<sigh> you know how the Alice's Adventures book had a really good cover design by our own Darryn, and the in-house publishing bods managed to make it significantly worse by the time it was released?
Well, I am working for a different company now, and they are "bouncing about" ideas for the cover of The Blade Runner Experience.
Specifically: they want an image of a unicorn. Presumably like wat the unicorn is like in the film, but free from any copyright issues.
Here is the correspondence. You will be impressed by the professionalism of high-level publishing I'm sure.
quote: >>>We're bouncing around ideas for the cover image and want to use an >>> appropriate image of a unicorn - having some difficulty finding >>> exactly the right thing - wondered if you, or any of the >>>contributors, or anyone else you may know etc etc, may be able to >>> source a good image. >>>
quote:>>I do know some designers and can post on a discussion board asking >>for images. But can we guarantee them a credit if their image is >>used? I wouldn't want to ask professionals to make an effort and >>then not give them proper recognition.
quote:of course - if we use any image or artwork as supplied by a third >party there will be full acknowledgements - no problem
In fact I did give Darryn a big-up in Alice's Adventures so this isn't just hot air.
Does anyone fancy this mini-challenge? If you don't get the concept cause I explained it badly after 6 hours of fielding this kind of correspondence, please ask!
xoxoxox
Posted by OJ (Member # 752) on :
Er, Kovacs, what sort of company do you work for that want to publish a book (I'm presuming a book) but not pay for the image rights?
Not helpful I know, but I'm slightly incredulous. If you can be slightly incredulous.
eta: Okay, slightly more helpfully, creativecommons.org's image search function might help you to find images which have a creative commons license allowing commercial use. The bad news is you're mainly looking at photos, which isn't much use for unicorns and there's no quality filter for crap posted on flickr.
[ 23.02.2005, 15:26: Message edited by: OJ ]
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Can't you just stick an ice-cream cone on a horses head and do a little photo-trickery?
I'll erm, stop trying to be funny now and fuck off out your thread until the big boys come along.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
quote:Originally posted by OJ: Er, Kovacs, what sort of company do you work for that want to publish a book (I'm presuming a book) but not pay for the image rights?
Well, if someone takes a picture of a horse and photoshops it, isn't that free for you to use? And aren't some images free from copyright, perhaps because of their age or because they're intended to be used for that kind of purpose? The photograph of Alice Liddell, for instance, didn't cost anything and we just had to ask the estate of Carroll or whatever, as a courtesy.
But this isn't really my field (as may be obvious) -- it is the publisher's lookout.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
I think this one works. It draws attention to the reality gap that exists between our imagined futures and the mundane reality that actually unfolds for us. It also highlights the workaday reality of our application of technology. Furthermore, it identifies the fantastic inventions of our mythical past as trite, transparent, predictable constructions.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
<----- easily amused
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
I guess they want the unicorn to immediately remind customers and readers of the Blade Runner one -- so here's that brief sequence, for ref.
Doesn't Vogon Poetess love horses. VP perhaps you want a white horse of your acquaintance to star on a book cover.
Posted by jnhoj (Member # 286) on :
I bet sex with a unicorn is fantastic
Posted by Boy Racer (Member # 498) on :
Not to be too pedantic but isn't that actually the Legend Unicorn?
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
I don't know, actually, why the publisher wouldn't pay a small amount for permission to reproduce an image like the one above, from the film! on the cover. Because obviously it must look like that unicorn to make sense.
The more I think about it.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
The image you want is of the origami unicorn (or whatever you call it... matchigami?).
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Darryn does it again! Unfolding the sub-text of Blade Runner... quide lidderally.
Posted by My Name Is Joe (Member # 530) on :
I think Darryn's deconstructed origami unicorn pattern would be fantastic, but if you want something a little more obvious I have a mate who does origami and would probably be willing to make a 'half finished' origami unicorn or something.
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: Darryn does it again! Unfolding the sub-text of Blade Runner... quide lidderally.
That's the idea Bazza Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
I'm still keen on my ASCII unicorn, though...
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
it's a clever concept, but it looks like it should be the cover to "Applied Boolean logic & your ZX81". A bit 70s, and a bit dry? What do I know though lol.
How about an oil painting of Clarissa Flockhart being fucked by a horse? Eyecatching, modern, and relevant.
-*OR*-
Jonny5 from short circuit in front of a rainbow coloured fractal, with 3D titles created in WordArt? WOW!
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
Here are some pretty grey (white) horses that could be turned into unicorns:
(Looking for this picture I found that Milton had died! Now I am sad.)
(could do worse than a fiver on this each way in the Gold Cup)
But it does seem pretty lame not to use the real thing.
