It was with some sense of trepidation that i watched Outnumbered for the first time last night, trying to work out just how closely it would wind up reflecting my actual life next year.
Thing is, I've got no real clue what to expect here. I've never looked after kids, never had a younger sibling. I realised the other day that the first time I hold a newborn baby, it'll probably be my own. So other than people laughing and saying 'Haha sleepless nights', I don't have any idea what a kid arriving in your life might actually be like. I know a few people on here havem and I wondered if they might like to share their experience of it. What am I in for, exactly, at the various stages?
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
I'm not going to kid you dude, it's a lot of work. Sleepless nights. Dirty diapers. And god, the crying! But it has its rewards of course. Holding your first child for the first time is priceless.
My wife is due 12/19 of this year. Any day now really. Oh god...the crying. Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
I don't really care for the first six months or so...not a lot of reward...an infant is just so needy...not a lot of personality. But once they start walking and talking and start becoming little actual humans it's pretty cool. My current youngest is in my favorite stage right now...he'll be three in February and he's just so full of wonder and joy...breaks my heart sometimes that eventually he'll grow to realize that life can be pretty shitty. But I digress...
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
So what was the question? Is there anything specific you'd like to know?
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: I'm not going to kid you dude, it's a lot of work. Sleepless nights. Dirty diapers. And god, the crying! But it has its rewards of course. Holding your first child for the first time is priceless.
Interesting. I guess I can hold my child for the first time and then just... get rid of it. Seems pointless keeping it around after I've had my fun.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
We were reminiscing just the other day about the soft spot newborn babies have on their heads before the skull meshes properly. That's pretty freaky, and often not mentioned.
Later on, put up lots of high shelves and put pretty much all of your belonging on them. Total destruction otherwise, especially when they're teething and start trying to eat everything.
Uh. Crying? Yeah, been covered. Switching the hoover on shuts them up sometimes, or going for a walk with them in a buggy. But nothing is guaranteed, except maybe the mother's milk direct from source, so make sure mother and baby are never separated for even a second.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by dang65: make sure mother and baby are never separated for even a second.
Best advice ever. We follow that rule in our household, Makes life so much easier for everyone. Except maybe the mother.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Interesting. I guess I can hold my child for the first time and then just... get rid of it. Seems pointless keeping it around after I've had my fun.
There's more fun to be had...but it takes a while. Just hang in there or make sure nobody's around when you decide to drop it off on someones doorstep in a basket.
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
We never really have that much crying in our house, at least not for extended periods of time, because we give in to the tiny dictator's little wishes (and I stay close to her most of the time).
Although I had lots of experiences w/toddlers and up, the first time I ever held a newborn was my own. For the first few days, I wouldn't pick her up, but would have froopy hand her to me. I soon got over the fear I would break her and made the other mothers gasp in horror when I slung her about like a sack of potatoes (the way she liked it).
We are past the six month mark w/our second and now have sleepless nights again after having a pretty good sleeping baby from 6 weeks to about four months.
Once they start talking, it is all smooth(er) sailing and very much worth it!
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by dang65: Uh. Crying? Yeah, been covered. Switching the hoover on shuts them up sometimes, or going for a walk with them in a buggy.
I'm told that I wouldn't shut up crying until my dad took me out for a drive in the car. There was obviously something about the hopeless drone of a Morris Ital's 1.3 litre engine that settled me right down. You wouldn't get away with that sort of needless environmental vandalism these days though. You'd have to record the sound of a crap engine on to an iPod, plug that into the baby's ears and kick its moses basket every few minutes between frags, to make it feel like it's in motion. Reckon you could cope with that no trouble. Also - get some decent closed-back headphones that will allow you to game without interruption.
[ 04.12.2008, 10:46: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by mart (Member # 32) on :
Did you know you can buy CDs of different types of white noise for babies? Washing machine, car, hoover, ocean, etc. Honestly.
My favourite is the Baby Colic Relief 3 Pack:
[ 04.12.2008, 10:49: Message edited by: mart ]
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Only once have I had to look after a baby. It was Kellifer's little brother at the age of six months (christ - he's just started secondary school this year). He slept with his eyes slightly open. It was fucking creepy as hell. I kept thinking he was about to die.
Not pleasant.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by mart: Colic Relief
Posted by mart (Member # 32) on :
Yeah it's for, er, Bred Woes Day.
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
The process of becoming a new parent is like being hit in the head repeatedly with a brick for the first few months. Then it gets better, partly because you'll be so numb from sleep deprivation you won't notice the bludgeoning so much.
The good news is that, with the premature aging brought on by lack of sleep, your senses will start to blunt somewhat, so the piercing cries become increasingly less of a problem.
Posted by Amy (Member # 11) on :
if my mom couldn't get me to sleep, she'd drive me around in the car. My grandfatherr used to rub my back to get me to fall asleep, which still works.
I helped raise my little brother, who is ten years younger. It was...interesting. Babies do cry quite a bit, but their cries sound different at various ages. Newborn cries are probably the sweetest sounding. What I've always thought was kind of...um...icky, is the still attached umbilical cord. All purply black and shriveled. Ew.
Babies have the best skin - Ever!
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
If you get bored, you can just take a trip to Nebraska at any time and leave the child there.
There's no upper age limit for that either! One guy left seven kids there between the ages of 1 and 17. It's great. It's like taking your unwanted christmas presents to Oxfam.
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
But. I don't have any proper advice as I don't have any kids. That I'm aware of.
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
quote:Originally posted by Amy: Babies have the best skin - Ever!
once they get over the baby acne.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Better stock up on Baby Clearasil then, Thorn.
[ 04.12.2008, 11:43: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Talking of kids, I keep getting text messages from a school saying "Your daughter Kayleigh Davidson was absent from registration this morning". Either they have the wrong number, or they know something I don't...
Unfortunately I don't know which school these messages are coming from, and there's no area code on the phone number they supplied, so I can't let them know they have the wrong number.
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
Erm, text them back?
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by H1ppychick: Erm, text them back?
It's some sort of automated number that doesn't accept incoming calls or texts from what I can tell.
I hope Kayleigh is okay!
[ 04.12.2008, 12:03: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Sounds like Kayleigh is in Nebraska.
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
I bet Kayleigh is a hott 17 year old and she's bunking off school to smoke fags and have sex with her 23 year old boyfriend who she thinks is romantic because he buys her cans of stella and then touches her up in hs car.
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
Beckett is 4 and that's ace, he's mental and claims to be drunk a lot while in shops, talks about his fictional girlfriend with whom he will build a house and occasionally swears like a docker..
Millie is 1 and into, onto and eating everything in sight so it's a constant game of "where's the baby" which usually means she's slipped a stairgate and is now somehow on the third floor near on open window holding a knife (even though 2 seconds ago she was playing in her playpen)
Summer is almost 13 - She's a grown up and spends her time on messenger or watching X Factor while looking at me like I'm an old fart and asking for expensive stuff she won't look after..
Kids are great.
[ 04.12.2008, 15:05: Message edited by: Darryn.R ]
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R:
Kids are great.
Most important statement so far.
Kids rock.
Our experience was pretty blissful, apart from the occasional cold, colic or dose of the shits. Tiny babies are a bit boring, but they soon come into their own. Once they're walking and talking they're massively entertaining.
There may actually be another Masketeer in the pipeline. To coin a phrase.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Also, I think I first gave this piece of fabulous wisdom to jonesy...
CHOICE IS THE ENEMY OF HARMONY
You don't need to worry about this for a while, but... in the future... if you want to get them out of the house in a timely fashion, don't open the drawer and ask them which t-shirt they want to wear. If you want to maintain your sanity at meal times, don't open the fridge and ask them what they'd like to eat. Give them the red t-shirt. Boil them an egg.
