scrawny
One Mojito, two Gin and Tonics, Three Bacardi Lime Sodas, and a couple of pints of Stella please.
posted
Last night, trapped in one of those 'I would got to bed if I could be bothered to get off the sofa' waves of apathy, I ended up watching 'SEX: The Annabel Chong Story' on Channel Four. Everybody presumably knows about this now, but if not, Annabel Chong was an American college student of Korean/Singaporean origin who turned her hand to making porn films, and then made the record books by shagging 251 men in ten hours - her notorious 'gang bang'.
This was probably discussed to the nines at the time, but seeing it again, I found myself distinctly uncomfortable all over again with Chong's insistence that she'd made an empowering statement for women everywhere, casting women in the role of the stud rather than the slag - user rather than used. As the queue of greasy truckers formed, it became difficult to believe that the only person getting her kicks was Chong herself. Later on in the film, her admission that she cuts herself regularly to ease the painful memory of her rape in London 5 years previously would seem to indicate that the 'Gang bang' wasn't quite the statement of empowerment she claimed at the time, but more an attempt to assuage the damage done by her previous sexual experience. Anyway.
What I was thinking was this. Annabel Chong's is an extreme example, but her notion of recasting the woman as a stud is an interesting one. Will women ever be treated entirely equally in terms of attitudes to sexual promiscuity? Or are we doomed to all have reactions like mine - to assume, even before I knew she was 'damaged' by the rape (her words - even though when she talks about the rape she makes it sound like just another sexual exploit, bandying the word 'rape' around willy-nilly), that she was entirely delusional and just being 'used' by all 251 men? We have come a long way in our attitudes to sex. Ann Summers has made a shitload of money out of women's increasingly liberal attitudes to their own sexuality. But is promiscuity the last taboo, and will women ever be able to adopt the sexual practices more commonly associated with men without being labelled total slags?
[ 14.03.2005, 06:53: Message edited by: scrawny ]
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posted
Why is it that some women often appear to want to 'empower' themselves into the basest grotesqueries of male behaviour? You know? It's like the whole drive towards female equality has resulted in an increasing number of women acting like men in the worst possible way.
Having done away with the archaic idea that women should be demure, homebound maternal and silent, how do modern young women celebrate this? By going out in noisy gaggles of sexually charged up boozy groups of vomiting neanderthals. Sure - it's being on an equal footing as men, but it's the worst kind of male behaviour.
Upon challenging the double standards in the work place, and forging a position where they could be taken seriously, women had astutely emancipated themselves to take part in avarice, power hunger and money worship at the expense of the family. So they did, emulating the behaviour of fuckwitted money-grubbing kid neglecting porsche driving men throughout the Western world.
So what's up for grabs next? Promiscuity? Now women are after the male lout's supposed kudos for banging vast numbers of the opposite sex in a loveless boozy exchange performed not for affection or pleasure but rather the roaring approval of your intellectually bereft peers? Man - you chicks really do set your aspirations high.
And look: when the plates of sexual equality were shifting, what was the male response? Did we scratch our balls and wait for women to lower themselves to our levels, ready to hand them a Hooch as soon as the were able to mire themselves in the same behaviour. No! Men were endeavouring to elevate their thinking to embrace the higher qualities of femininity. We developed the concept of the new man: a sensitive, loyal, humble character who put his family first and took great care with his health to maximise the amount of pleasure he could draw from the loving relationships with the women in his life. We were looking forward to it! It was going to be a brilliant new world, where everyone embraced the lofty qualities embodied in women. But women let us down. All they want - apparently - is to behave as badly as us. Thanks a lot girls. You ruined everything. Posts: 13758
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posted
I don't think it is about empowerment, or as Thorn has suggested lowering ourselves to the basest of male grotesqueries I think it's just a wish to have preconception of a female who sleeps around as a bad person changed to the realisation that woman like sex as much as men and that sometimes we too would like no-strings attached sex for the sake of it without being labelled as a slut (which has derogatory conatations). Saying that taking part in a 256 men gang-bang isn't really the right way to do that.
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posted
Of course, if you cease to care what these people think, then the problem goes away on its own.
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scrawny
One Mojito, two Gin and Tonics, Three Bacardi Lime Sodas, and a couple of pints of Stella please.
posted
Do we think that by going to such extreme lengths to prove she's a stud, not a slut, she has in fact made things worse? By claiming that all women wold be jealous of her stunt, is she reinforcing the idea that all women are dirty slags who would take it in any hole at any time from as many people as possible if they possibly could? That's not empowering. That's taking away my right to choose. i think that's what annoyed me, actually, her endless waffling about how she was doing it for women in one breath, and how she was enjoying making all women jealous of her in the next. Grr. idiot.
