are three staff off the phones and five on.
I don't see eye to eye with my boss. Frankly, I can't stand her, but I'm not going to go into the why's and wehrefores. Mostly though she doesn't really understand what I do, micro-manages everything to the point of inneficiency and has it in for me because I challenege her. Recently, I denied th eopportunity for a personal development review with her and asked to have it with her manager instead. She's been trying to drop me in it recently with each attempt back-firing and she's quite vindictive as a result.
So the problem: I was asked to handle only the PC work for the past fortnight to support the other staff while they performed the mac calls. She sent emails to the two staff on rotation asking them to tell her how helpful I've been in assisting them. With an unusual disclaimer 'this isn't a witch hunt but....' They've both said I've been helpful and the calls were handled OK. I might notice that some calls were still escalated to me when they couldn't be fixed.
This afternoon, my boss asked one of them how he thought the training had been good and when he said (tentatively) 'yeah, not bad I've learnt some things' she took advised him to take all the mac calls coming in.
Now, this position was given to me based on the strength I'm a qualified Mac support analyst and my concern is that she is trying to devalue the skills I have in this area by giving the other staff a token chance at doing the role and then pulling me off the position permanently to send me back to the phones.
This is the tricky bit. What steps should I take to protect myself here, because I can see a slow build up of this work and then finally announcing I can return to the phones because the other staff have been successfully 'trained' over the period of x amount of time.
Please note, the colleague in the same position as me who only does PC work doesn't even know what to do with Macs. I've sort of answered my question in that, they can't pull me off a desk when the other guy doesn't have the dual platform support, because it contradicts the reason why they could argue I'm not needed. To top it all off, I fix calls for this guy too.
So the question is, how do you protect yourself from this type of behaviour? I can see what's happening, but I feel very powerless to stop it.
[ 24.04.2009, 06:38: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Diary.
Keep a diary of everything you consider a no-no. Every comment, every phone-call, every time you cover someone's arse, every time your boss bites you or barks. Start one retrospectively now with as much detail as you can manage. Whenever you're confronted with a largeish (or bigger) no-no, email everyone concerned (however tenuously) and keep a folder of all these emails and all correspondence that ensues.
If what's happening now results in a carpeting or a grievance, or a sacking or whatever, you can produce your diary and your 'evidence' trail. It might be subjective, skewed and verging on the paranoid, but it will demonstrate to a senior boss or an arbitration panel that you've been worried by your boss's hectoring behaviour for long enough and heavy enough to record all this shit.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Also, do you have a contract with a job description? Work out how you fit the job, what your boss is trying to steal away from you, how you're uniquely fitted to your role... treat it like an interview or a job application. Write it all down, though. You might get called on to talk this stuff through and although it's all in your head it might not come out of your mouth. Notes help.
Keep your diary, your emails, your JD, your contract, your notes altogether. In a blue ring-binder. And use the blue ring-binder to shield your face whenever you're walking around the office.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Sorry, ignore the ringbinder stuff. But, do everything else.
Also, are there any sympathetic senior managers?
Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
Good idea about the diary, but also can you not approach Human Resourcing about your concerns? Depends where you work of course, but they can be useful (they can be bloody useless as well). They should have a grievance procedure, and even if by just telling them your concerns now, if it does all blow up in the future it will be recorded on yours and her file about this, so if she does try and come and bite you on the arse, HR will be pre-warned. They may even be able to take some level of action on it - at the end of the day, its a pain in the arse for them to hire someone when they already have a superstar in place - if they get wind you are maybe considering quitting, it's their job to do all they can to prevent it.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
If she's really getting on your tits, try the 'pitying tone'.
Make comments like, "Are you coping okay?", "Bit snowed under?", "Ooh, you're looking a bit tired. Stressed out?", using the 'pitying tone'.
It might not win you any ground but it'll drive her fucking bananas. And that's always good, right?
Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
And remember Mikee there is always....
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
I don't really have much to add to Black Mask's advice - it's all very sound. But I did just want to say I hope it works out.