Posted by Physic (Member # 195) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: Beckett .. occasionally swears like a docker..
Lol, I can vouch for that, you haven't laughed until you've seen a small child happily swearing like a trooper
I think the first newborn I ever held was probably my youngest nephew about 10 years ago, terrifying at first because they seem so tiny in your big, clumsy hands, but once you get used to the idea it's fine.
Thorn apparently you need to be prepared to regularly be covered in vomit, wee and various different (and occasionally slightly alarming) colours of baby poo. Although I'm happy to say I only have this one on say-so for now..
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: Summer is almost 13 - She's a grown up and spends her time on messenger or watching X Factor while looking at me like I'm an old fart
Which brings a question to mind, looking forward perhaps a year or five: when will the first second generation forumite arrive? And who will it be? Dang's? Mask's? Darryn's?
Or is there a blanket unspoken ban on teemokids?
edit: this is not rooster.
[ 04.12.2008, 19:57: Message edited by: rooster ]
Posted by Benny the Ball (Member # 694) on :
Felix is currently 8 months (nearly nine months) and, after a slight period of not really sleeping much, he has returned to his pattern of sleeping through the night. He's at the stage of crawling, which is a bit like the scene in poltergeist where the mum turns her back for second, and the chairs are suddenly all stacked up in an elaborate set up - watch him crawl and he seems so clumsy and slow, take your eyes off him for a moment, and he is tugging at wires, pulling books off the shelf and making a break for freedom. He is fantastic and has been great fun for some time - each new little character development simply floors me, and I love spending time with him.
Having kids is fantastic, and, not just holding them for the first time, but every first time is great, as is every time you comfort them, or they hug you.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by rooster: when will the first second generation forumite arrive? And who will it be? Dang's? Mask's? Darryn's?
My number one son, even though he's good looking, fit, has a car, a job and has left home, has never had an official girlfriend. He's got girls who are friends, and he did go out with one girl on a date once, but no romantic attachments, unless he's keeping her extrememly well hidden. Maybe he's just spoiled for choice. Sad thing is, he's 18 and I don't even know if he's done it with a girl yet. He must have, mustn't he. I mean, even I had done it with a girl by that age.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
"Alright mum, guess what! I had sex for the first time today!"
"You did what? Just you wait until your father gets home!
"..."
------------------
"You'll never guess what our eldest said today? He only flippin said he'd had sex for the first time"
"crumbs, ok dear I'll have a word with him"
Dang slinks up the stairs, feeling very proud of his son. 'Nice one fella' he thinks to himself. 'The G genes have still got it' He pops his head round the door and his eldest son is lying on the bed, reading a copy of the NME and listening to some fashionable indie bands on his ipod
"I think you've got something to say, haven't you son?"
Dangs son pulls out the headphones, puts down the magazine and pulls a very sheepish look
"I had sex for the first time today dad"
Dang punches the air "Nice one son. I tell you what, let's go down the pub and I'll get the drinks in. Come on, get up and we'll go straight out"
"Not now dad, me arse hurts"
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
lol£
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
To be fair, just because he doesn't have any romantic commitments, doesn't mean he's not going balls-deep in hott teenage poon every night of the week. Not to mention doing any number of recreational drugs. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if, right this second, he's doing a line off a pert 17 year old breast...
Posted by Abby (Member # 582) on :
quote: My wife is due 12/19 of this year.
I knew ralph had a lot of kids, but crikey!
[ 05.12.2008, 05:33: Message edited by: Abby ]
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Physic: Thorn apparently you need to be prepared to regularly be covered in vomit, wee and various colours of poo.
No worries there - that's basically how I spent my twenties.
Posted by London (Member # 29) on :
Buy Octavia a sling - babies carried in slings cry less. (Go for a Moby wrap or a Mei Tei - forget the Baby Bjorn, it puts all the baby's weight on its crotch which is not so great for them). Co-sleeping babies also cry less - fuck all that Gina Ford nonsense, just take the kid into bed with you and let it sleep with you - you'll all be happy. And Octavia should try to breastfeed as that also keeps them quiet and often sends them to sleep.
(On the other hand, if the baby is on formula then apparently that's worse for the baby but far better for the mum, as she can hand you a bottle and the baby and then fuck off out. I wish I could do that. Jimmy is basically attached to me 24/7. Luckily they quite like kids here so I can take him to parties and stuff, but still.)
What else? It'll probably be quite hideous at first (and that's before the baby acne kicks in) but you'll think it's lovely. When it's about three months old it becomes less birdlike and more human and kind of magic. Oh, and Octavia will be quite fragile for the first three months after the birth so be really gentle with her - don't even be mean for a joke unless you like floods of crying, and don't let her watch the news or read about things like Baby P for a bit. And watch out for those stitches.
[ 05.12.2008, 08:57: Message edited by: London ]
Posted by Octavia (Member # 398) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: If you want to maintain your sanity at meal times, don't open the fridge and ask them what they'd like to eat. Give them the red t-shirt. Boil them an egg.
This is exactly my approach, TBH. As far as I'm concerned being the adult is about being the ones who make the decisions. You want to run your own life, grow up, get a job and leave home. I appreciate that this tactic may run out of steam when they're about 12, though.
Am completely up for the sling thing - have been investigating from Little Possums those magic things that take them from new-to-two.
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
We are actually all about the choices: offer two or three so they feel some control and offer one decent and one awful if you want them to do something.
example: Do you want to eat your peas or go to bed?
I'm ok w/either choice, but child usually chooses to do anything over going to bed.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by London: don't even be mean for a joke
I'd never dream of doing this, baby or otherwise.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by London: fuck all that Gina Ford nonsense
I received this book from a Secret Santa a few years ago on another forum. The sender thought it would get me riled up and it did. Fuck Gina Ford indeed.
eta: The person who received my Secret Santa gift got a variety of maple products from New England. I got the shaft. Which is why I don't do Secret Santa anymore.
[ 05.12.2008, 10:46: Message edited by: ralph ]
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: The person who received my Secret Santa gift got a variety of maple products from New England. I got the shaft. Which is why I don't do Secret Santa anymore.
I think your gift selections may have been part of the problem. Honestly. Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
I was talking syrup and candy and you know it.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
American comedy rocks, doesn't it?
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
Thanks for reminding us about sarcasm, maskie.
Though to be honest, there haven't been any mentions of excrement, absurdly stereotyped neighbors or laugh tracks, to say nothing about the lack of pithy laugh lines or quirky catch phrases. So I'm not sure about your assessment of american humor.
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
what a quiet day
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
Has everyone started their holidays early?
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
See you all tomorrow.
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
I start mine Friday !!!! Fuck yeah !
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
I start mine when my wife goes into labor. Fuck no!!!
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
lol
that's no holiday.. that's a space station... Posted by sabian (Member # 6) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: I'm not going to kid you dude, it's a lot of work. Sleepless nights. Dirty diapers. And god, the crying!
*emphatic nodding*
quote:Originally posted by ralph: Holding your first child for the first time is priceless.
I've done, seen, been through a lot of things in my life - good and bad. I would trade every single one of them in for that first 45 seconds or so after they are born. I know it's a bit dramatic, but if I were to die at that moment I would have had no regrets. There are no words or clichés that really impart the feeling so I'll stop.
quote:Originally posted by dang65: We were reminiscing just the other day about the soft spot newborn babies have on their heads before the skull meshes properly. That's pretty freaky, and often not mentioned.
