I was just watching the Obamas meeting your queen on the telly while I was waiting for the lift. Why this is newsworthy I cannot say. What's so special about the queen? What has she ever done? Anything??? As an American, I just don't get it...
Posted by Tilde (Member # 1215) on :
Me either, but from what I can work out it's a relatively minor cost to the country and it brings in lots of tourists. It's basically a tourist attraction.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
Yeah it brings in swarms of retarded Americans who come to gawp at queeny.
And let's not forget, if it wasn't for the Royal Family, we wouldn't have had Princess Di. Daily Mail headline writers would have had a much harder time over the past decade and a bit.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
you mean if I visited England I'd get to meet the queen? gosh.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: ...but why?
I was just watching the Obamas meeting your queen on the telly while I was waiting for the lift. Why this is newsworthy I cannot say. What's so special about the queen? What has she ever done? Anything??? As an American, I just don't get it...
I thought the Americans loved the Queen? I thought that that was the whole point? It's the thing that always comes up when people call for the monarchy to be abolished. It's always "yeah she's useless, but she's good for the tourists - those fucking American imbeciles trek over here to gawp at the kinds of history and tradition they never had". It has to be said, if anything can drag these ignorant, apathetic puddles of lard out of their homeland it must have some value. Presumably the Queen is pretty much the only non-American on the planet that Americans have heard of. You have to give her credit for that.
Posted by Keef (Member # 27) on :
The gifts exchanged did amuse me - Queeny gives a photo of herself and Phillip (she should have just given him a stamp) and she gets an ipod in return! I just imagined images like these:
but the silouette has a crown on.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
Obama's not got the hang of this state gift giving has he? Gordon Brown gave him a pen holder fashioned from the wood of one of the British fleet's anti-slaving fleet, and got a DVD box set in return.
Posted by Tilde (Member # 1215) on :
lol
Posted by Tilde (Member # 1215) on :
Anyway Ralph it's pointless discussing it because we can't do anything about it. The majority of people are apathetic about the whole thing and i guess it will eventually die out quietly of it's own accord over a fairly long period of time.
Posted by Tilde (Member # 1215) on :
Also it's a bit tactless to bring this up so soon after we've just lost another "People's Princess"
Posted by Tilde (Member # 1215) on :
Not quite sure about that apostrophe there.
Posted by mart (Member # 32) on :
Yeah, it requires such a constitutional upheaval to get rid of, that it will happen very very slowly and gradually, if at all, rather than through revolution.
And apparently there's an unspoken agreement not to discuss any constutional change at all while Liz is still alive, according to a Radio 4 programe yesterday about primogeniture and the disestablishment of the Church and all that.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: ...but why?
As an American, I just don't get it...
That's because as an American you're unable to comprehend anything that exists outside your tiny bubble such as culture. Well, I don't personally have any pride in the monarchy, but it's such a redundant question I wonder why you bothered asking in the first place. Why the land of the free? Why the hatred of communism? Why the right to bare arms? Why the saluting of a flag? Why anything really? Because there is a sense of nationalism and pride attached to serving someone from a long line of people who for most of our history ruled us. Decided what to do. Why would a fellow american leap in front of the president? Because he's a figurehead of lol, American democracy. Would you let a gaggle of strangers burn your American flag on your lawn and jump up and down on it? No? Then the English probably don't want anyone to kill our queen either. But mostly, mostly the reason is because you're a massive troll.
Posted by squeegy (Member # 136) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tilde: Also it's a bit tactless to bring this up so soon after we've just lost another "People's Princess"
Natasha Richardson?
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
i don't think anybody would really care if the royal family went away. I suppose a lot of that kind of thing is to do with tradition, and most cultures and societies tend to uphold some traditions don't they? They help to maintain a sense of continuation from the past into the present, and this probably legitimises many present day institutions and practises as a result. It's strange to see how you can't understand this, ralph. A basic understanding of society would enable somebody to see why a tradition like the monarchy might be upheld. Especially considering the pretty chequered history of the land in terms of ruling and power ownership.
There are also some political reasons, I believe. Technically the queen is there as a kind of safeguard, because she is supposedly apolitical. In the event of a breakdown of the political system, the idea is that there is still a power base, to prevent the land from descending into anarchy. I think I'm remembering that correctly. While her powers are ceremonial as long as everything is ticking over, there is potential there for the monarchy to step in. In some ways, I can understand the benefit of having a politically neutral head of state. The Lord system we have here of an unelected second chamber is also supposed to provide political neutrality within the governing process.