On a completely different tack, what do we think of the concept of the male 'stud'? Is this still alive and well, or as thorn puts it, has the new man successfully slain the rutting casanova image for good? I've met a couple of men who've slept with over 100 women. Both of them were extraordinarily charming, and great to have as friends, but I never considered having sex with them. I can't help it, but i always assume that a lad whose sexual criteria simply involve bedding as many different women as possible to be:
Missing something in his life that would make him act like that
Devoid of the requisite personality plus points necessary to hold down a relationship
Diseased
A bit sad, really. LIke this guy:
Maybe it's not that women can't be studs. Maybe 'studs' are just out.
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quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Of course, if you cease to care what these people think, then the problem goes away on its own.
Good point, but wouldn't it be nice to reach a point where slut or slag meant a woman who did just sleep round without the bad conatations that go with it, just like it would be nice to reclaim the word **** so all it meant a womans private parts rather than being used as an insult. It's the context in which these words are used which is offensive rather than the words themselves.
scrawny
One Mojito, two Gin and Tonics, Three Bacardi Lime Sodas, and a couple of pints of Stella please.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: Of course, if you cease to care what these people think, then the problem goes away on its own.
Not always possible, though, is it? There was just a case of a waitress who was constructively dismissed because she slept with a couple of other staff members and was relentlessly bullied for it until she quit. I'm trying to google it, hang on.
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quote:Originally posted by Gemini: Good point, but wouldn't it be nice to reach a point where slut or slag meant a woman who did just sleep round without the bad conatations that go with it, just like it would be nice to reclaim the word **** so all it meant a womans private parts rather than being used as an insult.
It's a nice dream, but I think the use of the word nigger has just done more to promote it's use among black men whilst making it punishable by death for white men to even think.
quote:Originally posted by scrawny: On a completely different tack, what do we think of the concept of the male 'stud'? Is this still alive and well, or as thorn puts it, has the new man successfully slain the rutting casanova image for good? I've met a couple of men who've slept with over 100 women. Both of them were extraordinarily charming, and great to have as friends, but I never considered having sex with them.
Surely people's reactions to such a number are going to vary, making it impossible to divine an overriding "opinion" for people in any meaningful way. I mean my first instinct to Gemini's comment was "but surely no-one really thinks like that anymore", until my throughts were interrupted by the asinine braying of the sales team behind me and I thought "actually, yes. They would." But no-one worthwhile woulkd, and really we shouldn't need everyone, everywhere from every background to endorse what we do in our sex lives.
I don't think the idea of a seducer, a stud, is dead exactly, but even a cursory examination of the idea reveals it as flawed indicator of sexual worthiness or attractiveness. A friend of mine recently married the ugliest man in Cardiff, and he proudly claims to have banged something like 5 times as many girls as me. Obviously he's not 5 times better than me - he'd have to be some kind of Superman. Plus his delivery of the line reveales his abhorrent habit of using women as trophies, which is an ugly idea I'd never indulge in. Anyway, I've fucked his wife so, realistically, I'm still winning.
Where was I? I forget now. O yeah. I can see why Scrawny would get annoyed about Annabelle Chong's comments on banging 256 guys making other women jealous, but come on - you're playing a dangerous game there. If you venture into a world where you expect porn stars to be able to provide incisive critical commentary on the landscape of sexuality, feminism and labelling you risk invoking a society where you wind up watching porno tapes featuring Germaine Greer being creampied.
scrawny
One Mojito, two Gin and Tonics, Three Bacardi Lime Sodas, and a couple of pints of Stella please.
posted
quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: If you venture into a world where you expect porn stars to be able to provide incisive critical commentary on the landscape of sexuality, feminism and labelling you risk invoking a society where you wind up watching porno tapes featuring Germaine Greer being creampied.
I didn't expect her to provide it. I would have possibly preferred her to shut the fuck up, or at least take the standard porn route of admitting that it was total titillation ('I'm a big-titted slut and I can't WAIT for your cock!'). It was her that provided what she clearly believed was insightful critical commentary. There were shots of her sitting in her feminist theory class spouting such gems as, 'I believe...you know...women should just, you know...be able to fuck...like men...without feeling bad. We should just todally just empower ourselves...you know...and there's all this bullshit stereotyping...it's, like, so bullshit. I mean, I'm a feminist, and i todally dig fucking, you know?'
Off topic slightly, why did your mate marry someone who is not only the ugliest man in cardiff, but uses women as trophies?
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quote:Originally posted by scrawny: why did your mate marry someone who is not only the ugliest man in cardiff, but uses women as trophies?