That was WELL freaky! I was afraid to put her hat on for about 2 months in case I slipped and drove my fingers into her brain.
quote:Originally posted by dang65: Later on, put up lots of high shelves and put pretty much all of your belonging on them. Total destruction otherwise, especially when they're teething and start trying to eat everything.
I'm sure I've told the story before, but to recap. £600 digital camera, baby, BANG, no camera.
quote:Originally posted by dang65: Switching the hoover on shuts them up sometimes,
Scared the living shit out of mine... I mean, proper Freddy Kruger scared...
quote:Originally posted by dang65: or going for a walk with them in a buggy.
Ugg... A baby with colic is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. My little one, during a particularly bad night would not sleep and would not stop crying. So, to give the missus a break and to give the little on a chance to sleep I popped out at 1am for a little walk. Shepherds Bush to Marble Arch and back. In December. Pissing down with rain. Got back home at 6:00 with a baby who'd slept for 5 hours, a missus who tried to sleep for 5 hours, and so wet that I'm still trying to dry out.
Then, for the next 1 1/2 years, I'd take big one into to school and take little one for walks in the push chair and she'd always fall asleep by the time we got to the park by the house so I would sit on the bench whilst she slumbered - no matter the weather. Then we would go home and I never regretted a second of it.
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
quote:Originally posted by sabian: ...a missus who tried to sleep for 5 hours...(emphasis added)
this particular side-effect of parenthood seems to only afflict the mother - froop can happily drift off to sleep during any time tween night feedings, but I toss and turn and suffer from insomnia until finally drifting off to sleep five minutes before the baby wakes again!
[ 08.12.2008, 16:19: Message edited by: rooster ]
Posted by Octavia (Member # 398) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: There may actually be another Masketeer in the pipeline. To coin a phrase.
Congratulations, by the way.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Octavia:
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: There may actually be another Masketeer in the pipeline. To coin a phrase.
Congratulations, by the way.
Yes. Congratulations.
decides to have more kids to offset the potential of more evil entering the world Posted by Louche (Member # 450) on :
Who's putting money on Mask-Child over Thorn-Child, then? I vote Mask-Child.
Congratulations all.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Octavia:
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: There may actually be another Masketeer in the pipeline. To coin a phrase.
Congratulations, by the way.
Thanks. Early days yet.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
the woman who sits opposite me at work is pregnant. Disgusting.
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
Is it yours ?
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
no, I haven't had sex with her. I wouldn't want to. I don't like her, but not in a way that clouds my thoughts with sadistic sex scenes, but in a way that I'd rather have sex with a ford sierra.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: ...in a way that I'd rather have sex with a ford sierra.
Sapphire? XR4x4? I'm mean we'd all do a Cossie, wouldn't we? They were right slags though - you'd never find one that'd stay faithful. Bunch of fucking whores the lot of them.
Saw a lantern parade on Sunday. Organiser apparently forgot to plan it for the hours of darkness, thus making it even more pathetic than I'd anticipated.
Fallout 3 is getting a bit meatier in terms of diffculty - like a thick kid in top set maths, I'm starting to feel properly challenged. LBP's still great although it doesn't seem to get online with much success when I'm running torrents.
So blur are doing a reunion then?
Trying to source some decent insulation that I can stick in between my rafters. Fucking expensive that stuff.
Heh, two guys at work are having a conversation and they're both the type of person that talks over everyone else and refuses to stop. One is my boss. They're both yapping away and neither is listening to what the other's saying at fucking all. They're staring each other right in the eyes too. It's become a competition. Who's gonna back down first?
WorkSelf / HomeSelf aren't getting on too well at the moment. HomeSelf wants WorkSelf to be involved in an accident of some kind (possibly fatal). WorkSelf on the other hand, is compelled to keep doing dull shit for cash reward, and doesn't give a crap about HomeSelf. These guys need to have a word with themselves.
And happy birthday to the computer mouse - 40 years old today! But I still can't find a decent looking mousemat in the shops. Graphic designers need shit like that all over the desk. None of that minimalist crap with a bare glass desk that reflects your imac and makes it look just like the pics on the apple site. Microfibre cloth hidden in drawer to solve fingerprint issue. Sorry tiddler.
The death of the US automotive industry is my new favourite news topic. I've read more on that subject than anything else over the last fortnight. The Big Three! It's probably a bad thing for the world in some ways, but lolololololol anyway. Sorry to froopster/ralph/etc if they're upset about it all. Don't really want to piss those guys off, but
That girl through! The one who got kissed so hard her ear broke? Madness! Nobody wants to get kissed that hard. Nobody.
[ 09.12.2008, 10:13: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: The death of the US automotive industry is my new favourite news topic. I've read more on that subject than anything else over the last fortnight. The Big Three! It's probably a bad thing for the world in some ways, but lolololololol anyway. Sorry to froopster/ralph/etc if they're upset about it all. Don't really want to piss those guys off, but
The Big Three make some of the crappiest cars on the planet. I bought one once. Damn thing blew an oil seal and I seized the engine. At 22K miles. lol. So help me God if the government bails out their asses I'm joining a militia.
Posted by Octavia (Member # 398) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: That girl through! The one who got kissed so hard her ear broke? Madness! Nobody wants to get kissed that hard. Nobody.
Lol. "Couples should proceed with caution." Guy sounds like a rotten kisser - I mean, seriously, a vacuum so intense it sucked her inner ear out?
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: And happy birthday to the computer mouse - 40 years old today! But I still can't find a decent looking mousemat in the shops. Graphic designers need shit like that all over the desk. None of that minimalist crap with a bare glass desk that reflects your imac and makes it look just like the pics on the apple site. Microfibre cloth hidden in drawer to solve fingerprint issue. Sorry tiddler.
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: this.
Meh. They had those in dixons, but I don't want a scrapey-scrapey metal one. Something soft and slightly grippy would be best for precision work. And as Tori Amos said on her biggest hit single ever, s'gotta be big.
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: he Big Three make some of the crappiest cars on the planet. I bought one once. Damn thing blew an oil seal and I seized the engine. At 22K miles. lol. So help me God if the government bails out their asses I'm joining a militia.
quote:General Motors sold 9.37 million vehicles worldwide in 2007 and lost $38.7 billion. Toyota sold 9.37 million vehicles in 2007 and made $17.1 billion.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
I see. It's all the union's fault, apparently.
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
The Volt is forthcoming hybrid from Chevrolet. It's gonna revolutionize the world apparently!
Look at this:
Wow, that looks pretty futuristic, doesn't it? notice those windows that wrap into the bodywork, the slim, sexy LED headlights, etc? Wow - maybe it could be pretty groundbreaking... Er, well that was the concept car.
So they took it into a wind tunnel, found out how terribly poor the aerodynamics were, and turned it into this:
Notice those black plastic panels beneath the windows? The conventional lights? Yes this sort of thing always seems to happen to concept cars, in order to bring the costs down. Talking of which this car should be out in three years time at a cost of around $40,000.
Meanwhile in Japan, Toyota already has the very successful Prius hybrid on the market starting at $22,000, and Honda will launch the brand new Insight next spring for under $20,000.
Poor GM.
[ 10.12.2008, 05:37: Message edited by: MiscellaneousFiles ]
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
Going back to fatherhood/parenthood for a second, how do other parents handle things when children have colds and want time off school? Our kids have all had colds in the last couple of weeks. 6-year-old was fine, just toughed it out and went to school throughout. 8-year-old was hit harder and was really flaked out on Thursday last week. He didn't complain, but was obviously too out of it to go to school, so he had a day off and felt better.