Posted by McDirts (Member # 6680) on :
Black Masks advice is pretty sound. Alternatively you may find it useful to always take a personal video camera to work and constantly get all up in your manager's face with it, filming all the time, whilst goading her and accusing her of being the "guard dog of the quasi-fascist corporate state." At some point she's bound to slip up and strike you or withdraw her baton and hit you about the upper thighs with it. At the very least she may to forget to have her secure ID on her lanyard at all times and you've got the bitch on a technicality.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
If you can get a plan of your office layout and a couple of photos of the boss (profile and front, ideally), I could make you a Quake III level, populated with an endless supply of bosses that you could kill for your own theraputic amusement. Not terribly helpful on a practical level I admit, but surely extremely good for the soul...
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: If you can get a plan of your office layout and a couple of photos of the boss (profile and front, ideally), I could make you a Quake III level, populated with an endless supply of bosses that you could kill for your own theraputic amusement. Not terribly helpful on a practical level I admit, but surely extremely good for the soul...
You could make a fortune doing this.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Really sound advice Mask. What I've done is taken the job spec I've got that was supplied to be my our manager who's above us both. Should my suspsicions be correct I can kick up a stink, refer to the job spec and outline the parts of the spec I do, compare my training notes (I'm the only one who provides training) and point them to my documentation (I'm the only one who writes documentation) compare my call ratio (which I know is considerably higher) and then ask why I was the first choice to be taken off the role. In addition to this, I have calls passed back to me from our 2nd line department because they don't know how to do them. Again, I'll show the call references and ask her to explain why I was the obvious choice to be taken off first. trying to have the tools to protect myself should it occur in the first place.
In addition, the 2nd line mac analyst has popped a cork at finding out what's going on and is trying to highlight it and ask them to stop fucking about. I can totally see it from her point of view, even if it is a twisted one. It's about trying to make out that she's responsible for the training of the staff and improvement of their skillset, but the simple fact is that the work is there for them to do already, it just isn't picked up on. So by simply stripping me of workload, she can feel like she is legitimately rotating me back to the helpdesk because the skills I bring to the table are being handled by the other staff. The problem she has is that I have built a good rapport with my user base so I continue to get exposure from independant calls or emails that come through to me, mostly from production editors. So an attempt to stop the dam of work just goes to show how little of what I do is appreciated or even understood.
Wayne, HR are a bit of a joke in terms of looking out for our rights. We work for quite a laid back company in terms of the way things are handled and last time I had a grievence I was advised that it was down to management to make the decision. I felt as if I'd gone to them to clarify what my rights were and was told I didn't really have any. The job spec is vague and when I took the role it was labelled a 'challenge' rather than a promotion so it's easy for them to just say 'thanks for rising to the challenge!' and place me back in my old role. I'm very wary of the techniques but I didn't have a lot of power to wield when I was offered the change in work in the first place.
[ 24.04.2009, 08:45: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
I mean, I seem a little paranoid I guess, but you know when you get that feeling in your gut? That soundless creaking fear and it becomes so apparent what is going on. I've got that and I'm trying to batten down the hatches.
[ 24.04.2009, 09:08: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
dude - any updates?
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
I got sent back to the phones in exactly the sort of manner I predicted above.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
So, who's doing the Mac stuff?
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
How long have you been there now? Must be a couple of years now. Could be time to start looking for a new job.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Incidentally, I'm looking for a new job. My current organisation is going through a massive restructuring and there's choppy waters ahead. So, if anyone hears of anything... you know... think of old Masky, eh?
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
OK... but what do you do?
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Chap C. He's reading this now as I type it. Perfectly capable of doing a cross platform support role too, but we're aware our manager pits us against each other and lets Chap B get away with blue fucking murder. I've applied for a job a day since Thursday.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: OK... but what do you do?
I can turn my hand to just about anything, as long as it involves comic books.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
That's not the extent of my attempts by the way. I'll continue to apply for a job a day until I get a new one. Just in cae you thought I was going to make a really big effort for just a few days.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Chap C. He's reading this now as I type it. Perfectly capable of doing a cross platform support role too, but we're aware our manager pits us against each other and lets Chap B get away with blue fucking murder. I've applied for a job a day since Thursday.
Isn't there some way that you and Chap C can conspire to destroy Chap B? You know... kill him.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: I can turn my hand to just about anything, as long as it involves comic books.
