quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: My DMs were literally falling apart and had been for some time. I maintained I "couldn't afford" to replace them (money better spent on booze; computer games).I only really replaced them because Octavia begged me to. If it wasn't for her I reckon I'd still be wearing (what was left) of them.
So true. I was in a similar situation with my then unfashionable specs - they were still in one piece, and as my eyesight hadn't deteriorated spending money on a new pair was incredibly annoying - money I would have rather spent on WW2 memorabilia or 1:72 die-cast tanks. Both my mother and Nightowl kept complaining about my not changing them - and it took only a bizarre accident to force me to get a new pair.
I got two new pairs, as it goes - I am now very pleased with the result and agree that I should have done it earlier, but handing over the credit card to pay for them was akin to pulling my own teeth out.
As far as shoes are concerned, I still have the scuffed pair of Cats I had back in 1999.
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Octavia
I hate Valentine's Day. Stupid commercialised crap
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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by dang65: If you've scrimped and saved for years to buy your own place then how does it help anyone to just sell up and throw it all away? I'm not suggesting that someone with a thousand pound a month mortgage payment and council taxes to go with it should just get that all paid by the DSS (or whatever they're called this week), but people who have bought a little council house or a weeny first-time buyer's flat shouldn't be abandoned when they are obviously the types that are doing their best to improve their lot on their own and not to scrounge off the state. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Umm. Belatedly. If you are a homeowner etc, then you probably have an infinitely better credit rating than chavvers, and if you need to, your mortgage company will allow you to extend your mortgage a bit so your monthly payments are lower, or take a payment holiday. And if they don't, then it's time to remortgage, especially as interest rates are going down this month.
And on the other thing, my latest theory is this. Ok, if you have a childe everyone pays for you to take time off work, and pays you monies for the childe's upbringing, schooling, healthcare, blah blah blah. I accept that these childes may grow up to be useful taxpayers etc. But a) - if I choose not to have four children, I want the equivalent of four years off work, please, and b) - if your childe doesn't grow up to be a taxpayer, you should damn well give all that money back.
In haste.
Darryn here - Ooops, I hit edit rather than reply and killed the post, this is as best as I can put it back right now - SORRY OCTO
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I think its a 'tough shit' situation. Families have already had their largely selfish decisions like 'having children' subsidised by those that didn't make that decision. Even if some people don't like it, the general benefit is obvious, well, mostly. The proposition that people who chose not to 'take the risk' of owning their own home should further subsidise the people who did is puerile and self-serving.
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quote:Originally posted by Octavia: b) - if your childe doesn't grow up to be a taxpayer, you should damn well give all that money back.
Quite so. Parents who have foolishly lost a child to cot death, leukaemia or drink driving should expect a hefty bill to reimburse the rest of us for everything spent on the deceased unit up to that point.
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It appears that I've somehow come across on this thread as feeling hard done by or something, which I really didn't intend. Perhaps it was writing stuff like:
Where's the justice in that?
By featuring the Steelgate I was, of course, signifying that it was the voice of another making the comment. I'm quite happy with my own situation and I do not expect or wish for aid from the government if my "gamble" goes tits up all of a sudden.
On the other hand, it is hard to see why someone who has taken the "gamble" of renting and not paying into a pension will get baled out when compared to another person on the same income who has managed to get themselves into their own property. The same money, we're talking about. In fact, there must be a lot of people who rent property who are on much higher incomes than others who buy property. If the renters suddenly find they can't pay their rent then, by the same logic as "sell your property you smug git", they should move to cheaper accomodation, sell the car and TV etc etc.
Basically, each case needs to be judged individually. Yeah, I would fail on the grounds that I have good equity and could afford to sell up and move on without major disruption or financial loss, but someone in a weeny ex-council house like we used to have in London, with no equity and little hope of selling and nowhere cheaper to move to... well, how are they in any way better off than someone renting a house in the same road? In the same way as society pays for schooling for the good of the whole, it must surely be for the good of everyone to support someone in that situation. It's the black and white "rent = benefit, mortgage = tough shit" situation which, to me, seems plainly wrong.
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Come on Octavia, who are you trying to kid? What have you ever given society? What kind of evil, selfish witch owns a four bedroom house and doesn't fill it with children?
It's time to accept that your womb is worth more than your brain. Working diligently will not get you as far as proving that your ovaries function properly.