12-year-old got his cold after the others and is making a huge drama out of the whole thing. He's been begging for headache pills, cough sweets, medicine and (worst of all) he's convinced he's entitled to time off school.
Trouble is, he's whining so much that it's really hard to be sympathetic, if you know what I mean. He doesn't seem that bad to me, just a bit of a cold. If you have the strength to whine then you're not that ill, it seems to me.
Do you give your kids days off school whenever they get a bit poorly? Do you give yourself time off work? One of my 12-year-old's grudges is that his brother got a day off and his school friends get days off if they have so much as a runny nose. I know everyone here thinks I'm a cruel dad, but I want my kids to realise that you can overcome colds by just fighting them back. A cold shouldn't cripple you, really. But my ex tells me I'm "different" in thinking this way. She seems convinced that I don't even get colds, but I just put up with them and carry on, that's all. A lot of people do that. But a lot of people don't. Which is correct?
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
You're different, dude. I take every opportunity to phone in myself and the Masketeers at the merest hint of a sniffle. Duvets on the sofas, DVDs, hot chocolate for the Maketeers and a little medicinal hot toddy for me.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
If he says he doesn't feel well then just let him have the time off dang. People generally have an idea of how well they feel and if he's exagerrating, then maybe he just wants a bit of home comfort, which is hardly a cardinal sin.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: You're different, dude. I take every opportunity to phone in myself and the Masketeers at the merest hint of a sniffle. Duvets on the sofas, DVDs, hot chocolate for the Maketeers and a little medicinal hot toddy for me.
Yeah, but you're an anarchist. That's how I'd expect an anarchist to behave.
Posted by Louche (Member # 450) on :
Dang is like the Stalin of parenthood. The only reason they've got bloody colds in the first place is because you don't wrap them up warm enough, you know.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
You're all starting to make me feel really bad now. I sent him off to school this morning. It's just that I don't see how lying around on the sofa for a day makes you get better any quicker than just getting on with it. I can understand how that would work with a broken leg or if you were throwing up all day and couldn't really function, but a cold is... just a cold. Isn't it? It's like being a bit tired, or having a bit of a headache. Or do you take days off for those things as well?
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
I'm sitting at my desk in my freezing office right now, wearing tramp gloves and enclosed headphones for warmth. I've got three layers on the top half (thermal + sweatshirt + jumper), two on the bottom (long thermals + jeans), two pairs of socks under my chelsea boots and I'm still really cold. My nose is running and I'm actually shivering.
Can I have the rest of the day off, dang?
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
Also my daughter Kayleigh is apparently still playing truant. I have to say I'm rather disappointed in her.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
I side with Dang on this one. I'd like to think I'd have the resolve and stoicism to insist a malingering child go to school and just get on with things. Mask is raising his kids to be weak.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Mask is raising his kids to chiiiiiiiiiill.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Make sure you wait at least 12 years first before you force your child out into harsh world, Thorn.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Call your newborn Weeeeeenston.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: If he says he doesn't feel well then just let him have the time off dang. People generally have an idea of how well they feel and if he's exagerrating, then maybe he just wants a bit of home comfort, which is hardly a cardinal sin.
That's very, erm, trusting. You don't think it's possible someone might be shooting for a day off school because generally being at home is nicer than being at school? That a kid might lie about how they feel because they can't be fucked to go in? I don't know if I'd consider it great parenting to think "Ah, if he's exaggerating it means he doesn't want to go in, and therefore he shouldn't be made to. Bless him. School is ever such an unpleasant place for a child after all."
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: You don't think it's possible someone might be shooting for a day off school because generally being at home is nicer than being at school? That a kid might lie about how they feel because they can't be fucked to go in?
I did this all the time, and got away with it despite both of my parents being teachers.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: I don't know if I'd consider it great parenting...
Wow, check this thread out! Eighty-odd posts and Thorn's an expert on parenting! Yay TMO!
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
I'm precisely as qualified to counter NWoD's point as he is to make it. We've both experienced parenting from one end of the relationship.
Posted by Louche (Member # 450) on :
I dreamed I was pregnant with twins last night. Does that qualify me to criticise Dang's parenting?
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
One of those random workplace surveys said that bosses would prefer that people who have colds etc. didn't come to work, as those who do are:
a) significantly less productive; and b) thereby also infecting their colleagues with the bug, perpetuating the cycle of sickness.
Why should kids going to schools be treated any differently, from a theoretical perspective (a parent's suspicions of malingering or unwillingness to stay at home as a monitor/carer aside)?
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Louche: I dreamed I was pregnant with twins last night. Does that qualify me to criticise Dang's parenting?
Yes.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
I wonder what ralph's poor children do when they fall ill?
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: I wonder what ralph's poor children do when they fall ill?
Stagger into the woods to forage for healing berries?
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by H1ppychick: One of those random workplace surveys said that bosses would prefer that people who have colds etc. didn't come to work, as those who do are:
a) significantly less productive; and b) thereby also infecting their colleagues with the bug, perpetuating the cycle of sickness.
That's a survey of bosses though. They are, by definition, thick as shit. I mean, how can someone coming in to work with a bit of a runny nose be significantly less productive than someone not coming in to work at all? (Answers on a postcard.)
And everyone knows that people catch colds simply by being cold, not by coming into contact with other people that have colds. D'uh.
Posted by Louche (Member # 450) on :
Didn't Ben get really irate about how one caught a cold when the subject of Dang's Draconian parenting first reared it's ugly head?
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
As I understood it, by the time you're in the snot and shiver stage of a cold you're not infectious and that the real danger zone was when you were symptomless and the virus was just hanging out in your body, unbothered by your immune system.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: I wonder what ralph's poor children do when they fall ill?
mask, fuck off and start your own thread, you boring asshole.
[ 10.12.2008, 07:07: Message edited by: ralph ]
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Louche: Didn't Ben get really irate about how one caught a cold when the subject of Dang's Draconian parenting first reared it's ugly head?
quote:Originally posted by Louche: Didn't Ben get really irate about how one caught a cold when the subject of Dang's Draconian parenting first reared it's ugly head?
There was a bit of banter a couple of years ago because some people really did think that you catch a cold by being outside in the cold, rather than from being in a stuffy room with someone else who already has a cold and then sneezes and sprays the virus everywhere.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
last night I dreamed I was staying a grand new york hotel, writing an article about Pete Doherty, who was also staying there. I was following him and his entourage around, taking pictures and trying to get interviews, only Pete kept throwing my cameras around and breaking my stuff, and his entourage kept stabbing me with syringes. The whole thing was awful, I felt very victimised. At one point I was held down and they stuck a needle in my scrotal sack and extracted a load of blood, just for kicks.
Anyway, the article was finally written, and it got turned into a book, about the weird relationship we'd had during the period. I was still at the hotel and a couple of producers turned up looking at making the book into a film. I was trying to convice them that they should adapt it so that it wasn't about Pete and me as such, but that the story was transposed to a different period in history, and that the lead character wasn't a celebrity. I wanted to try and get to the essence of Pete in a purer way, without relying on celebrity and a modern context to cushion the character. I suggested setting it it medieval turkey. No idea why.
Anyway then Louise turned up on a visit to new york and the first thing she asked was if Pete was still around, and I told her no, and she got really angry with me for not telling her this before she left the UK. Then she sat in the meeting and kept going on about wanting a Burger King, and I kept saying in a bit, in a bit, let me just get this sorted, but she kept interrupting, and this left me quite depressed.
You can probably read quite a lot into that dream.
[ 10.12.2008, 07:16: Message edited by: Kanye West ]
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
People get too uptight about going to work, going to school, what will the boss think, mustn't get in trouble, what if it goes on my permanent record... Look at Thorn, he was in tears at his desk the other day.
