Personally I found The Sun's description of a rare example of our Parliamentary Democracy in action interesting to say the least, but I'm not going to get all worked up about this. After all, The Sun calling people 'Traitors!' is all part of what makes this nation great.
Anyway, I'm sure this has been discussed on other threads in the past, but I don't care, I find this kind of shit fascinating. So many angles to the story, so much to get worked up about, so:
- About 70% of the population think that detaining suspected terrorists for 90 days is a good thing. At least some of yow must fit into that camp, despite the woolly liberal tendancies on this board. Are you one of the 70%? Why? Why not?
- The vast majority of the British public would have nothing to fear from this bill, as any wrongful detentions are surely almost exclusively going to impact upon the non-white minority. So - it's not my civil liberties that would be affected, so it doesn't really matter. Do people think like that? Or doesn't race come into it? Is it just fear?
- Is it better that one man suffers an injustice whilst 10 potential killers are locked up, or is it better that all 11 are on the streets?
- Was yesterday a shining example of our democracy in action, or did the arguments about public safety and civil liberties play second fiddle to party politics and political point scoring?
- The Labour Government suffered its first defeat in the commons since taking power in 1997. Where does this leave Tony and his gang? Are they f*cked or is this just a blip? Is this really the beginning of the end for the Tony Blair?
- Do you give a shit about any of this?
What are your views about any or all of these questions? What's your take on this? Have your say.
[ 10.11.2005, 09:18: Message edited by: George the Robot ]
quote:- About 70% of the population think that detaining suspected terrorists for 90 days is a good thing. At least some of yow must fit into that camp, despite the woolly liberal tendancies on this board. Are you one of the 70%? Why? Why not?
I’m in the 30%. 90 days is wrong. 28 days is wrong. I was never all that keen on 14, to be honest. It gives the police too much power. It infringes civil liberties. It’s open to so much abuse. It’s a draconian law and an unspeakably unsafe one. Even the 28 days makes me quite angry.
quote:- The vast majority of the British public would have nothing to fear from this bill, as any wrongful detentions are surely almost exclusively going to impact upon the non-white minority. So - it's not my civil liberties that would be affected, so it doesn't really matter. Do people think like that? Or doesn't race come into it? Is it just fear?
The Have Your Say board seems to cluttered up with people who have an unshakeable faith in the police to be right. Bless ‘em! The Have Your Say people, not the police. I think a large amount of support for the Bill comes from the demanded by the police thing. It’s less about actual fear on the streets and more about well if this makes us safer, let’s have it coming from people with no experience of, or empathy for what might happen to a suspect detained under a 90-day law.
quote:- Is it better that one man suffers an injustice whilst 10 potential killers are locked up, or is it better that all 11 are on the streets?
Too simplistic. Can’t be sensibly answered.
quote:- Was yesterday a shining example of our democracy in action, or did the arguments about public safety and civil liberties play second fiddle to party politics and political point scoring?
Combination of the above. In fact I imagine there were a number of Labour MPs rejoicing at the fact they could vote to their conscience and fuck Tony, a number of Labour MPs voting against their conscience not to fuck their careers and a number voting with their conscience but regretting the destabilising effect on the party. I bet the Liberals were loving every last entertaining minute of it and I bet the Tories had some reserves about not being seen as tough on terrorism ahead of choosing a new leader. My MP, for whom I voted, voted for the Bill. I’m not going to his Christmas Party now. I don’t want to eat mince pies of repression.
quote:- The Labour Government suffered its first defeat in the commons since taking power in 1997. Where does this leave Tony and his gang? Are they f*cked or is this just a blip? Is this really the beginning of the end for the Tony Blair?
He’ll go at some point before the next election, but my guess is he’ll hang on as long as possible, and he’s come through this not very damaged overall. He tends to crawl his way out of things.
posted
The debate was interesting. There was the strange site of a Conservative leader expressing concern at the erosion of civil liberties and warning of the negative impact on ethnic minority communities, matched only by the Sun front page chatising the Cons for not supporting Labour.
Blair will survive this, but this could be the beginning of the end, so to speak. Labour will have to be careful not to descend into in-fighting over who is to succeed Blair but that does look inevitable.
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quote:Originally posted by Black Mask: I think 28 days is fair. If the police can't fit someone up within four weeks the country really has gone to the dogs.
Sorry, but that IS one of the top 5 posts I've seen on the board to date. (I made people jump when I laughed)
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