As mart pointed out, she's also the head of the state church - The Church of England. I don't know what that does these days. I sometimes went to Church of England schools. Does that still go on? Kind of weird to think that in schools they were making all the kids sing songs about Jesus even if, like me, they weren't Christian.
In practise however, the queen, the monarchy and the lords are all fairly ineffective, obviously undemocratic and really just there to maintain the ailing power systems of a previously landowning class that is increasingly irrelevant.
[ 02.04.2009, 08:50: Message edited by: Kanye West ]
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: That's because as an American you're unable to comprehend anything that exists outside your tiny bubble such as culture. Well, I don't personally have any pride in the monarchy, but it's such a redundant question I wonder why you bothered asking in the first place. Why the land of the free? Why the hatred of communism? Why the right to bare arms? Why the saluting of a flag? Why anything really? Because there is a sense of nationalism and pride attached to serving someone from a long line of people who for most of our history ruled us. Decided what to do. Why would a fellow american leap in front of the president? Because he's a figurehead of lol, American democracy. Would you let a gaggle of strangers burn your American flag on your lawn and jump up and down on it? No? Then the English probably don't want anyone to kill our queen either. But mostly, mostly the reason is because you're a massive troll.
To answer your many questions... Land of the free? Who says that? Sure, it's in some song, but we're slaves just like the rest of you.
I don't hate Communism.
I'm against the right to bare arms.
I haven't saluted the flag (or anything else for that matter) since I was in grade school. And because they made me.
Yes. I would let a gaggle of strangers burn an American flag on my lawn. Hell, I'd provide the matches. And possibly urinate on it to put it out when it was sufficiently burned.
Being a massive troll has nothing to do with it. Not having royals of our own here in the US of A, I was curious how those who do felt about them. Christ.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: I suppose a lot of that kind of thing is to do with tradition, and most cultures and societies tend to uphold some traditions don't they? They help to maintain a sense of continuation from the past into the present, and this probably legitimises many present day institutions and practises as a result. It's strange to see how you can't understand this, ralph.
I'm not one to blindly follow tradition for traditions sake. And the royals seem like a pointless tradition to me.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
but, as I've just tried to explain, the point of a tradition isn't in the practical benefits of whatever the tradition may be, but the psychological impact of how a tradition represents the relationship between past and present, which seems to be something that all human societies require. It also helps to add legitimacy to the aspects of society that help form individual and cultural identities.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: I don't hate Communism.
I'm against the right to bare arms.
I haven't saluted the flag (or anything else for that matter) since I was in grade school. And because they made me.
Yes. I would let a gaggle of strangers burn an American flag on my lawn. Hell, I'd provide the matches. And possibly urinate on it to put it out when it was sufficiently burned.
Have you told Brian about this?
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
ralph's Brian's Queen.
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
I wonder what else Obama put on her iPod aside from footage of her 2007 state visit to the U.S.
any ideas?
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
a .avi of a man fucking a dog.
Posted by mart (Member # 32) on :
There is some mileage to the old saying that, regarding a head of state, it is far, far better to have someone who feels obliged to do the job, than someone who really, desperately wants to do it.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
actually that wouldn't play would it. An .mp4 then. Of a man fucking a dog.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: Have you told Brian about this?
lol, no. Haven't seen much of Brian since we stopped work on the house...
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Well, I don't personally have any pride in the monarchy
So many people say this, and I'm guessing that's at least partly to do with our genetically programmed fear of taking pride in anything at all in this country. The BBC, the armed forces, the monarchy, the countryside, the empire, the language... you just sound like a Daily Mail reader if you show even a glimmer of appreciation for any of these things.
There is one thing which should be massively useful about the queen, and that is that she has been a first hand behind-the-scenes witness to pretty much everything that's happened to this country since the fucking Blitz.
I mean, look:
That's actually ancient history, but there she is, in the middle of it, and she's still in the middle of it now. For politicians to have direct access to that sort of experience should be of massive benefit to the country.
Ralph mentions seeing her meeting Obama, but that same woman in that same job has been meeting US Presidents since Truman and Eisenhower, ten Presidents and six decades ago. And thirteen Prime Ministers.
Whether it's a privileged position or not, it's pretty remarkable for one person to continue like that just because she happens to have been born to it. It's a shame she doesn't get to be interviewed or speak freely. This could be one of the most fascinating people alive, but she has to keep her trap shut.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
calm down dang, christ on a bike. Wake up to the twenty first century already.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: Being a massive troll has nothing to do with it. Not having royals of our own here in the US of A, I was curious how those who do felt about them. Christ.
It's like wanking through syrup.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: It's like wanking through syrup.