We're actually looking for comic books projects at the moment. Why not submit a proposal for a Beginners Guide to Graphic Novels or something? I asked Kovacs if he wanted to write something and he told me to 'get fucked' (more diplomatic, maybe, but that was the upshot) but maybe a no-mark like yourself might be more our league.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask:
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Chap C. He's reading this now as I type it. Perfectly capable of doing a cross platform support role too, but we're aware our manager pits us against each other and lets Chap B get away with blue fucking murder. I've applied for a job a day since Thursday.
Isn't there some way that you and Chap C can conspire to destroy Chap B? You know... kill him.
Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where you hope he'd get caught just totally fucking shit up all the time, but it's weird. I've found that managment in big business follow the flow of management and not authority of knowledge or ability. So like, my manager will consistently fuck stuff up time and time again, but our departmental manager always takes her word as gospel. In this instance, I know she took the steps to take me off the desk because she told me her manager requested it and so she didn't have a choice but to go ahead. When I asked the manager in question he told me she said it would be the best way to do it. Total fuckwits the bunch of them.
[ 17.06.2009, 11:48: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis:
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: I can turn my hand to just about anything, as long as it involves comic books.
We're actually looking for comic books projects at the moment. Why not submit a proposal for a Beginners Guide to Graphic Novels or something? I asked Kovacs if he wanted to write something and he told me to 'get fucked' (more diplomatic, maybe, but that was the upshot) but maybe a no-mark like yourself might be more our league.
Okay. What would you need? A couple of sides of A4? (For the proposal, I mean. Not the whole book.)
Mind you, hasn't Paul Gravett got that comic-book-guide thing sewn up?
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask:
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis:
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: I can turn my hand to just about anything, as long as it involves comic books.
We're actually looking for comic books projects at the moment. Why not submit a proposal for a Beginners Guide to Graphic Novels or something? I asked Kovacs if he wanted to write something and he told me to 'get fucked' (more diplomatic, maybe, but that was the upshot) but maybe a no-mark like yourself might be more our league.
Okay. What would you need? A couple of sides of A4? (For the proposal, I mean. Not the whole book.)
Mind you, hasn't Paul Gravett got that comic-book-guide thing sewn up?
Actually... demonstrating my total and utter altruism, here... I know a great guy for your project. Andrew, the manager of Gosh! comics. He knows it all, he's passionate, and he wants to have a crack at writing.
Or... maybe I can get Andrew to ghost it?
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: Okay. What would you need? A couple of sides of A4? (For the proposal, I mean. Not the whole book.)
Mind you, hasn't Paul Gravett got that comic-book-guide thing sewn up?
There's a form here which should give you some idea. You can always point to Paul Gravett as an example of how well these things sell. It's not beneath us to jump on a bandwagon.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: Actually... demonstrating my total and utter altruism, here... I know a great guy for your project. Andrew, the manager of Gosh! comics. He knows it all, he's passionate, and he wants to have a crack at writing.
Or... maybe I can get Andrew to ghost it?
Hey - he would be great. If he wanted to do a BG for us that would be ace. Either of you are interested, I could send over a couple of other titles from the series, to give an idea of what's involved.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things where you hope he'd get caught just totally fucking shit up all the time, but it's weird. I've found that managment in big business follow the flow of management and not authority of knowledge or ability. So like, my manager will consistently fuck stuff up time and time again, but our departmental manager always takes her word as gospel.
However bleak it may be from your perspective, there is every chance that the departmental manager is aware there is a problem and may be working to change it. It may have the appearance that the dept manager takes her word for it, but he has to maintain that appearance. Any hint he gave you - as one of her staff - that he was questioning her ability or judgement could be seen as undermining her, which in turn could be seen as managing her out, and consequently turn into a settlement for the company. So it will always look from your position as though the management are covering each others backs. It has to. That may not be the case behind the scenes, however.
That said, it's clearly upsetting you, so yeah. The job hunt is a good idea too.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
I totally agree with what you're saying. I guess it's the kind of ...nature of the beats that you can have to work for people that are just totally inept at their jobs and yet you find yourself crushed in their wake. That all sounds very obvious to say out loud, but I hoped maybe the culture would change as I got older, but it never does.
'Upset' is not the right word. 'Distressed' puts it better.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
I'll sound him out about it.
Backing ungracefully out here... I'd only really want the gig if I got laid off at work. I'm up to my eyes otherwise. Plus we've got little Cthulhu on the way. Also... I don't know if I'd be comfortable in the constraints of a BG. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of chapters like... 'Why Kirby Fucking ROCKS!' 'Frank Miller Is Totally Over-rated.''Dave Sim, Grow The Fuck Up.''Superman Is Shit And Here Are 10 Reasons Why.''Alan Moore Is God!'
