posted
That's a shame, I wanted you to be "CaramelX" so I could ask you to reply to your thread here and tell me what book you were thinking of. Perhaps you can PM "CaramelX" and ask her.
quote:Originally posted by kovacs @ 30-11-2004 00:34 : That's a shame, I wanted you to be "CaramelX" so I could ask you to reply to your thread here and tell me what book you were thinking of. Perhaps you can PM "CaramelX" and ask her.
Reply posted by CaramelX at 30-11-2004 01:12 AM...
That's cool, kovacs can make people post just by willing it.
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quote:Originally posted by kovacs: Yes it took me a while to cotton on that those sub-70s kids-telly handpuppets were meant to be daemons. (As clearly they are.) Having said that, they are slightly better than those in the National Theatre's HDM.
The daemons in that were excellent and extremely effective. You...you philistine.
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posted
Were they CGI? Then they were rubbish. You would prob have liked it if they were tin cans on strings trailing bits of jumblesale fun-fur, Philomel -- then you could have "used your imagination" more. Cuh!
posted
What? The daemons in HDM were marionettes (with actors in black manipulating them, or the characters themselves). Admittedly I was sitting pretty far back and my eyesight (even with contacts) isn't 100%, but they conveyed the character of the individual daemons really well. Sometimes simple things work better.
The daemons in the Cadbury's adverts are shocking.
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posted
The technology behind the "daemons" in the NT's HDM is what's shocking. You could see people walking around carrying them. We have had bluescreen on television for decades, enabling people dressed in coloured bodystockings to be mixed out of an image. That I was sitting in the National Theatre, presumably the best theatre Britain can offer, in 2004, having to "suspend disbelief" and pretend I couldn't see a bunch of stage-hands carrying around constructions of wire and feathers, was aesthetically offensive. Pantalaimon looked like two soft toys once owned by my brother, "White Blanket" and "White Pussy" -- a mangy rag and a shapeless hunk with goggle eyes -- mutated into one sorry creature. I don't pay to go to the theatre and expect to be told to "imagine" that such an Oxfam reject is transforming into a bird, a quirrel, a wolf.
The Cadbury's daemons don't look very convincing but they at least resemble real animals and presumably have some sort of motors controlling their eyes, ears and mouth movements. A bit of money and effort on the part of the National Theatre could have produced creatures of this, more acceptable standard; and from a distance, in the dark, they might have passed muster.
Am I the only one who thought that for £20 I would be entitled to see a stage full of real-life magical animals?
posted
I always saw them as being slightly ethereal (I think this was conveyed well by the wire and cloth arrangement) and 'unreal'. I'll be the first to admit that I was extremely dubious at first, but I honestly forgot the puppeteers were there after the first few minutes. It was quite astonishing quite how much personality they conveyed.
Yes, I go to the theatre to be 'transported into another world', as it were. But it's not the right medium for fancy tricks and too many special effects. The most advanced technology I've seen (lighting excepted) is the revolving, raising stage. And that's how I think it should stay. If I want CGI and ultra-realism (this may nearly be an oxymoron) I'll go to the cinema.
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posted
As soon as I can find TMO Uncovered again so I can upload a few images, I will show you my conception of how the National Theatre's daemons could have looked.
Does anyone have the link. My computer was banjaxed and I lost everything.
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OK now I admit I'm not a professional artist -- merely an amateur dabbler! But I flatter myself that my quickly dashed-off design knocks spots off the travesty of the National Theatre daemons.
I only had twenty-five minutes to work on this, between my paid work (a nice earner this week re-branding a corporate website) but it's my sketch of "Pantalaimon".
Combined with the fairly talented actress who played "Lyra", and a little bit of stage magic -- the results could be absolutely spectacular.
It's easy with a little bit of thought... what a shame none of that went into the National's production.
posted
They look better when animated, but I can't understand why you were so disappointed. How on earth did you think they were going to manage them? I know you've been on about computer wizardry and blue screen and stuff but I can't see how that would have worked. And it wouldn't have fit with the 'raw' feel of the production.