Well, she has a mercilessly strict life plan that necessitated her being married by the age of 24 to someone who could afford a four bedroom house and to support her as she looks after the child - this guy fitted the bill and was willing to replace his laddish activities in favour of a wife clearly out of his league and familial responsibilities. So there's no need for the sad face: they've both gotten what the want out of it and her life is working out entirely according to plan.
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Plus - she's a total slut, and none of the rest of us would have wanted to marry damaged goods like that. I mean - fine for a fuck but you hardly want to settle down with someone like that, do you?
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quote:Originally posted by scrawny: Maybe it's not that women can't be studs. Maybe 'studs' are just out.
I think we need to update our terminology. The whole point of a stud is to impregnate a mare so as to produce a baby horse for racing, eventing or (in France) devouring.
The human equivalent of a stud, unless he has a death wish, will be using a condom when he does his studding... which surely makes the analogy redundant. I mean, what sort of owner would go to all the trouble of breeding a world-class stallion - and then swaddle the creature's glory in a rubber sheathe whenever the hapless beast was brought into the presence of a lady horse? The very idea is ridiculous.
How about the gender-neutral term 'sexually incontinent'? It's equally judgemental whether applied to male or female subjects.
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quote:Originally posted by Gemini: slut or slag meant a woman who did just sleep round without the bad conatations that go with it,
I do get you, and forgive me if this is off topic but a male slag in my view is nothing to be proud of, the word slag being operative in this discription. someone who has had sex with alot of people is not something to be ashamed of its the way in which its done, EG: Thorns er... aquaintance.
quote:Originally posted by Gemini: just like it would be nice to reclaim the word **** so all it meant a womans private parts rather than being used as an insult. It's the context in which these words are used which is offensive rather than the words themselves.
I think its a persons view that makes something offensive, I know lots of people who use the word cun* with no intention of offence at all, much like the use of the word dick. I think the more these words are used the less offencive they will become thus disarming those verbal barbarians of their weaponary. The attraction of using words like cun* is the fact that they shock and offend people, that is down to the individual being offended dealing with particular language.
posted
I don't see how women feel like the don't have the upper hand in modern day. For example: one look at the Gemini Ginormopants have kept me quiet all day.
scrawny
One Mojito, two Gin and Tonics, Three Bacardi Lime Sodas, and a couple of pints of Stella please.
posted
Where the fucking shit is everyone? I mean, I don't expect everyone to post on this thread, but, you know, I kinda expected someone to post somewhere on the WHOLE forum at some point today.
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Hello Scrawny. I am partially here - trying to get my 'house in order' in case I am urgently called away by impending baby action. I was rotten with the common cold over the weekend so am still a little hazy about wh
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If it makes you feel better, I have been sat, frustrated unable to get my thoughts down to join in this thread. My web window is currently 1x1 pixels large to avoid getting caught in an open plan office.
posted
I've recently noticed this happenning every few days on TMO. I guess everyone heads off to their other fora, come the mid afternoon.
You've also been a bit poor in the mornings, TeeMooers. I get in to work at 9:00am and I expect something funny and thought-provoking to read with my coffee. There have been too many mornings when you haven't put any effort in until after 10:00am!
posted
even worse, i get in at somewhere between 8-9 am MY TIME. and often see nothing. a whole morning and a bit of the afternoon of non-productivity on TMO. of course this could mean you're all working dead hrd.
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Sorry - the break was supposed to convey my continuing not-with-it-ness today; I necked so much Night Nurse over the weekend it felt at one point like I'd turned into a life-size effigy of myself hewn from cork.
When la-baby-hour begins I'll give the following signal: Posts: 8657
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quote:Originally posted by ben: Omikin - I take it you found your little friends the other night...
yeah, we were back on schedule in no time.
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Louche
Carved TMO on her clit just to make you feel bad
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I'd post but I'm doing more exciting things. I'm sorry. Though I will be cheering with great enthusiasm from the sidelines when D finall sprogs.
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scrawny
One Mojito, two Gin and Tonics, Three Bacardi Lime Sodas, and a couple of pints of Stella please.
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Fi...Fifichan?
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Hello! I'm here, and have even made a new post. But it's in web, and it's about macs, so I am predicting approximately no (0) replies.
I am buying a car tonight! I have to walk through Dalston with a huge wedge of cash in my inside pocket. I am taking a spare pair of pants.
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Octavia
I hate Valentine's Day. Stupid commercialised crap
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Did you buy your car, herbs? is it good? Does it go, eh, eh? (nudge nudge, wink wink etc etc repeat to fade).
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