Extremely satisfying and highly underrated but leaves you with sticky hands?
[ 02.04.2009, 09:34: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by mart (Member # 32) on :
quote:Originally posted by dang65: just because she happens to have been born to it
Also worth remembering that when she was born she was third in line, behind her uncle and her dad, and no one would have thought she would ever end up as monarch.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: calm down dang, christ on a bike. Wake up to the twenty first century already.
Yeah, we ought to try something new really. Then the week after that we could try something else, and in a couple of months we could upgrade to the new version, and then sell it on eBay a fortnight later and get a brand new one on credit with nothing to pay till 2015.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by mart: Also worth remembering that when she was born she was third in line, behind her uncle and her dad, and no one would have thought she would ever end up as monarch.
Christ, mart, you can't accuse the Queen of murdering her way to the throne. Jesus God, what's gotten into you?
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
when christina and I visited mart in spain, he showed us a collection of scrapbooks he'd made by putting the queens head over the top of photos of people engaged in sexual acts. We were all pretty drunk, and I thought it was funny and arty at the time, but it really played on my mind for a few weeks afterwards.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
When she visited our school, we lost two days of our holiday.
I have mixed feelings about the Queen.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
do you mean, the whole village woke up and found that two days had passed, and many of the teenage girls were now mysteriously pregnant?
[ 02.04.2009, 10:00: Message edited by: Kanye West ]
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
Same thing happened here. When will this menace be stopped?
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: do you mean, the whole village woke up and found that two days had passed, and many of the teenage girls were now mysteriously pregnant?
Yes, Phillip was with her.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
while I agree we should seriously consider putting an end to this terrible scourge, we also have to remember that much of our advanced technological know-how has been donated to scientists by members of the queen's secretive "guardian council". Perhaps we have to accept that these 'incidents' will keep continue for as long as we benefit from the knowledge of the ancients.
[ 02.04.2009, 10:08: Message edited by: Kanye West ]
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
2006: At a granting ceremony, the secrets of cold fusion are transferred to a human elder.
[ 02.04.2009, 10:14: Message edited by: Kanye West ]
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
HRH relaxes at home. If you're wondering who the massive chap in the background is, then you obviously haven't read The BFG.
[ 02.04.2009, 10:13: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by dang65: I mean, look:
That's actually ancient history, but there she is, in the middle of it, and she's still in the middle of it now.
That's horse-shit, though, isn't it?
Apart from a few carefully staged photo ops she hasn't a fucking scooby about 'real life', has she? People (old people) still bang on about her cunting mum walking about a bombsite in the Blitz, as well. Like she was putting fucking fires out with her hat. What you don't see in that footage is that we had to recall the entire army from Europe to safeguard her on that bombsite, 37 members of the bomb-squad were blown to smithereens clearing the site and the entire RAF were circling overhead, keeping an eye on her. They're all *****.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask:
quote:Originally posted by dang65: That's actually ancient history, but there she is, in the middle of it, and she's still in the middle of it now.
That's horse-shit, though, isn't it?
Apart from a few carefully staged photo ops she hasn't a fucking scooby about 'real life', has she? People (old people) still bang on about her cunting mum walking about a bombsite in the Blitz, as well. Like she was putting fucking fires out with her hat.
[etc]
God, you're such a Bolshevik aren't you, BM.
The point I'm trying to make is that there is absolutely no shortage of people who know about 'real life'. You may even have dabbled in it yourself many years ago, I don't know.
The thing with the queen is that her experience is actually unique. All those statesmen and women she's met and seen come and go, all those weekly meetings with Prime Ministers, none of whom will have been in routine contact with real life themselves, but did make pretty big decisions from time to time.
The real turn off when it comes to the royal family is that all we get in the media is gossip about what dress they're wearing, what bird they're going out with and whether they got cross at a photographer. After years and years of that you really do start thinking they're nothing more than some kind of traditional version of Big Brother contestants.
I'm just proposing that there's a bit more to it than that, and that the monarchy does more good than harm. Which applies to the Church too, by-the-way.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by dang65: The point I'm trying to make is that there is absolutely no shortage of people who know about 'real life'. You may even have dabbled in it yourself many years ago, I don't know.
lol
quote:Originally posted by dang65: I'm just proposing that there's a bit more to it than that, and that the monarchy does more good than harm. Which applies to the Church too, by-the-way.