That sort of thing.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Actually, I should definitely write a guide to comic books.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
I completely agree with your position on Superman. The shittest superhero ever.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: I guess it's the kind of ...nature of the beats that you can have to work for people that are just totally inept at their jobs and yet you find yourself crushed in their wake. That all sounds very obvious to say out loud, but I hoped maybe the culture would change as I got older, but it never does.
Dude, I should get my Liz to post on here. Her war-stories are both hilarious and chilling. She works in a Community Mental Health Team. Her management sound crazier than the poor fucks the social workers have to shepherd about.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
You should both write a book that flips over. One side is Black Mask Vs Comics and the other, when you flip it around is The Mentalists Take Over The Asylum: a foray into the com-e-tragedy of the mental health system.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
I should point out that rather than telling me to get fucked, kovacs did in fact give me a bunch of other leads to follow up.
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
I should probably apologise for all the abuse I gave him on TMT then for that. He did seem a bit surprised with the message asking him "How fucking dare you just tell someone to get fucked who has been supportive of your work for years and years, you could at least have been polite about it"....
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
Please tell me that isn't true.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
Please tell me it is
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
I just tried to send a message apologising but it won't get delivered as he has put me on ignore now Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
Anyway. Mikee, eh? What's all that about? Sounds like he's in a right bind with his middle management.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
Jesus, I just googled my name on The Mock Turtle and found several pages - written in January - on a message board I barely know where people - some of whom I've never met - discuss what I wore on a date half a decade ago. Worse, other posters weighing in saying "maybe she would rather forget about it" as though the whole thing were some epic tragedy that had taken years of therapy to get over.
[ 19.06.2009, 06:34: Message edited by: Thorn Davis ]
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
You people sicken me. What ever happened to fidelity?
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
The only boards I frequent other than here tend to be gaming forums. Oh, and IMDB but that's hardly the same.
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
I'm on here and TMT and reddit and some Cherries board and some gaming boards. I think that's it.
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
Oh. Very occasionally on hotukdeals
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
and according to google, also ubuntu and excel forums.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
I'm so bored. I'll be on holiday for sixteen days starting in about three hours. My boss is off today, as is his boss, but my screens are still too overlooked for Gemcraft.
There must be some of the Internet left for me to read. Can someone kindly point me towards the good bit?
Misc ponders what would happen if he filled the office kettle with Perrier and switched it on...
[ 19.06.2009, 09:23: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
Did you read that Sims thing I linked to?
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
A fun task could be to shut down internet explorer and then try to imagine how excruciating it must have been back in the olden days, when people had to get past that 'Friday afternoon before holiday' feeling wihtout email or internet. I'd give it 20 minutes before every molecule in your body started to explode from sheer boredom/ anticipation.
Or, you could just post her and let us know about your holiday plans.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cherry In Hove: Did you read that Sims thing I linked to?
Yes, and it was very great. Made me want to recreate A Child Called It in Sims 3. Might need some mods. AFAIK you can't made a kid eat the contents of its sibling's nappy with the default install. Bit of an oversight by the developers there...
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Or, you could just post her and let us know about your holiday plans.
I don't know really. I had 24 days left to use, and found a gap between catalogue deadlines, so decided to use a couple of weeks up. I wanted to maintain my 100% record of not having to buy everyone cakes - I guess that was my main motivation.
Not sure what will happen though. Bit of decorating. Maybe a trip to Longleat to get up close and personal with some big cats, Kate Humble and a snake or two. Stay up late playing Gemcraft. Write some new tunes. Record some video clips of the bassonator in action. Might have a trip to Bath. Might have a bath, too. Probably should, really.
What else is there to do?
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: What else is there to do?
I found a good thing to do on my paternity leave was to redeem one of those free Lovefilm offers and spam it for all it's worth by watching two films in a row and catching the last post on the same day the films arrived.
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
I was looking forward to paterntiy as I get a massive three days paternity leave and still have 23 days of holiday left so was going to take the bulk of that and have a month off, but I've been informed that newborns don't sleep for 20 hours a day leaving you basically free to play video games and apparently some people don't even have time to shower for a couple of weeks after the baby is born!