Fuck all that shit. If you feel a bit rough, take a chill-pill.
Posted by jonesy999 (Member # 5) on :
Colds are so varied that it's a tricky one. I mean, they range from an irritating sniffle to puss bleeding from the eyeballs and the loss of limbs, don't they? I think you need some kind of test to rate how bad their cold really is. I reckon some kind of touchiness scale (let's call it the Jones Scale) would be a reliable yardstick. Start off by telling them the next series of Doctor who has been cancelled. If that makes them cry then you can pretty much be assured they're feeling quite poorly and sorry for themselves and shouldn't go to school. If they don't cry at that, work your way up the scale: tell them they were adopted, tell them their mother's dead, lock them in the cellar for a couple of hours. Still no tears, crank it up a bit: throw a furry toy roughly the size of the dog out of an upstairs window, tell them it's the family pet and then bring in a mass of mashed up, unrecognizable bones and gristle (any good family butcher should be able to help there, not too expensive either because they'll mostly be off cuts) and tell them that's what's left of Digby. If they haven't burst into tears by the time you get to the peak of the scale (I don't know, water boarding after 72 hours blindfolded sleep deprivation, standing in front of a humming air conditioning unit in a dripping shower wearing just their underwear - something like that) then their cold probably isn't too bad at all and you can send them along to school.
Because of all the problems my kids had with their lungs, when they were ventilated and shit in the months following the birth, they still have chronic lung disease which means their breathing isn't as strong as other kids. It should all be alright by the time they're two but it means that a cold in our house (last year at least) was treated like something from The Stand or an advance viewing from the first British television drama to be filmed entirely in Dogshitvision - Teh Survivalers: decompression suits, quarantine quarters, a bullet to the head for the good of humanity, that kind of thing.
The real bogeyman (any puns intended) of the 'cold' world is the RSV virus. The human respiratory syncytial virus. While its symptoms are like a really bad cold, and adults with RSV assume they have a really bad cold, I don't think it’s actually a cold virus. Anyhoo, if prem babies with dickey lungs get it they often have to go on oxygen and even back on a ventilator. So it was, like, proper scarlectrix last year in case Smalls got it just after he was released from the hospital pound. Last year they gave him a course of injections which would help if he caught RSV over a couple of month period but because they costs like 5 million quid a needle (it's made of gold, good crack and rocking horse droppings apparently) they wouldn't give it to him this year. Typically, he sailed through last winter without getting RSV and only catching one cold but this year he got RSV, spent three nights in hospital and generally put the wind up us. The good news was his lungs were well up to the job of dealing with it; they just took him in because he wasn't drinking any fluids. So, yeah.
And the point of all that backstory? Well, to give you an example of how the old Jones Scale works, Dang, Smalls burst into tears on "You know Doctor Who..." and he can't even understand English yet. It proved he was deifnitley quite poorly and couldn't be sent up the chimney that day. So, I think you can see, it definitely works.
[ 10.12.2008, 07:36: Message edited by: jonesy999 ]
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: People get too uptight about going to work, going to school, what will the boss think, mustn't get in trouble, what if it goes on my permanent record... Look at Thorn, he was in tears at his desk the other day.
Yeah, it got quite bad the other week. The girl who works opposite me is in tears at her desk quite often. She's not a girly-girl either - she seems quite hard. Someone else here went home because they had a panic attack. The guy who had my job before me just left, without another job to go to, because he couldn't take it any more and the previous production person had a nervous breakdown. You'd think the owners, at some point, would ask themselves if maybe they're doing something wrong.
[ 10.12.2008, 07:32: Message edited by: Thorn Davis ]
Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
I punched the monitor one or twice when I was working on your catalogues, too.
Posted by H1ppychick (Member # 529) on :
What's a "sonic reduction", by the way?
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: You'd think the owners, at some point, would ask themselves if maybe they're doing something wrong.
Take your shoes off, put your feet up on the desk, chuckle to yourself until you get someone's attention and then toss your head back and shout 'SUCKERS!', as if you're really amused.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by jonesy999: RSV
See? You don't want to take any chances. Stay home.
Posted by Octavia (Member # 398) on :
quote:Originally posted by dang65: I know everyone here thinks I'm a cruel dad...
I don't know - I was always made to go to school when I had a cold and I pretty much plan to pass the same draconian measures on to the HIveMinD parasite thing.
The only things that got us off school were a) actually throwing up, b) having spots of some kind or c) having a 'proper' temperature. Given that we didn't actually have a thermometer in the house and finding out if you had a temperature was mother's-hand-on-forehead job (ie NO you haven't got a temperature) I don't remember ever having a day off school for that one. And at the time I had no idea it was possible to make yourself throw up.
Also I still have vivid memories of the time when I went to the school nurse at lunchtime feeling appalling and she got my mother to come and pick me up. I got in a MASSIVE amount of trouble. Really wasn't worth it - I should have just hung on for the school bus.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
I'm just trying to get dang to cut his son slack because my dad use to send me to school when I was shitting blood and vomiting my balls inside out.
Posted by Louche (Member # 450) on :
quote:Originally posted by Octavia: Also I still have vivid memories of the time when I went to the school nurse at lunchtime feeling appalling and she got my mother to come and pick me up. I got in a MASSIVE amount of trouble. Really wasn't worth it - I should have just hung on for the school bus.
I went to the school nurse feeling appalling and my mother gave me a similar level of bollocking. Bet she felt awful when four hours later I was rushed into hospital for an appendectomy.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: I'm just trying to get dang to cut his son slack because my dad use to send me to school when I was shitting blood and vomiting my balls inside out.
I'm interested to know how that has affected you as a grown up. Do you take time off work for the slightest illness now because you never could when you were a child and now you can, or do you still drag yourself to work shitting blood and vomiting your balls up because that's what you've always done?
Posted by Octavia (Member # 398) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: I'm just trying to get dang to cut his son slack because my dad use to send me to school when I was shitting blood and vomiting my balls inside out.
Well if you will insist on smack for breakfast.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Octavia: The only things that got us off school were a) actually throwing up, b) having spots of some kind or c) having a 'proper' temperature.
This was pretty much my parents' policy. I did blag the temperature thing a couple of times, though they were probably just in a nice mood when they let me get away with it.
Apart from those symptoms, children do often get completely listless and drowsy when they're ill and they seem unable to fake that for more than a few minutes at a time. So if one of our kids has been lying on the sofa all evening like a poet on his deathbead then they'll probably get some Day Off Vouchers for the next day (may not be used in conjunction with any other offer).
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Louche: I went to the school nurse feeling appalling and my mother gave me a similar level of bollocking. Bet she felt awful when four hours later I was rushed into hospital for an appendectomy.
Ha - I used to wish something like that would happen, except it never did because I was faking it. So ridiculous: sulking and thinking 'Yeah, well you'll be sorry when I'm really ill' despite the fact they'd simply called me out on faking it.
Seems like I had the same experience as Octavia, Dang and NWoD, and usually I'll go into work if I'm feeling ill.
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
A cold is still contagious after symptoms appear (and usually is a few days before they appear also) - that's certainly one reason to keep an obviously sick kid home, even if it is just a small cold.
I usually wanted to go to school even when I was sick. I felt that if I were missing people would forget about me and when I returned I would be a friendless weirdo. Most* of you probably started from that point, so I can see how taking a day off wouldn't matter. Because my parents knew this about me, they would let me stay home whenever I asked, even if just for a "mental health day."
*many? some? just Thorn? sorry, trying on being mean, and it really isn't my style.