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quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: What have you ever given society? What kind of evil, selfish witch owns a four bedroom house and doesn't fill it with children?
These are very good questions. They need answering, now.
quote:Originally posted by dang65: it is hard to see why someone who has taken the "gamble" of renting and not paying into a pension will get baled out
Dang, renting isn't a gamble. It's what a lot of people have to do. And if you think getting £47 a week to live on when you're 65 is getting baled out, then that's pretty mean-spirited.
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: Dang, renting isn't a gamble. It's what a lot of people have to do.
Yes, there are people that have to, but I tried to make it clear in my post that there are a lot of people who rent when they are in the same or better financial position as others who are buying. We rented a house when we lived in the Isle of Man, as one completely arbitrary example. Why would the rent be covered by benefit when the (cheaper) mortgage wouldn't?
quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: And if you think getting £47 a week to live on when you're 65 is getting baled out, then that's pretty mean-spirited.
Does the £47 a week include rent? I don't know the facts here, but I suspect that a 65-year-old living in a rented flat would get their rent paid + pension and a 65-year-old paying a mortgage would just get the pension.
It's the discrepancy that I'm trying to highlight, not any mean-spiritedness. I'm not trying to have the money taken away from the poor renters, I'm trying to point out that plenty of homeowners are in the same dire need but are discounted simply because they have a mortgage rather than a rent book.
Why should a homeowner have to basically jetison years of hard work in hanging in there and making mortage payments, while a renter doesn't have to budge an inch. Renters are not told to collect the deposit, flog the car and spend the cash on a cheaper gaff. You live in London? Just move to Salford, the rent's half the price there. Why does that sort of comment apply to a homeowner and not to a renter?
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I'm proper confused now. Do I get my rent paid when I'm a pensioner then?
I think it would be easier if we all lived in treehouses.
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Pensions assets in the UK can now be in the form of property. Effectively you can rent to yourself. So, I don't think I'm seeing your point.
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I could be wrong, but if one's on income support or jobseeker's allowance or whatever, I thought you get help towards your housing costs whether it's rent or mortgage interest payments. So how d'ya like them apples, Dang?
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quote:Originally posted by herbs: I could be wrong, but if one's on income support or jobseeker's allowance or whatever, I thought you get help towards your housing costs whether it's rent or mortgage interest payments. So how d'ya like them apples, Dang?
This situation seems a bit vague. I said, "I don't know the facts here," you say, "I could be wrong," and the original BBC article which sparked off this joy filled thread says:
quote:Homeowners often receive little state help, as they can be denied benefits available to people who rent or live in local authority housing or excluded from local regeneration initiatives simply because they own their own property.
Housing benefit, for example, is, usually, only available to people who rent or live in local authority accommodation.
In fact, overall, according to the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, only 8% of state help with housing costs go to homeowners.
Which is highly ambiguous. Anyone actually know what the deal is?
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would the fact that only 8% of these benefits go to homeowners be a factor of homeowners largely being in better financial positions than renters?
to be honest, i'm surprised it's as high as 8%.
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According to Shelter's website, you get income support mortgage interest (ISMA) benefit:
Most people who are unemployed or on a very low income can get help [with their mortgage].... Loans for essential repairs or improvements may be covered even if you take them out after you claim income support or job seeker's allowance.
You can't get any money to cover the capital you originally borrowed, or any investment that is linked to your mortgage (such as an endowment policy, pension or ISA). Posts: 4537
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quote:Originally posted by Octavia: if I choose not to have four children, I want the equivalent of four years off work, please, and b) - if your childe doesn't grow up to be a taxpayer, you should damn well give all that money back.[/b]
Are you aware of the concept of society?
How can anyone be so small minded? I don't get it. They'll all be bleating when they're grey and there's no people to pay their pensions.
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There seems to be a drastic shortage of winky-wanky assumption on this thread. I think it's fairly evident that Octavia wasn't actually saying she actually wants a rebate. Was she?
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quote:Originally posted by vikram: Are you aware of the concept of society?
lol. What's your contribution to society? Perpetually scampering off round the world because you're too scared to get a job? I don't agree with Octavia's comment, which seemed to me to be unserious, but I dunno - there's something that sticks in my craw about a genuinely workshy coward preaching to other people about the concept of 'society'.
