scrawny
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posted
Advertising does work, that’s why people invest millions in it. This is a good example of advertising done well – it got people talking before the film even made it to the edit room, it’s caused a load of buzz around it, it’s got a great soundtrack which will probably do wonders for the career of the guy singing and it looks like art. This is despite the company and the agency spending practically nothing on promoting the campaign itself – all word of mouth. This whole ‘la la laaa marketers are evil adverts are boring oh no they won’t be suckering me into buying any of that shit’ is kind of pathetic. VP, I’m sure you’ve seen pretty colours before, but blanket cynicism is so exhausting. It’s a beautiful film – just because it was funded to promote a TV doesn’t mean it’s not an enjoyable viewing experience in its own right.
Within the next ten years, everything will be branded. Music has already gone, and brands (Motorola, Absolut, Sprite) are conquering the art space. Cinema is branded. TV is branded. Any kind of life experience will soon have a logo attached to it. This is not necessarily a good thing, but it does mean if you continue to turn your back on everything that has been funded by anyone with a registered trademark, you will be forced to gouge your own eyes out and live in a tree.
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quote:Originally posted by scrawny: Within the next ten years, everything will be branded.
Any kind of life experience will soon have a logo attached to it.
I don't know... sex? Going for a run? Stroking a cat? Standing in the rain? Blanket cynicism is one naive extreme, but you're sounding like someone from bad science fiction.
posted
But Scrawny, it's just a pretty video with the name of a product attached. No matter how artful or wanky it might be, it's not good marketing, because it says nothing about the brand or the product. Do you see what I'm driving at here? Can you understand why I think this (probably very entertaining and amazing) piece of video does not constitute good marketing?
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scrawny
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posted
Fair enough, although the reach of the adman’s dollar is extraordinary.
Please note before Benway hangs himself that I didn’t say this was a good thing – I just acknowledged that it is a thing at all. Admittedly my post was more of a reaction to the ‘blanket cynicism’ to which I referred, which makes me cross. It’s a cultural phenomenon, just like comics, or a new wave of music, and not a new one at that – the launch of a new Levi’s commercial in the 90s was a pop culture landmark. If I piped up on a thread about comics saying ‘all comics are crap and boring GOD you people make me sick I don’t understand how you can be interested in them GOD are you MENTAL or something’ I would be quite rightly accused of being God’s Plumber and shat on from a great height. Also, it’s not like I actively sought out this information – it’s what I do for a living, not some obscure hobby by which I attempt to get everyone else involved in the wonder that is marketing and persuade them to buy things they don’t really need. It’s not realistic to assume that you can avoid all marketing messages – they are and always have been part of life. As Ringo said, people can make their own minds up. But as I have no plans to buy a Sony TV, I don’t see anything wrong with appreciating something done well which is visually intriguing in its own right. Hurray! I was not suckered! I outwitted the evil marketer yet again! And I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Whassup with that?
Ringo - that Honda ad of which you are so fond is just a pretty film with a brand attached, based around a simple idea that demonstrated the functions of the thing it was advertising. They work in the same way.
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posted
But 'Cog' showed parts of the product through the entire length of the advert and actually showed you the following features of the car (which I can remember, there were probably more) - keyless entry, automatic rain sensing window wipers, 12 speaker audio system, and pushbutton boot hatch control. Plus it demonstrated the precision with which the car was engineered, a testament to the quality of Honda cars and the ability of thier engineers - as they put it "Isn't it great when things just... work?"
posted
I pretty much dislike all adverts apart from the Hyundai one. With the lezzing up. Oh, and Barry Scott is alright. And, as much as Worhol et al fucked about with the boundaries between art and advertising, it's kidding yourself to believe there's anything meaningful or worthy in the cold hard manipulative sell. Adverts are false almost by definition.
posted
I am quite happy snuggled up under my cynicism blanket glaring out at the world. Yes, adverts are almost everywhere, and yes they can be very effective. Am I supposed to be pathetically grateful that once every 14 months or so an "artistic" one is presented to me in a pompous flurry of self-congratulatory fanfare?
We may well be heading for a brand-saturated future. I would imagine that the outcome will be increased annoyance at the pervasiveness of pretentious ads (ie recent H&M farce) or total indifference as the whacky/artistic concepts start to blur into one ignorable self-important fuzz.
I either flick to another channel (and watch anything for 3 minutes), go for a slash or make a drink when the ads are on. Not to be deliberately anti-the man or anything, I just find ads boring at best and fucking annoying at worst.
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scrawny
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: No matter how artful or wanky it might be, it's not good marketing, because it says nothing about the brand or the product.
Yes it does. It says that they're the sort of people who would take half a million bouncy balls to the top of a hill and throw them off, which is kind of cool. This whole thread started when Bill Oddie posted a link to the site and said 'Wow, this is very cool'. The pictures on this Flickr site are also kind of cool.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sepiatone/sets/720725/ OK, maybe it doesn't work for you, but some of that cool has to rub off somewhere, right? You can see how it would work for some people, right? Do you see what I'm driving at here?
