quote:Originally posted by Physic: I would argue that anyone who derides Brothers In Arms as bloated and boring has little or no appreciation of the guitarists art, since to my mind it includes some of the finest guitar playing of any album.
Dude! If you like Dire Straits, You'd totally love *Hollister!
quote:Originally posted by omikin: q has never, ever been good.
100% fact. if you don't believe me, look at a copy with your eyes.
Wrong. When Q came out, and for quite a few years after, it was the only proper music mag which ignored fashion and acknowledged older music alongside new trendy stuff. It may have jumped the shark now, descending into Top 100 lists and nude pictures of Sheryl Crowe or whatever, but it was smart and entertaining and also witty.
They started a laid-back and freeform style of writing which has now become a cliche but was fucking excellent to read when the alternative was an NME or Sounds stuck so far up their own arses that you couldn't actually read them without getting covered in shit.
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quote:Originally posted by omikin: the fact that it was your dad's copy in the first place says it all.
The fact that you see this as a problem says a great deal to me.
please tell me what it does say to you, boy.
as a teenager, did you not want a generation gap between yourself and your parents?
wouldn't that make you instinctively averse to anything they liked or thought was cool?
i'm not trying to be contrary here, i just can't imagine a scenario where a thirteen year old me has a friendly chat with my dad inspired by an article on level 42 or something.
i'm not saying it's something you don't grow out of. sure, later in life you may realise that some of the stuff your dad liked was good after all, but surely it's not a natural position?
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Personally much of the music I listen to now stems from what I listened to as a result of my dad playing it when I was younger, he was very into guitar based rock such as Direc Straits, Chris Rea and many more. Though I'm sure I would have distanced myself from most things my dad liked at the time music never seemed to be an issue, I liked much of the stuff he listened to, and much to my surprise he liked many of the bands that I got into, like Guns n' Roses, Bush and the like. I can understand that anything your parents like = you must dislike it as a kid, but surely most people grow out of what is, afterall, a somewhat immature mindset?
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quote:Originally posted by Physic: I can understand that anything your parents like = you must dislike it as a kid, but surely most people grow out of what is, afterall, a somewhat immature mindset?
Hmm... I'm still not a big fan of nineteenth-century French organ music.
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posted
Perhaps that was a stupid response to your stupid statement OM, but perhaps we had different relationships with our fathers as teenagers?
Yes to a certain extent I did want a generation gap, but the rap, and punk, and heavier rock stuff I liked served that purpose perfectly well.
I've always talked to my father about music, and liked having a Dad who listened to John Peel, asked me about what music I liked, even for tapes for the car, and that didn't fundamentally change during my teens.
Also re: early Q, what Dang said.
[ 01.12.2004, 10:59: Message edited by: Boy Racer ]
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quote:Originally posted by kovacs: I think there is cool-variation within the Dire Straits oeuvre. I own "Making Movies" and "Dire Straits", which I know risk mockery, but which I also know are really genuinely class. So the joke is on anyone who laughs at those albums. However, "Brothers in Arms" is, I feel, more dubious.
I enjoy Dire Straits very much, even today. The release of "live at the BBC" on CD a few years back was a great thing - a still-unpolished slice of their early material. And they were their best when they were least polished. Compare this to "the bug" or other later singles, where it seemed the band was writing and performing not for the love of the material but due to a clause in a record contract. Which never leads to the best output.
In this case, I think the "lack of taste" label would apply more appropriately to those who derisively sneer at the band... but it wouldn't matter to me if no-one else liked them. I still would, and I still do.
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quote:Originally posted by Roy: Now I would like to know where these people/bands rank in the Shame or Claim stakes:
CringeFactor™ gradings (out of ten):
1. The Police - four 2. Sting - nine 3. Paul McCartney - seven 4. Jean Michelle-Jarre - eight 5. Tangerine Dream - six 6. INXS - seven 7. Tin Machine - eight 8. Guns N' Roses - five 9. Pet Shop Boys - seven 10.Bros - ninePosts: 14015
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Everyone will have their own take on it of course, but for me:
1. The Police - cool as
2. Sting - alright until maybe 5 years ago, anything he did after that sucks.
3. Paul McCartney - The Frog Chorus - need I say more?
4. Jean Michelle-Jarre - never saw the attraction in the first place, but very definitely anorak music now [speaks she who is by no means a young teenybopper herself!]
5. Tangerine Dream - dunno
6. INXS - sucks
7. Tin Machine - dunno
8. Guns N' Roses - I still like some of their songs, although they do sound very much "of their era" - I reckon they can still pass muster though.
9. Pet Shop Boys - eh?
10.Bros - never was, never will be.
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I used to like Sigue Sigue Sputnik and before that Styx.
I don't think I could come up with any compelling arguments to defend them.
Fortunatley I owned them on tape and so have not made the various moves with me. The same cannot be said for some very dodgy house/techno records.