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Hmm, with you there Dang. Perhaps what Octavia was after there was hyperbole or, if you will, sarcasm, for humorous effect.
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quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: lol. What's your contribution to society? Perpetually scampering off round the world because you're too scared to get a job? I don't agree with Octavia's comment, which seemed to me to be unserious, but I dunno - there's something that sticks in my craw about a genuinely workshy coward preaching to other people about the concept of 'society'.
Yeah, so I've been on an extended holiday. Actually, I may well be getting a job here next month. It's time to settle. But even if I don't, it doesn't really matter. It's been two years - am I meant to pay the equivalent taxes I'd have contributed had I stayed in Britain? Octavia seems to be arguing for a system of autonomous individuals. Perhaps she feels that the poor should pay more tax because they take so much out of the system. Or rather that the rich should have tax holidays because they didn't fall poor. How enlightened! Fuck off, Thorn.
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quote:Originally posted by vikram: Yeah, so I've been on an extended holiday. Actually, I may well be getting a job here next month. It's time to settle. But even if I don't, it doesn't really matter. It's been two years - am I meant to pay the equivalent taxes I'd have contributed had I stayed in Britain? Octavia seems to be arguing for a system of autonomous individuals. Perhaps she feels that the poor should pay more tax because they take so much out of the system. Or rather that the rich should have tax holidays because they didn't fall poor. How enlightened! Fuck off, Thorn.
I'm not really interested in defending something that was obviously a joke. And to be honest, on the whole I couldn't really give a fuck how you spend your time - that's your business. However, I did do a kind of disbelieving half-laugh at the idea of someone who's indulged themselves with extended holidays for most of their working life, who's continually shied away from actually getting a proper job, coming out and preaching to someone about their obligations to keep working and earning in order to play their meaningful role in society. I mean - that just makes you look like a turd.
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quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: preaching to someone about their obligations to keep working and earning in order to play their meaningful role in society.
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Hmmm. Both on this thread and the Wonka thread yesterday we seem to be running into a problem of people not knowing when other people are 'trying to be funny' or 'actually being serious'. OR people claiming 'I/hir was just being funny, you cununt' or 'chill out, twat, I thought you were joking'.
This just another symptom of the relentless americanisation of our society? Posts: 8657
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It does seem to be a bit tense doesn't it. Perhaps I should lighten the mood with amusing tales from my camping trip? I hope there will be photos soon....
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Maybe this thread is illustrating, yet again, the reason why we don't seem to have revolutions in this country these days. What I mean is, whenever one of us rages about an injustice, another one comes along and puts a completely alternative view. This occurs with situations like the invasion of Iraq, ID Cards, immigration, the distribution of state benefits, the threat of al-Qaeda etc etc.
At least in other countries one can say, "We are being oppressed by an evil government/imperialist invader/vile despot" and everyone else will go, "Yes, you're right, let's rise up and overthrow them". Nice and clean cut and well defined. Here, we're all moaning about something but it's the opposite to what the person next to us is moaning about.
quote:Originally posted by Abby: It does seem to be a bit tense doesn't it. Perhaps I should lighten the mood with amusing tales from my camping trip? I hope there will be photos soon....
Good idea Abby, and do it on the 'dumb ideas' thread in Rants. I have confessed to doing a stupid and have been left mercilessly swinging in the wind. Like a cock, with 'thread killer' tatooed on it's underside.
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quote:Originally posted by Abby: It does seem to be a bit tense doesn't it. Perhaps I should lighten the mood with amusing tales from my camping trip? I hope there will be photos soon....
Good idea Abby, and do it on the 'dumb ideas' thread in Rants. I have confessed to doing a stupid and have been left mercilessly swinging in the wind. Like a cock, with 'thread killer' tatooed on it's underside.
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Just to point out (although the conversation has wandered a bit away from this subject):
Having a home does not necessarily mean you have equity. Here the prices for homes are so high that first time homebuyers (who don’t have help from mommy and daddy) have to use the increasingly popular tool of interest only mortgages, which could result in a negative equity if the house value decreases.
I could see how this could be considered poverty: paying a huge chunk of your salary to maintain a house that is further draining your resources.
However, this does rely on a definition of poverty that has to do with more than just the income you take home from work.
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quote:Originally posted by rooster: However, this does rely on a definition of poverty that has to do with more than just the income you take home from work.
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