I seem to have ended up defending the entire advertising industry here, which I'm not altogether keen to do given that it's mostly populated by wankers who are infecting me with their wankiness. Soon I won't be able to describe a human emotion without using the word 'product'. The point is, I'm not trying to argue that it means anything, just that it's gorgeous and people seem to like it.
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scrawny
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: Am I supposed to be pathetically grateful that once every 14 months or so an "artistic" one is presented to me in a pompous flurry of self-congratulatory fanfare?
No. It's just pretty. Worth a watch.
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: I either flick to another channel (and watch anything for 3 minutes), go for a slash or make a drink when the ads are on. Not to be deliberately anti-the man or anything, I just find ads boring at best and fucking annoying at worst.
Fair enough, and like I said, I'm not attempting to defend the entire industry as much of what it churns out IS fucking annoying. I just can't see the benefit of shutting your eyes and making your mind up before you've even seen something.
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posted
like veep i have a tendency to flick over and watch absolutely anything else really absolutely anything even snooker when the ads come on nowadays. if you dont, then you are running the risk off watching something akin to the payoff for the cleansing balm looroll where the lady says 'what, for my bottom?'.
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posted
Come on Scrawny, keep going! I think you're doing great. Here's another attack on you/the world of advertising ---> This bouncy ball thing is cool in the way that Steve "The merciless" Jobs says the lastest Ipod Nano is cool, ie, it's corporate cool, cool as in "efficient" and "useful" and "cash cow". Not actually cool.
Although, 'cool' is quite an interesting and difficult concept when it comes to advertising. As soon as somebody like Jobs tells the world that something is cool, that seems to instantly make it not cool. Same with Mr. Gates, who pioneered the technique of replacing 'good' with 'cool'. Scrawny here is telling the audience that chucking a load of balls down a hill is cool. The audience doesn't seem convinced. Why is this. I think it's because cool is such a difficult and personal thing to try and describe. Or at least, we are lead to believe that it's personal, that by finding and identifying with things that are cool, we ourselves become cooler. But most of the time, we are told what's cool by the use of fairly obvious signifiers, for instance, Levis sponsoring a self-consciously 'cool' musical performance.
The word is used so much now, but I'm not sure exactly what it means. Like, a Levis ad would seem to be the definition of something that is not cool because it tries so hard to be cool, but can it surpass this by the use of cool imagery? Can a company become cool? Google seemed to manage it for a while, but it's going the same way as microsoft now. I'm sure that Scrawny knows all about this kind of thing. I just see the list of "top ten brands" in Metro once a year, and have a little cry on the inside, before checking my Orange phone (always highly placed - the coolest brand of telecoms provider for twenty something londoners), burning my mouth on my Starbucks, and then stroking my Harley Davidson cock.
I tend to waver a little bit in my understanding of cool. I'm not really sure what it is anymore, so I've kind of dropped out of the game a little bit. I'll spend £100 on a fashionable pair of jeans, but is this cool? Is this more or less cool than finding a pair of fashionable jeans for £5, and customising them. I would say, the latter is cooler, but it is clearly trying to be cool. So, it's only cool if it appears effortless. Diesel are probably one of the brands that most visibly chases a classic definition of cool - the James Dean aloofness mixed in with Jet Set European style, but is it cool to pay £100 for a pair of jeans? OR is the cool part having so much money that £100 isn't a lot of money.
Lol, I could just talk to myself for ever about this.
Sorry Scrawny. But, you are still evil - a shell of your former self.
[ 28.10.2005, 07:52: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: I just can't see the benefit of shutting your eyes and making your mind up before you've even seen something.
Well, firstly this is an effective method of infuriating people that I have been employing since I was old enough to refuse food that I didn't like the look of. Secondly, it is the fact that I'm expected to be part of this "buzz" surrounding the ad, and engaging in "water cooler conversations" that automatically triggers a contrariness response that results in aggressive dismissal of the object in question.
I stand by this defence mechanism, as most weird-looking foods are weird (when 5 of the world's top dishes/snacks are derived from the humble potato, why look further afield?), and things that sound a bit wanky usually are. I think we all know who's won here.
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posted
Some of those flickr pictures are lovely, and I especially like them having been on or near that hill in August. I would like them if someone told me it was an "art project" instead of an "advert", too. Maybe there's not that much difference; artists are brands too.
I think it's possible to celebrate an appreciation of the images and idea behind this advertisement from one's feelings about advertising as a whole.
I agree it's oddly, wrongly hot to see two fit girls arguing one-on-one, online.
posted
The artist as brand? Yeah, I can kind of dig that. Is suppose then you may as well call all art 'product', because even if it's not sold, it can still being in cultural capital, like Banky's street pictures. I suppose artists turn out plenty pieces purely for cash. But, they aren't trying to make you buy something with their product - the product sells itself to a degree. The concept is the purpose of the thing. Advertising is about selling something else, so in itself, it is meaningless. Whatever concept it appears to have is just a distraction, a sleight of hand. The experience of being advertised to isn't as fufilling as consuming culture on your own terms.
I'm talking shit here.
[ 28.10.2005, 08:31: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
quote:Originally posted by Ringo: No matter how artful or wanky it might be, it's not good marketing, because it says nothing about the brand or the product.