Failing that, Thorn and I could sell you a view of the Croydon cityscape at night from the balcony of our new penthouse flat.
[ 24.02.2005, 05:11: Message edited by: Vogon Poetess ]
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
I like the ASCII unicorn 2 - Bit mostly I with Benway on the Flockheart/Unicorn fuckfest.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by My Name Is Joe: I have a mate who does origami and would probably be willing to make a 'half finished' origami unicorn or something.
Wouldn't this look great if the part-finished unicorn were designed to appear as if it were folded from the book cover itself. A bit like an Escher painting perhaps.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles:
quote:Originally posted by My Name Is Joe: I have a mate who does origami and would probably be willing to make a 'half finished' origami unicorn or something.
Wouldn't this look great if the part-finished unicorn were designed to appear as if it were folded from the book cover itself. A bit like an Escher painting perhaps.
Or... sell the book as hundreds of loose pages folded into unicorns and presented in a special Blade Runner bin bag!
Posted by Astromariner (Member # 446) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: (Looking for this picture I found that Milton had died! Now I am sad.)
oh no! Now I am sad too. I remember when he was Next Milton: I had a big poster of him and John Whitaker at the Horse of the Year show on my wall. Desert Orchid better be still alive, or there will be trouble. Actually, it's unlikely, isn't it. I'm away to check.
[ 24.02.2005, 05:22: Message edited by: Astromariner ]
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
Kovacs, I'd prefer to see your book cover featuring attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion, and perhaps a few C-beams glittering in the dark near Tan Hauser gate. But I suppose this suggestion will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Edited: More pointless than usual.
[ 24.02.2005, 05:37: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by Vogon Poetess (Member # 164) on :
Astro, Desert Orchid still parades before the King George at Kempton each Boxing Day, so you can see him on telly once a year.
Perhaps it could be a clever marketing gimmick to misspell "Blade: runner" at least twice on the front cover.
Posted by Astromariner (Member # 446) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles:
If unicorns existed, would the french eat them?
mais bien sur! The french will eat anything. Famous frencher Francois Mitterand's last meal was a tiny songbird called an ortolan. Prior to eating, the ortolan had to be caught, kept in a dark box for several weeks and eventually drowned in cognac. You eat them whole, feathers, bones, innards and all, whilst wearing a handkerchief on your head.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
how about Steve Cram jogging along the edge of a straight razor? Clever!
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
Or a picture of the errand boy who worked on the 1998 movie starring Wesley Snipes and Stephen Dorff.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
You'd have to include Snipes and Dorff on the cover, and make it clear that the errand boy was in the relevant trade. Maybe, faux jogging, holding some sandwiches, with Snipes leaning against Dorff in that kooky way that people leaned against each other on the cover of 80s screwball comedies. Maybe Snipes could be rolling his eyes, and Dorff crossing his arms.
Posted by My Name Is Joe (Member # 530) on :
Some of my mates's folded stuff can be found here. Posted by Neurotic Cat (Member # 756) on :
Originally posted by Astro-lady
quote:...Francois Mitterand's last meal was a tiny songbird called an ortolan. Prior to eating, the ortolan had to be caught, kept in a dark box for several weeks and eventually drowned in cognac. You eat them whole, feathers, bones, innards and all, whilst wearing a handkerchief on your head.
I had heard this! Apparantly Jeremy Clarkson actually did this in one of his programs and forever more my mum (the RSPB member) has despised him ever since!
Sounds gross!
Posted by OJ (Member # 752) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs:
quote:Originally posted by OJ: Er, Kovacs, what sort of company do you work for that want to publish a book (I'm presuming a book) but not pay for the image rights?
Well, if someone takes a picture of a horse and photoshops it, isn't that free for you to use? And aren't some images free from copyright, perhaps because of their age or because they're intended to be used for that kind of purpose? The photograph of Alice Liddell, for instance, didn't cost anything and we just had to ask the estate of Carroll or whatever, as a courtesy.
But this isn't really my field (as may be obvious) -- it is the publisher's lookout.
Hi Kovacs. The incredulity was about the fact that the publishers wouldn't budget to purchase reproduction rights to an image. And indeed would be asking you to be looking around for one - though I don't know what your role is obviously.
Anyway, back to being vaguely helpful.
Even with older pictures, to which you may assume the Artist Works copyright may have expired (because the artist has been dead for 70 years), you may still be liable to pay to reproduce the image. So if you wanted to use a Breughel image owned by the National Gallery they would almost certainly charge you a reproduction fee. This is the distinction between copyright and reproduction rights. The Tate's policy on this clarifies it http://www.tate.org.uk/home/copyright.htm
If someone will take a picture of a horse, adapt it for you and then sign a contract giving you the right to use it free of charge, fair enough. But you can't assume. I would probably recommend "someone" to license the image under Creative Commons so they could decide which rights they wanted to reserve. For example, if an advertising agency wanted to pick up the image and use it on billboards, your helpful artist would be mightily pissed off to receive nothing.