This sounds unreasonable so I'm considering not taking any time off until a few months after the baby is born and just letting Kate sort out that unpleasant bit.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Good point. I'll watch all those films that I really ought to have watched by this stage in my life. And books - I'll read them, too.
I'm on the last chapter of stupid Jules stupid Verne's stupid book about all the different types of fish in the sea. There's some lame side story about a submarine-hermit, but it's pretty forgettable. Don't know why I bothered.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Actually, you could help me out by telling me which films I should watch. So far, I've only seen: Star Wars, Alien, 2001, Terminator, Amélie, The Godfather and Transporters 1-3.
Anything important I'm mising here?
ETA: Forgot Woody Allen. I've seen all his films.
[ 19.06.2009, 10:15: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
You should watch "Dude, Where's My Car?"
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Okay, yes, that looks pretty good.
Anything else to look out for?
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
Probably not. If you've seen that, there is little point in watching any other films as nothing will live up to the hilarity and fantastic acting of Ashton Kutcher.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cherry In Hove: Probably not. If you've seen that, there is little point in watching any other films as nothing will live up to the hilarity and fantastic acting of Ashton Kutcher.
You might be right there.
I read something about *Ashton Kutcher on McSweeney's recently:
quote:ASHTON KUTCHER FAN FICTION: "THE MIDDLE SCHOOL DANCE" BY MELISSA BELL, AGE 13.
"Whutz going on in there, Geeves?" Ashton asked.
"It appears to be a middle school dance, sir," responded his trusty showfer. "Would you care to attend?"
"Yes," the gorgeous skater-type replied. "I am a little lonely tonight, and I have a feeling I might meet someone special there."
Ashton went into the dance. Everyone made a big deal about him and asked for his autographs. They knew him mostly as Kelso and had not seen him in everything else he had done, especially not "The Butterfly Effect" fourteen times.
.... .... ....
"Would you care to be my date for my movie pre-mere in Hollywood that I am driving to now?"
Marisa nodded because they did not need words. The age difference would not matter as he was used to it on account of his ex.
[ 19.06.2009, 10:32: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cherry In Hove: I was looking forward to paterntiy as I get a massive three days paternity leave
Surely the UK statutory minimum is two weeks? Unpaid, maybe, but worth using some of it at least.
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
Yeah, I can get three days full pay then seven days statuatory, but as I have 4 1/2 weeks of holiday left, I thought I may as well use that and save getting paid stauatory.
Posted by Octavia (Member # 398) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cherry In Hove: I've been informed that newborns don't sleep for 20 hours a day leaving you basically free to play video games and apparently some people don't even have time to shower for a couple of weeks after the baby is born!
The first 24 hours they're immensely quiet, which is a cunning ruse to insinuate themselves into your good graces and fool you into thinking you've got a sweet, placid little thing. By the time the truth kicks in it's too late to put it back in until it reaches an age of rationality. Though to be strictly fair to ours she did spend the two weeks of Thorn's leave sleeping peacefully on his chest while he played games and watched films.
[ 19.06.2009, 11:29: Message edited by: Octavia ]
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: Actually... demonstrating my total and utter altruism, here... I know a great guy for your project. Andrew, the manager of Gosh! comics. He knows it all, he's passionate, and he wants to have a crack at writing.
On a different forum recently someone posted a comment about how amazing the Simpsons character "Comic Book Guy" is because, get this, they know someone exactly like that. It seems that the Simpsons creators had somehow recreated that real person as a cartoon character by pure coincidence.
I mentioned that this was indeed an amazing coincidence as you never recognise any of the other Simpsons characters at all in real life.
This was followed by a number of posts which disputed my statement and provided anecdotal evidence relating to a number of flesh and blood humans in whom people had been able to somehow discern similarities with Simpsons characters.
I again expressed my astonishment.
All I'm saying is, if you're going to write anything about comic books and characters then you might want to consider dumbing down like fuck.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Hey - he would be great. If he wanted to do a BG for us that would be ace. Either of you are interested, I could send over a couple of other titles from the series, to give an idea of what's involved.
Thorn. I've talked to Andrew and he'd like to know a little more. Can you email me at...
bozatblackmaskdotorgdotuk
and I can put you in touch with him direct.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
![[Frown]](frown.gif)