[ 10.12.2008, 09:36: Message edited by: rooster ]
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
Pfft. The one day I was off sick from school, all the other kids in the school held a candlelit vigil.
Posted by mart (Member # 32) on :
save thorn
Posted by Louche (Member # 450) on :
Free Thorn.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
quote:Originally posted by dang65: I'm interested to know how that has affected you as a grown up. Do you take time off work for the slightest illness now because you never could when you were a child and now you can, or do you still drag yourself to work shitting blood and vomiting your balls up because that's what you've always done?
It's a good question, but it really depends. The job I'm in now, I do come into work even if I feel rough. For two reasons. When I do feel ill, my boss genuinely believes me rather than react with suspicion. That shouldn't make a difference but in my experience you get tarred with a label that's easy to receive. Secondly, because there's a fuck of a lot of work on most of the time and I hate it when people take time off for nothing. Because they can't be bothered. When I worked through agencies, I took time off when I wanted it. This is because if I took time off it's because I'm either genuinely ill or wanted the time off and made the judgement call to lose out on getting paid for it. You could argue that because I was made to go when I was a kid at school it has instilled a decent work ethic into me, but I can say for sure there was actually just a boiling resentment that my dad could gauge how unwell I was, like a modern day soothsayer. I mean, it seems it's an unpopular opinion, but I just don't think your son is going to go off the rails because, shitfuck! he exagerated his illness to get some time off school. Who hasn't done that?
[ 11.12.2008, 05:21: Message edited by: New Way Of Decay ]
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Look fuck it, concentrate your efforts on the eldest. His balls are probaly like fricking watermelons, the poor soul.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
I've got the runs, today. But, I'm at work. TMO is obviously a good influence.
Posted by herbs (Member # 101) on :
I'm very 'stuff and nonsense' about taking sick days off work. If I'm not actually vomiting, have a temperature of less than 100, and am not confined to a hospital bed, I go to work.
My mum was the same - she had no truck with illness, and we went to school unless at death's door. No doubt partly because she worked, and couldn't just take days off willy nilly to look after us.
Just carrying on when you have a cold is part of life. Get your kids to school Dang! Battling through adversity, in tweed, is what made this country great.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
It's quite interesting that a high percentage of TMO regulars have a "fuck it, I'm going in anyway" attitude towards work. It seems not to jive. Maybe other people are like "Yeah, I take the day off sick with a sniffling cold, but also I don't wank away the day on message boards when I'm feeling OK."
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
Hmmm... My parents knocked their rags out when I was a nipper. They had two and three jobs a piece, most of the time. My old man got railroaded out of his first career, and then he had two fucking heart-attacks as a result of his last one. Maybe my attitude is a reaction to that? I've always worked, always been productive, always been quite loyal to my employers, but I've never put my job ahead of my real life, or even ahead of things like hangovers or going to the zoo or the seaside.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
last night I dreamed I went to some polar territory. It was a landmass that lay somewhere between Scandinavia and the north pole. It was coming up to winter, so the sun was only out for a few hours a day, and I was with a girl and we had gone on holiday there. Because we were near the top of the world, you could see all the satellites orbiting the earth very clearly, and also rockets flying around, and spaceships that looked a little but like the creatures from the Flash game 'flow'. It was all very nice.
Anyway, I went for a walk along a sand path, because I was going to to see the sea, but somehow I left my female companion behind me. For like two days I didn't see her, just kept walking as fast I could to see the sea. When I got there, I realised I should probably see how far behind she was, and started walking back. I caught up with her, and she was all like "yeah, thanks for fucking off, I got captured and spent the last two days being raped", and it turns out that she'd been abducted by a chain gang like in O Brother Where Art Though.
You could probably read quite a lot into that. I think that a lot of the dream was informed by the film Vexille, that I watched last night. It had the same atmosphere.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: last night I dreamed...
That sounds like a shit dream. You didn't get to see the sea and you didn't get any action from the girl. Your dream sucks.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
no I did see the sea, but when I got there I realised that I should probably not have chipped off without my companion. But yeah, no action. Later on I went to my home town, and it was a hot day, and we went to a bar where all the chicks were naked, but I woke up before I could make the most of that situation.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: I went to my home town, and it was a hot day, and we went to a bar where all the chicks were naked, but I woke up before I could make the most of that situation.
Man, your subconscious hates you.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
it's not like there wasn't action to be had. One girl clearly pointed out to me that there was jizz on a pool table, so maybe I'd just missed out. Then there was a bird, like a seagull, but it had no head, and it was waddling around. It came up to me and was like brushing against me, and it was disgusting.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
that's pretty much all I've got to say on the subject of parenthood.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
which is probably for the best what with you not being a parent and all
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
busted!
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
yeah! Anyone who doesn't have a kid, get off the thread. Incidentally, there's a thread about condescending assholes which only you're allowed to join, ralph.
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: Then there was a bird, like a seagull, but it had no head, and it was waddling around. It came up to me and was like brushing against me, and it was disgusting.
This is actually quite a clear-eyed view of what parenthood is really like.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
I reckon I'd be able to cruise through being a dad.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
I reckon you could as well
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: yeah! Anyone who doesn't have a kid, get off the thread. Incidentally, there's a thread about condescending assholes which only you're allowed to join, ralph.
lol. I assume you started the thread? Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Yeah. My Poster First was about people who drive like crazy ***** and then say 'when you pass your test you can comment' because normal rational people can't tell the difference between feeling relaxed in the car or being petrified. A lifetimes experience as a passenger doesn't count either. You need to be able to parallel park before you can assess whether you're shit scared or not. Also, passing your test allows you to take other peoples lives into your hands which a sense of arrogance and superiority.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
So let's see nwod....when Thorn said this on the first post of the thread
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: I know a few people on here havem and I wondered if they might like to share their experience of it.
it doesn't appear to me that he's looking for responses from people who don't have children. Although your guess is as good as mine as to what havem might mean.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Yeah, but his wife broke the rules on my wine thread so it's fair game.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
Surely in the days before they had kids, parents had an idea of what sort of parent they wanted be and what sort of values they wished to impart and how they might go about doing that? If so didn't that inform your parenting style to some degree? And therefore wouldn't it be fair to say that the opinions and ideas you formed before you were a parent had some value? Presumably none of you thought "You know what, I'd like to encourage my kid to be honest and kind" before the birth and then suddenly abandoned that as soon as they were born and started doing the complete opposite on the grounds that you "just didn't know what it was like" to be a parent?
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
My brother has got a son, but I wouldn't trust him to raise bread, let alone give some advice on parenting. He can barely look after himself.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Will you allow me to continue posting if I channel myself through a more responsible parent, ralph?
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
again...Thorn's original request:
share their experience of it
So sure....post away...provided you share your experience of being a parent. jesus.
Posted by Kanye West (Member # 837) on :
man, ralph is such a surly little bitch these days.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Ah, I see. I only looked after babies and toddlers for a living, so I guess I'll be quiet because none of them were mine.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: man, ralph is such a surly little bitch these days.
you would be too if you were sllep deproved and waiting for the birth of your fourth child. besides...he started it.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Who'd have thought contraception could actually protect you from ....acting like a prick.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
didn't work for your mum and dad...did it nwod?
Posted by Cherry In Hove (Member # 49) on :
That doesn't make any sense.
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
Thorn, when your kid reaches their teens it's going to really grate on you. They'll be petulent. Argumentative and irrational. They'll even try to skive off school. Mostly though, get use to the sort of retarded argument style 'I know you are but what am I?' and most annoyingly 'he started it' I'm trying to give you examples of this sort of behaviour, but there's only adults on this board.