Anyway, this is why I suggested looking for images which have been licensed using Creative Commons. This has been set up to allow creative re-use of artworks, with the artist (photographer, whatever) able to specify different permissions for use. e.g. that they will allow sampling, that they will allow adaptation of an image but only if the subsequent image also remains freely licensed, that they will allow only non-commercial or commercial use etc.
Amusingly, a google image search for "unicorn" brings this up on the first page:
I hope this is helpful.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
That folded stuff is pretty amazing. It's like 3d graphics, only in actual 3d. I have seen the future - it is paper. Like Darryn's dream.
Posted by My Name Is Joe (Member # 530) on :
The best bit about it is he'll sit in the pub and make roses and dragons out of gig flyers and crisp packets. You can almost hear the barmaids' underwear hit the floor when they discover his 'leavings'.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
Thanks OJ for the info and everyone else for the laffs. It does seem pretty odd to me still that they wouldn't pay £100 or whatever for a picture from the film. I will investigate your links further, OJ.
Yes I think they want a real unicorn, not an origami one, though a bonus origami pattern inside the cover to make your own Gaff unicorn would be fantastic.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I think they want a real unicorn
Good luck with that then, m9.
[ 24.02.2005, 07:06: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
Posted by My Name Is Joe (Member # 530) on :
Scoff if you like, but if dragons exist so might unicorns!
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
I should ask Waynster to take his camera along to the zoo and photgraph horses or anything with a horn (oo err missus) then I could create a digital unicorn..
Perhaps I have the right 'copyright free' images at home to composite something up.
let me look next week, tomorrow is my last day as a working man so I'll have plenty of time to mock something up after then..
[ 24.02.2005, 08:19: Message edited by: Darryn.R ]
Posted by scrawny (Member # 113) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway:
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I think they want a real unicorn
Good luck with that then, m9.
Genuine lol
Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: I should ask Waynster to take his camera along to the zoo and photgraph horses or anything with a horn (oo err missus) then I could create a digital unicorn..
Yeah find me a hoss and I'll shoot it(with my camera that is) - as long as I get a credit as well. Nice progression from CD covers to literature.
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
Yes, you will get a credit alright. Though of course I don't know if they will use anything I send them.
I'll mail the guy tonight with this idea and see what he says -- thanks anyway already Posted by OJ (Member # 752) on :
So are you writing/editing this book Kovacs?
Title/Publisher/ISBN
Posted by jnhoj (Member # 286) on :
OJ You wish you were as good as kovacs.
I mean, you're making out as if he needs to justify or somehow prove that he's writing this book...what? Maybe I read you wrong!
Edited for rudeness!
[ 24.02.2005, 18:36: Message edited by: jnhoj ]
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
Lol yes I have edited it. That's why they are now designing the cover, because the MS was submitted to them last Sept. Why would you want the ISBN? I don't pay any attention to things like that.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
Perhaps OJ is not familiar with Kovacs' other works of critically acclaimed geeky academia about essentially nothing...
Posted by jnhoj (Member # 286) on :
I thought that too ringo but I was feeling cruel and unjust and without smiles Looking to cause trouble out of boredom, thats terrible.
ProustReader: kewl
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
# Amazon.co.uk Sales Rank: 1,478,801 (Publishers and authors: improve your sales)
How could it have any kind of sales rank?
I remember my pride when Using the Force got into triple figures on Amazon, ie. it was in the top thousand. For about two minutes.
Posted by doc d (Member # 781) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: Maybe that's how people start conversations on literary chatrooms.
my mums book on pws is Amazon.co.uk Sales Rank: 175,392 on amazon. im so proud. i hope this great literary tradition is in my veins.
Posted by mart (Member # 32) on :
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: Maybe that's how people start conversations on literary chatrooms.
stop press ++ publisher goes mental at thought of paying Darryn ++ lol$ ++
quote:
>No, I do not suggest we go down the route of professional >photographer and web designer - that will cost hundreds!
>w're looking into lifting a shot of a unicorn from the film and then >manipulating that image as the resolution may not be great and we >need it to be bright and clear - white on white somehow, away from >the stereotypical dark neo-noir images etc.
YOU COULD HAVE SAID SO Posted by Abby (Member # 582) on :
How do you find the sales rank on amazon?
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
It's just...there? under the title and publisher.
Posted by Abby (Member # 582) on :
Heh. My dad is at 80,038 and 88,324 - we grow fat on the royalties!