What good has the monarchy done exactly? I think this is what I'm really trying to get at with this thread.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
I don't think they do more harm than good, or vice versa. If they got paid off tomorrow no-one would miss a beat. They're completely irrelevant. They're no benefit, they're probably not even a hindrance. They're expensive, but if we weren't paying for them the money would just pffft away on some other old shit. I'm amazed anyone's proud of the Royals. It's like being proud of a castle or a department store or scones.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
I think I may have been too hasty in my judgement of you, Mask. Perhaps I should have given it five years instead of four. Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
yeah I don't see how you could say that the monarchy does good. Certainly not for its subjects anyway. It's not like it does anything. In many ways, you can think of it as how you might think of say, ralph on tmo. A meaningless and generally ignored intrusion that exists on a slightly different plane of reality to everybody else. But somehow, regardless of the animosity and apathy, it keeps existing, and people just go about their business and let it be, simply because the hassle of getting rid of it isn't even worth it. It's a joke, everybody knows it's a joke, it knows that it's a joke, but we all just carry on regardless for the sake of minimising hassle.
[ 02.04.2009, 11:42: Message edited by: Kanye West ]
Posted by mart (Member # 32) on :
In practical terms, the problem, or the issue, isn't really about whether they're any good or not, it's about what you replace them with.
Now, I know bugger all about politics, economics, history, the monarchy, constitutional law, revolution, or anything at all, but even I can see that replacing the monarchy with some kind of presidential system would be very, very complicated, and would probably completly destabilise society to such a degree that it would all be one mighty fuck-up, and it would threaten all kinds of things that seem to work one way or another.
I don't know.
[ 02.04.2009, 11:45: Message edited by: mart ]
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
I think that the British generally don't take themselves seriously enough to start getting razzed up over that kind of shizzle. I mean, the public face of politics in this country is a load of sleepy people half heartedly shouting at each other in a dusty hall.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: yeah I don't see how you could say that the monarchy does good. Certainly not for its subjects anyway. It's not like it does anything. In many ways, you can think of it as how you might think of say, ralph on tmo. A meaningless and generally ignored intrusion that exists on a slightly different plane of reality to everybody else. But somehow, regardless of the animosity and apathy, it keeps existing, and people just go about their business and let it be, simply because the hassle of getting rid of it isn't even worth it. It's a joke, everybody knows it's a joke, it knows that it's a joke, but we all just carry on regardless for the sake of minimising hassle.
finally. put in terms that even I can understand. I love you man.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
well, I say 'British', but I think that there are some people in Scotland who aren't 100% behind the idea of being ruled by the queen, and actually audibly complain about it. I read about that somewhere. Even amongst my placid fellow countrymen, the Welsh, I've heard there are those who speak up against their wonderful queen.
[ 02.04.2009, 12:01: Message edited by: Kanye West ]
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by mart: In practical terms, the problem, or the issue, isn't really about whether they're any good or not, it's about what you replace them with.
Now, I know bugger all about politics, economics, history, the monarchy, constitutional law, revolution, or anything at all, but even I can see that replacing the monarchy with some kind of presidential system would be very, very complicated, and would probably completly destabilise society to such a degree that it would all be one mighty fuck-up, and it would threaten all kinds of things that seem to work one way or another.
I don't know.
That must be how we ended up with a monarchy. After centuries of chaos, failure and disappointment we all tacitly agreed that this system was marginally less hassle and marginally more straightforward than constant skirmishing, treachery, alliances, moots and referenda. So, we dragged it up with some ermine and stolen tom and zhoozhed some theatricals in there... voila! Royalty.
Then, of course, there's was all that unpleasantness with Chas Mk.1...
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Also, there's the distinction between the body corporeal and the body politic. Who the Queen/King actually is isn't important. Couldn't we just have a... goldfish as the monarch? A new one every six months and Blue Peter viewers could name it.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
LOL
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
3 kinds of creepy
[ 02.04.2009, 18:15: Message edited by: Black Mask ]
Posted by Tilde (Member # 1215) on :
What is that? Looks like some sort of costume.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
Hathaway is v. weird looking.
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
Who's the oompa loompa?
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
I assume it's a designer but I don't know who.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
is that a real sun tan?
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
Spray-on, no doubt. Even George Hamilton never achieved that shade.
Posted by Octavia (Member # 398) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: it's like being proud of a castle or ... scones.
Actually I am quite proud of castles. And scones. I like the fact that we don't just pull stuff down because it's old and built on some prime real-estate - there's a sense of appreciation of history and knowing that our past is important. And scones rock with cream and jam. They have to be fruit scones, obv.
Can't say I'm particularly proud of the Royal Fam, though. Liz is alright but the rest of them are so colossally thick. For the first time I'm jealous of the Americans - they've got a smart man at the helm.
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