Posted by McDirts (Member # 6680) on :
ah hahahahahahaha nice one Ralph, comedy gold yet again...
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
thanks. I'm here all week.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by ralph: again...Thorn's original request:
share their experience of it
So sure....post away...provided you share your experience of being a parent. jesus.
Oi - don't abuse my original post as though I'm the kind of person that likes to keep things strictly to the thread rules. I just thought that given the success of London's mum's thread where all the dead mum's were resurrected to give advice, people might enjoy a similar male-themed one. And now look at it.
Posted by ralph (Member # 773) on :
Sorry Thorn. I was originally just kidding around with Benway (who knows I was kidding and also knows how to take a joke) then along comes nwod like a chihuahua on crack, all foaming at the mouth and shit, getting all bent out of shape for reasons beyond my understanding.
Posted by Benny the Ball (Member # 694) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: It's quite interesting that a high percentage of TMO regulars have a "fuck it, I'm going in anyway" attitude towards work. It seems not to jive. Maybe other people are like "Yeah, I take the day off sick with a sniffling cold, but also I don't wank away the day on message boards when I'm feeling OK."
If I don't go in, I don't get paid - so I, like most others in my line, go in, spreading their germs, coughing everywhere...
A mixer I worked with years ago had a lung collapse while at work, he was rushed to the hospital, and was paid that day up until he left in the ambulance.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
I force myself to go into work when I'm unwell for two reasons
First, because I hate being ill and being stuck at home feeling unwell is the worst, so if I'm well enough to work then that'll at least distract me from how rough I'm feeling
Second, I like to think we're all entitled to a certain number of sick days every year, so if i don't use them up while I'm ill then I'm well within my rights to claim the odd sick day back when I'm well Posted by MiscellaneousFiles (Member # 60) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: Second, I like to think we're all entitled to a certain number of sick days every year...
But how many. Questions were asked when I took ten during my first year in the job.
Posted by McDirts (Member # 6680) on :
I think they allow for 6. I never take enough fake sick days.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
Just for the recod that's a joke and I don't actually take days off sick when I'm not ill.
I work for a University so I already get more holiday each year than I know what to do with..
Posted by Sidney (Member # 399) on :
Can't resist saying congratulations to Thorn and Mask, so congratulations!
Haven't read the thread all the way through but nodded furiously when reading London's post on page one. I would also recommend buying muslin squares - lots of them. They are great for putting over your shoulder when winding the baby in order to collect sicked up milk, you can use them as a liner on changing mats to soak up the water when you're washing the baby's bottom at nappy changing time, they are good for wiping/soaking up all manner of spills and deposits and you can just bung them in the washing machine time after time and they're still good to use.
Babies and children are ace. I have four now. My youngest ones are 19 months old and 9 weeks old. I'm beyond knackered but I wouldn't have it any other way. Littlest one has developed the hugest smile ever and toddler one was overcome with joy when we got the Christmas tree lights out tonight - he stood in wonderment, crying out "OH WOW!" Of course, the tree will spend more time on the floor than upright as a result of his keen interest in the lights but I don't care.
One other handy tip - say goodbye to any white furniture you may have and say hello to a world of leather (wipe clean) sofas.
Posted by Sidney (Member # 399) on :
Oh I forgot! Cannon powered poos - breastfed babies do lots of them. When toddler was small and still breast fed, he once did a poo that shot halfway across the room (a distance of five and a half feet, fact fans).
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sidney: he once did a poo that shot halfway across the room (a distance of five and a half feet, fact fans).
OH WOW! Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis:
quote:Originally posted by Sidney: he once did a poo that shot halfway across the room (a distance of five and a half feet, fact fans).
OH WOW!
Let's not forget projectile vomiting. That's really impressive too. I was at a friend's wedding reception many years ago when my eldest, who must've been about two-years-old I suppose, started spraying puke like he was in The Exorcist. It just went on and on and on, with people looking at me as if I was somehow operating a mechanical chundering puppet rather than holding a sick child. It's all about timing with children. They have a fantastic ability to pick the absolute optimum moment for maximum damage.
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
I have a feeling I'm going to get along brilliantly with this kid.
Posted by London (Member # 29) on :
I forgot to say the most important thing! Breastfed babies only shit like once every four days!!!! Who knew????? The pro-breastfeeding lobby are seriously missing a trick by not going on about that. One time he didn't shit for 10 whole days and I thought I'd broken him, but apparently it's just because the breastmilk is kind of tailor-made for their needs, and constantly changing depending on circumstances (e.g. more watery in hot weather to help quench baby's thirst, etc), so they absorb the whole thing and don't really need to shit out any waste that often. Of course, he's starting to eat proper food now a bit so soon I guess he'll do proper poos, but still. It was good while it lasted.
[ 18.12.2008, 16:56: Message edited by: London ]
Posted by ben (Member # 13) on :
Belated congratulations Thorn and Octavia! I don't know. I go awol for the better part of year and this is what you get up to.
At least one of the things you risk having a sprog or two is that it can shrivels your posting moxie to the size of an ocean-dipped todger in February. Either the inclination or the slack can disappear to the point where you no longer feel you're adding anything - particularly if your working days telescope into a blur of borderline deranged flapping. A year after Sam was born I switched to working five days over four, which was great in that it gave me the whole of Friday to spend with him and Deborah (and, later, Alex) but it did mean I had to be a hella lot more focused at work. Hence.
The first thing I'd recommend, then, is time off work. Take your two weeks paternity and have an additional week off as 'leave'. When D got back from hospital she needed as much rest as she could get so having me around was a big help - it was also good for first forays out of the house, into town, etc etc, which can seem incredibly daunting at first.
Pretty much all parenting/baby books are useless, apart from 'What to Expect When You're Expecting' and 'What to Expect in the First Year' which are just useful as encyclopaedic reference works that help explain symptoms of all kinds in mother and child. There are no books for men - apart, maybe, from Cormac McCarthy's The Road, which is just about the only book about fatherhood you need (re)read.
Honestly, I flicked through a book called something like 'The Joy of Fatherhood' and the boxed advice panel under the chapter 'Babysitters' pretty much came out and said, "By the way, don't fuck the babysitter."
It's a truism that all parents are different and all babies are different - some are a dream, some a fucking nightmare; some parents chilled to the point of neglect, others a neurotic mess who oughtn't to be allowed near adults, let alone babies. Part of the fun of becoming a parent is discovering which one you are and having to devise for yourself a whole new apparatus of self-delusion that allows you to justify to yourself (and the world) why your flaws add up to being a better parent than the next bozo.
Key thing is, I think, just to psych yourself to what will be a big change, with a big re-ordering of priorities. Baby can come first and you still be able to - say - write your book, it's just you have to fight harder and work harder to ensure you put aside the time to do that thing. Being realistic, probably best to write it off for the first six-12 months and just throw yourself into enjoying the babying - there's plenty of time to pick 'creativity' up after they're a year old and the chances are you'll feel refreshed and inspired in different ways.
Most of all, look after Octavia - however straightforward pregnancy and birth might be, they'll still be hard work and you have the power to make things a lot easier - even just at the level of retarded household chores. You can't breastfeed, but you can change nappies - and give baths... so make those your jobs. The more you throw yourself into it the sooner you'll start to 'feel' like 'a dad' rather than just some spectator.
Top tip: the baby excrement for the first week or so (meconium) is like something out of Lovecraft. Unsurprising, really - baby's basically been on the fucking Atkins Diet for nine months. Once his or her system gets filled out with milk the resulting effluent is like Angel Delight by comparison, so from that stage forward nappies ain't nuttin but a thang.
When is the baby due?