Posted by kovacs (Member # 28) on :
xoxo update for those who are bovvered xoxo
they plan to do a screen grab from the DVD and photoshop it to avoid copyright permission... "if the image is sufficiently 'manipulated' then it is no longer 'from the film'"
zzzz so fucken tired today zzzz
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
But surely a screen grab (720 x 576 pixels) is going to look pretty horrible quality when blown up to print resolution? Even at only 300dpi, you'd have to stretch the screen grab to at least 400% of its original size to fill the cover of an average paperback.
I guess it depends how you manipulate it.
[ 25.02.2005, 05:51: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by OJ (Member # 752) on :
quote:Originally posted by jnhoj: OJ You wish you were as good as kovacs.
I mean, you're making out as if he needs to justify or somehow prove that he's writing this book...what? Maybe I read you wrong!
Edited for rudeness!
No, I'm just nosey.
And yes, it was an a/s/l reference.
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: But surely a screen grab (720 x 576 pixels) is going to look pretty horrible quality when blown up to print resolution? Even at only 300dpi, you'd have to stretch the screen grab to at least 400% of its original size to fill the cover of an average paperback.
I guess it depends how you manipulate it.
I can (or could) rip one out using DVD decoder software (If I had a copy of Bladerunner that is) and I'd get a decent digital grab from that too.
I believe WinDVD
Posted by OJ (Member # 752) on :
quote:Originally posted by mart:
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: Maybe that's how people start conversations on literary chatrooms.
That's very funny. I particularly like the Roget's Thesarus support group on the same site. Reminds me of the fact that I read the word "otiose" three times in a single edition of the Times last week and wondered whether it had been nominated word of the week at an editorial meeting.
Sorry, off topic.
quote:they plan to do a screen grab from the DVD and photoshop it to avoid copyright permission... "if the image is sufficiently 'manipulated' then it is no longer 'from the film'"
LOL at this. Doesn't this translate as "if the image is sufficiently manipulated then the copyright holders are less likely to notice that it's 'from the film'".?
Sorry, I'm not a lawyer, but what I do know about image reproduction suggests that this is what's commonly known as "sneaky cheatin'".
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: I can (or could) rip one out using DVD decoder software (If I had a copy of Bladerunner that is) and I'd get a decent digital grab from that too.
Sure - but the resolution of the actual DVD video is only 720 x 576, so you'll never be able to capture an image that's any bigger than that. However sharp your grabbed image, it's gonna look pixelated at four times the size.
The only workaround I can think of would be to blow up the screen grab in Photoshop and then apply an effect such as Color Halftone which would hide the pixelation and possibly even get you around the copyright issue.
Posted by Dr. Benway (Member # 20) on :
Not another 'My parents are out-selling your parents on Amazon' thread! We're only one step away from the notorious 'your parents' income vs. bandys income' thead, or even the dreaded 'which university did your uncle go to' thread. Do you remember? When Kurve got all offended because his Uncle went to Christ College, Cambridge, and Cyberchondriac said that his uncle reckoned that anybody who went to Christ College was a bender who also shagged children? And Stakker made up a tune about Kurve's uncle being a pedlo? Man, if Kurve hadn't been vindicated in the 'how old is your parents' second car' thread, then I reckon he would have gone ballistic.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
My nan would totally fuck you up in a fistfight Benway. You'd be all willmilling your arms while she crushed your chest with about 50 bodyblows. I'd get some Kevlar man cos I'm meeting her for lunch and we're round the corner, claaaart.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway:
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I think they want a real unicorn
Good luck with that then, m9.
^^^L@@K! It's Benway being a facetious c**t!
This comment gave me a big laugh back in 2005, because the idea of a 'real unicorn' was laughable and absurd.
BuT! What's this?!? A real unicorn? A good example of how a post by Benway about something that seems laughably stupid actually becomes laughably stupid, when that thing turns out to be a real thing, several years down the line. In the future.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
I bet if Lickapaw posted that story, the whole lot of you would be all over it like a bad rash.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
good luck with that then, m9
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
Yeah. Maybe this was a bad idea. Maybe all of this was a bad idea.
stuffs hands in pockets, rocks awkwardly on heels for a moment. Checks watch. Avoids eye contact with Kanye.
Best be off then.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: What's this?!? A real unicorn?
No. No, it's not. It's a deer with one horn. In what way is a deer with one horn a unicorn? It's just a horned animal with one fewer horn than it should have. A unicorn is a horse (a hornless animal) with a horn (remarkable). A unicorn is not a mutant deer it's a mythical horse.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Check out this Ye Olde-School version of a unicorn.
And also, check out the puppies on her! They're like fleshy knives.
[ 12.06.2008, 08:29: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
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Looking to cause trouble out of boredom, thats terrible.![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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