Yes it does. It says that they're the sort of people who would take half a million bouncy balls to the top of a hill and throw them off, which is kind of cool. This whole thread started when Bill Oddie posted a link to the site and said 'Wow, this is very cool'. The pictures on this Flickr site are also kind of cool.
Those pictures are good. But still, no it bloody well doesn't.
Just because the art is good, by whatever criteria you choose to use to judge it, doesn't make Sony cool because they're the kind of people who like it.
It just makes them the kind of corporation who can afford to buy the art/the artist. Just like not so long ago they would've been falling over themselves to buy the cheesy girl in bikini holding their product whilst lolling on a car bonnet. Or whatever. Cos they're the kind of people who get to hang out with girls like that.
scrawny
One Mojito, two Gin and Tonics, Three Bacardi Lime Sodas, and a couple of pints of Stella please.
posted
Ringo, you're missing the point. They didn't 'buy' the artist or the art, they created it. It's something they did for themselves. No artistic integrity is for sale here - it's just an ad. They're not infringing on anything you hold sacred. They've just created something entertaining in the hope that you'll like it.
I totally agree with Kovacs that you can distance your enjoyment for the ad from the product itself, like I said, I'm not going to buy a TV because of it, but people who are in the market for a TV might look at the ad and say hey, that looks kind of cool. Maybe we'll get that one.
And Benway, the fact that audiences are now much more difficult to reach because of media fragmentation computer games the internet blah blah blah means that most brands are now attempting to engage with potential consumers in an entertaining way - in a way which means the consumer gets something from the experience, whether it's a gig, or a TV channel, or a free mobile download, or a party. Yes, underneath it all, it's still a cold hard sell, but you don't have to buy into it. You can just take the fun and run. Doesn't mean you're selling out.
Somehow arguing with you guys isn't as fun as arguing with VP.
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scrawny
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: I'm sure that Scrawny knows all about this kind of thing.
Oy! Bitch.
quote: Sorry Scrawny. But, you are still evil - a shell of your former self.
No I'm not, I just have a different job. C'moooon, I haven't posted for ages. Allow me to get involved in a debate about which I actually know something for once.
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quote:Originally posted by scrawny: Ringo, you're missing the point. They didn't 'buy' the artist or the art, they created it. It's something they did for themselves. No artistic integrity is for sale here - it's just an ad. They're not infringing on anything you hold sacred. They've just created something entertaining in the hope that you'll like it.
Nono it is you that is missing the point. I never said the advert wasn't clever, or arty, or really entertaining, or visually stunning. It could be 30 seconds of sheer rapture, a mechanical hand could spring from the screen and wank me into a coma, but it still doesn't mean it's good marketing. Because at no point between mechanical tugs would the thought actually cross my mind to buy the product which is being advertised. And as amazing and life changing an experience watching this advert may be, if it doesn't encourage me to take an interest in the product, how could this be construed as great marketing?
I say: It isn't. And let's face it, the more you've been talking about it, the more you've steered towards the principle that it's ok to simply enjoy the entertainment factor of the clip, and not worry about the product whatsoever. So you yourself have really admitted that the advert fails in the principle point of any advert - to actually make you want to buy something.
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posted
like Sony's new Bravia TV? I can see your game, sister. Are you part of a crack team of "awakeners", shaping the information environment to allow maximum infection from viral marketing outbreaks? With surgical precision and virtual omnipresence, you impregnate us with ideas, thoughts, the seeds of concepts, so that our desires grow over time, putting down roots into the freudian depths of our personalities. One minute, we're sitting at home, resting. But then in a heartbeat, we're signing a credit agreement in Comet, with no idea what we're even buying. Like on that episode of Futurama with the chronotons.
[ 28.10.2005, 09:06: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
posted
Sorry Scrawny, I'm not trying to be difficult or argue with you for the sake of it, I just think you've been a little taken in by all the flashy stuff and kinda lost sight of what advertising's all about. I'm just trying to make you see my point of view and I dont' think you're really getting it, because you seem to think I'm criticising the artfulness of the advert itself, which I'm honestly not.
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The advert is causing an association in your mind between something that you have enjoyed and their brand name. It's more subtle that just going "buy our shit". And it makes the company as a whole look good to consumers and other companies. It's about image projection and it's about callous emotional hijacking. But you're just going to say something about me not getting your point, right? And something about being wanked off by a robot? Go on, say it. If you were wanked off by your TV every time you saw an advert for a brand of ice cream, when shopping for ice cream, your brain would naturally try to maximise your pleasure, and the memory of the masturbation would stir something. But the clever part is that you wouldn't even know this happening, because you have been brainwashed by this crude sexual manipulation.
I know, because I supposedly did a module in 'social psychology'. Bet you feel small now, eh?
[ 28.10.2005, 09:16: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
posted
Perhaps the advert just isn't designed for me since I already like Sony's products and don't need any convincing that they're any good.
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posted
as thr0n pointed out, the advert will then reassure you that your continued support of Sony is a wise move. It doesn't matter what you 'think', because this shit all goes on in the subconscious.
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