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by ben: (meconium) is like something out of Lovecraft. Unsurprising, really - baby's basically been on the fucking Atkins Diet for nine months.
Dude, it's even nastier than that. Your baby is shitting out the velvet that covered their puckered little hide. They slough off one skin, eat it and then shit it out in a black, tacky, oily rope. Lovecraft, eat your heart out.
Posted by Darryn.R (Member # 1) on :
And start planning for number 2 now, they entertain each other and form an unholy union against you.
Posted by London (Member # 29) on :
quote:Originally posted by ben: You can't breastfeed, but you can change nappies - and give baths... so make those your jobs.
Can you tell my boyfriend this, please?
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
quote:Originally posted by London: Can you tell my boyfriend this, please?
So, he does fuck all?
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
No he's been trying to breastfeed the baby
Posted by Black Mask (Member # 185) on :
BOOM-BOOM!
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by ben: Key thing is, I think, just to psych yourself to what will be a big change, with a big re-ordering of priorities. Baby can come first and you still be able to - say - write your book, it's just you have to fight harder and work harder to ensure you put aside the time to do that thing. Being realistic, probably best to write it off for the first six-12 months and just throw yourself into enjoying the babying - there's plenty of time to pick 'creativity' up after they're a year old and the chances are you'll feel refreshed and inspired in different ways.
Cheers for the advice. Despite what you say I figure I'll probably still have plenty time for writing, Xbox, painting and drinking as well as building in the necessary hours hungover and slouched in front of the dvd player. It can't have that much of an impact on day-to-day living - it's barely a foot long and can't even speak.
It's due on May 6th. So it'll be a Taurus, like Cherry in Hove.
Posted by sam (Member # 884) on :
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: It's due on May 6th. So it'll be a Taurus, like Cherry in Hove.
That is kind of sweet. My grandson is due on May 1st. I'll think of you around then as I hold him because you'll be holding yours for the first time about then, and it really is something else again. No-one ever tells you this, but you fall in love with babies.
Congratulations btw. Posted by Sidney (Member # 399) on :
May is an excellent time of year to have a baby. Two of mine are May babies. I was able to get and about quite early on for some nice walks because the weather wasn't too hot or too cold for the little one. Octavia might appreciate getting out of the house after a couple of weeks, even if it is only to go for a walk. I'd echo what ben said regarding paternity leave - definitely take the two weeks of paternity leave that you're entitled to and some additional annual leave if you can. ben is also right about helping out with stuff - what I've always appreciated has been little things like J bringing me snacks and drinks when I've been breastfeeding; it's thristy work and can take an age sometimes. Whatever you do, don't idle your paternity leave away doing things like spending hours in front of the computer........
Posted by Octavia (Member # 398) on :
To be honest I can't imagine not getting out of the house for two weeks! Unless I have to have a Caesarian.
Posted by dang65 (Member # 102) on :
quote:Originally posted by Octavia: To be honest I can't imagine not getting out of the house for two weeks! Unless I have to have a Caesarian.
God yeah, I know what you mean. I had the Chicken Caesarian in Pizza Hut once and was on the loo for a week.
Posted by sam (Member # 884) on :
quote:Originally posted by Octavia: To be honest I can't imagine not getting out of the house for two weeks! Unless I have to have a Caesarian.
I didn't have a C so I was out within a week. Just a short walk to the corner shop to stop myself going stir crazy. When it is your first it is so totally scary though, doing it alone. It has to be a very short trip! I have never driven but my mate tells me that the worst day was the first drive alone with the baby. Two weeks later I went with her and she was still shaking when she got in the car.
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
You aren't supposed to expose the baby to too many people in the first two weeks, and especially should stay away from indoor public places. Going somewhere outdoors should be fine, as long as there aren't smokers near the baby...
With our second, we went out to take a walk when she was four days old.
[ 05.01.2009, 00:26: Message edited by: rooster ]
Posted by New Way Of Decay (Member # 106) on :
What happens if you expose the baby to too many people? Does it pop, like a frag mine? Does its little baby head make pipping noises and kapow! It's bonce explodes and it breaks the fourth wall by looking at the camera, all sort of 'see now look at what you've done'?
But seriously, why not?
Posted by rooster (Member # 738) on :
Their little immune systems supposedly can't handle it and they might get sick, badly. I took my second daughter out to a restaurant in the first week of life though - my girls have been exclusively breastfed, so, especially in those early months, they were better equipped to fight off any nasty germs.
The smoke thing should be self-explanatory.
Posted by froopyscot (Member # 178) on :
quote:Originally posted by rooster: The smoke thing should be self-explanatory.
Makes me wonder. If a woman smokes while pregnant, would the secondhand smoke be soothing to the baby? You know, like one of those fake heartbeat machines they sell? Except with nicotine, that is.
Posted by Harlequin (Member # 454) on :
The recent film "The Age of Stupid" reminded me of this thread because what is the world going to be like when this kid has grown up. It could quite likely be a futuristic hell hole as depicted in that science fiction film if an environmental catastrophe happens.
Or else like it was depicted in films like Mad Max and Blade Runner in the 80s. In Mad Max civilisation breaks down and man reverts to living in warring tribes while in Bladerunner technoglogy goes mad and creates a horror world.
Posted by Ringo (Member # 47) on :
I don't want to live in a horror world
Posted by squeegy (Member # 136) on :
Spoiler alert!!!
Posted by Thorn Davis (Member # 65) on :
quote:Originally posted by Harlequin: The recent film "The Age of Stupid" reminded me of this thread because what is the world going to be like when this kid has grown up. It could quite likely be a futuristic hell hole as depicted in that science fiction film if an environmental catastrophe happens.
You know, I've given this quite a bit of thought recently, recalling something TMO dyslexia poster boy Jnhoj said about having kids in a world that was obviously "going to be horrible for them". It made me feel quite guilty, and after a couple of months of anxiety I brought it up with a few people. One of them mentioned that his mum described how she'd gotten incredibly angry with herself for falling pregnant in the late seventies, because she felt like she'd condemned her kid to live in a nuclear wasteland. In fact, everyone on here was conceived in world that looked like it was charging headlong into nuclear annihilation. Prior to that, people were bringing babies into a world where humanity had just gone through two of the bloodiest conflicts in its history, and the level of destruction appeared to be escalating. Before that, people were bringing babies into a world of rampaging financial crisis. Before that, it was a world where your kids risked being exploited as cheap labour in the gruesome environment of the industrial revolution. Before that, it was a fair chance they would be claimed by disease before they hit their teens. So it's never been the case that the future has looked rosy and safe and prosperous for all, but we all muddled through in the end.
Posted by McDirts (Member # 6680) on :
For my baby, in preperation, I've made a little leather romper suit complete with studs, zips and a holster for its raxor sharp boomerang and back holsters for it's little sawn off shotguns. It's going to apocalyptically cute.
Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
Great observation Thorn - certainly made me re-evaluate my viewpoint on the whole parenthood thing. And anyway, it might be one of these offspring that produce a solution for all the doom we are heading into - they could even be born the next messiah who saves humanity - who knows?
Posted by Waynster (Member # 56) on :
Although that's probably quite unlikley....
[ 18.03.2009, 07:29: Message edited by: Waynster ]
Posted by jnhoj (Member # 286) on :
I think the mantle of dyslexia poster boy actually goes to Phil Haw but yo! I'll take the accolades where I get em.
Posted by Octavia (Member # 398) on :
quote:Originally posted by rooster: Their little immune systems supposedly can't handle it and they might get sick, badly.
They used to advise the two-week thing, apparently, but don't anymore. Now they encourage you to get out asap.
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