Incidentally, what did you think of the bears?
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posted
I was undecided about whether to go and see this. Now I think not. The daemons were better in my head. Things are always better in my head than in RL.
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posted
Don't start me on those witches -- an unholy cross between TV-am's "Mad Lizzie" aerobics and early-80s Top of the Pops's Pan(talaimon)'s People.
Yeah I'll come to the bears later, and also explain how my vision of the daemons would not just have been possible, but cheaper to implement than the NT's misjudged design. As well as theatrically astounding (see sketch above).
posted
That was just a rough draft, so if you liked that you will be offering me a contract with this revamped version. Again, I knocked it up swiftly between work on a client's website but I think it shows pretty effectively what I would do with His Dark Materials on stage.
1.
A team of animators design the CGI characters in Pullman's magical world. These would include daemons, armored bears and witches. For this example, we'll use our old friend Pantalaimon.
2.
A CGI-whizz makes the pictures into a computer picture.
Here I've imagined Disney/Pixar golden boy Brad Bird working on our familiar Pantalaimon design! A long shot perhaps, but I believe if you want to "be best... you have to dream best." Whatever you can imagine, you can make real. And Brad knows that as well as anybody...check out his The Incredibles for living proof.
3.
The CGI images are projected from backstage -- the place where actors prepare lines, rehearse and put finishing touches to make-up and costume -- through a series of colored lenses that add depth and vivid hues to Brad's computer drawing.
Don't worry too much about the specifics for now... but you'll notice that our old friend Pantalaimon is being "thrown" onto what's called a Lens/Optics at the other end. (We made sure he didn't get hurt.) That circular Lens/Optics is what the audience on stage sees... creating an illusion that Pan is literally "floating" in space.
As you can see, the effect was best described as... simply magical.
posted
Creating the Magic -- behind Kovacs' His Dark Materials Part II
Test screenings of what the animation team were humorously calling "The Pantalaimon Effect" were a resounding success. One of Bird's favorite stories is of how author Phillip Pullman (he's the impressed-looking African-American gentleman, front right) turned to him after the show.
"I was nervous as hell," admits Brad. "Then Pullman leaned close and whispered 'How did you know? How did you see inside my head?'" Brad smiles "That's when I thought...we nailed it."
But Pantalaimon was just one in a host of magical creatures from Pullman's amazing fantasy universe. The technology was in place, but animators had to work around the clock to create the rest of the cast... a cast that included armored bears and witches.
"We were able to re-use certain things we'd learned on the Pantalaimon trials," Brad explains, "recycling certain polygonal elements, tweaking them a little and building them into a new creature." He laughs. "So there's a little of Pantalaimon in Iorek, the Armored Bear! We thought that would be fun for fans to try and spot."
Bear Necessities: Iorek
The greatest challenge was animating the tribe of fearsome witches, led by beautiful Serafina Pekkala. Pullman was adamant that his witches should not look like Hallowe'en freaks, and his prose descriptions stress that these ladies are very far from our normal conceptions of hags on broomsticks.
The task was given to Iranian artist Nafiseh Riyahi, already feted for her sensitive, ethnic drawings. Nafiseh came up with something that blew Brad's socks off. "I knew when I saw the first sketch for Serafina," he confessed. "This was her. This was Serafina as I'd first seen her in my mind's eye."
Beautiful Cruelty: Serafina is queen of the witches ------------------------------- any more questions? ask me later
posted
Just reread what I've written on this thread. Quality posting or what?
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: The technology behind the "daemons" in the NT's HDM is what's shocking. You could see people walking around carrying them.
This sounds pointless. The should have just dressed up in furry costumes like we did in the Cadbury's ad.
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posted
Even I laughed at Kovacs' post, and that takes something as I am generally a miserable git who only laughs at things most people would consider distasteful.
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