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quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: CringeFactor™ gradings (out of ten):
4. Jean Michelle-Jarre - eight
fuck off, Jean Michelle-Jarre made some great tunes.
quote: 8. Guns N' Roses - five
Fuck off even more, Guns n' Roses were my favourite band when I was a teen and I will not have them described as cringe-worthy! Posts: 2337
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-JMJ - just dated, not embarrasing, just dated. -Guns n' Roses - Of course they are cringeworthy! God, there was nothing better than 'you could be mine' slapped between a scene where a floppy fringed Eddie Furlungs would ride off on his 25cc dirt bike, but not cringeworthy. Axel Rose put socks down his lycra shorts. Slash played a solo on a mountain top without a long extension lead. Izzy Stradlin is barely even a comedy sexual-pun name. Man, I would dance my ass off to 'Locomotive' right here and now, just as long as....just as long as no-one saw me dance.
quote:Originally posted by Physic: Fuck off even more, Guns n' Roses were my favourite band when I was a teen and I will not have them described as cringe-worthy!
They were also my favourite band when I was thirteen. My dad banned their tape from the car after hearing Get in the Ring. Whatever - they still make me cringe.
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D'you reckon Jean Michelle Jarre has a mini-him on stage who humps his la-ser?
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H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
quote:Originally posted by omikin:
quote:Originally posted by Boy Racer:
quote:Originally posted by omikin: the fact that it was your dad's copy in the first place says it all.
The fact that you see this as a problem says a great deal to me.
please tell me what it does say to you, boy.
as a teenager, did you not want a generation gap between yourself and your parents?
wouldn't that make you instinctively averse to anything they liked or thought was cool?
i'm not trying to be contrary here, i just can't imagine a scenario where a thirteen year old me has a friendly chat with my dad inspired by an article on level 42 or something.
i'm not saying it's something you don't grow out of. sure, later in life you may realise that some of the stuff your dad liked was good after all, but surely it's not a natural position?
This is in fact the whole argument. What is objectively good versus what is subjectively good. Do your opinions follow those of the pack and therefore you only believe something is subjectively good because other people say they do?
Do you consider that something is objectively good and consequently the received wisdom of popular opinion is either misinformed, formed from an inappropriate basis or entirely irrelevant?
Anyone who says Paul McCartney - Frog Chorus, nuff said, is I suspect in the former camp. No offence saltrock but to dismiss a hugely influential career on the grounds of one duff track is somewhat sheeplike.
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quote:Originally posted by Hippy: Anyone who says Paul McCartney - Frog Chorus, nuff said, is I suspect in the former camp. No offence saltrock but to dismiss a hugely influential career on the grounds of one duff track is somewhat sheeplike.
Fair dos. I wasn't actually meaning to dismiss his entire career, but for me [and this is afterall about personal taste] whenever someone mentions Paul McCartney, I tend to think of the Frog Chorus and Mull of MacKintire. Perhaps not being a big fan of his I have missed out on a lot of good stuff that he did.
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Guns and Roses were and will always be cool - but indeed for that time. There were elements of them that were shite (Axl Rose wearing lycra pants, singing from Autocue etc), but you try and deny the resist of the air guitar when you hear Paradise City or tell me that Sweet Child of mine is bobbins.
Jean Michel Jarre whilst obviously pretentious, is indeed a fine musician and elements of Oxygene and Equinoxe are some of the finest synthesizer pieces ever written, and nearly as important to the whole sythesizer movement as say Kraftwerk, IMHO.
And may I just also add that though mentioned - Level 42 - excellent! My first ever live gig, and so influential to so many bass players. Recentley I was in an SU bar at Oxford Uni with Random Jon from the Wildhearts, and they had the 10 minute remix of Hot Water on the Jukebox. Should have seen the man go nuts (much to the dismay of the other band members and the students) to that. happy Days (soon to be relived!)
If you can reliably differentiate between Keane, Coldplay and Travis then you will be declared champion!
Although of course they are thought of as cool by The Establishement, and are in fact shit which is the wrong way round for the thread...
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'Bedshaped' is actually one of the best songs I've heard this year, but the rest seems to be a shapeless mush of uselessness. And the boy has a massive face.
You win if you support all of their work, and his massive face.
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H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
I support all of their work, and his massive face.
Seriously, I think the songs of Travis, Coldplay and Keane are cleverly written (both melodically and lyrically). I think this backlash against "sensitive" rock/pop is just a "Bored now. Feed me new and different!" comment rather than a realistic assessment of their quality.
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quote:Originally posted by H1ppychick: I think this backlash against "sensitive" rock/pop is just a "Bored now. Feed me new and different!" comment rather than a realistic assessment of their quality.
I don't see the point of making music that isn't in some way "new or different".
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H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
What's the problem with it just being "good"?
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H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
Otherwise why would anyone ever listen to an album more than once?
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quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: I don't see the point of making music that isn't in some way "new or different".
Following Ben's example, I did some kitchen decoration the other day, and played Girls Aloud's debut album twice, relishing its joycore energy again. "No Good Advice" steals blatantly from "My Sharona", "Life Got Cold" unapologetically pastiches "Wonderwall". For that matter, "Some Might Say" ends with a lift from "Little Help From My Friends". I don't love either song, but "Life Thru A Lens" (Williams) is a twin of "Australia" (Manics).
If you turn your nose up at everything recycled, reinvented and re-envisioned, you will be throwing out most of the last two decades' popular culture.
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: If you turn your nose up at everything recycled, reinvented and re-envisioned, you will be throwing out most of the last two decades' popular culture.
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