posted
Our Chief Executive just came round and spoke to us about the 2 minutes silence at 12pm today and said that if we wanted to go outside on to the streets then we could, and that we should go in our teams "…and all stand together as Londoners". The idea, as you are probably all aware, is to show that we are not afraid of the terrorists.
But I am afraid of the terrorists. I said last week after the bomb attacks that if it turned out to be suicide bombers then I would seriously reconsider living in London. I grew up in the IRA era, I worked in retail for 8 years and we were regularly evacuated from our shops and stations because of bomb alerts. In a way, always living in London with this threat you become rather immune to it, you are aware of it but its not a large part of forming your decisions, a bit like the going out alone after dark thing. But suicide bombers, that’s a whole different kind of terrorism. The idea of going to stand outside to say "We're not afraid" doesn't sit right with me because I am afraid so I'm not going to stand outside, but I will observe the silence.
I spent a lot of time this morning thinking about the attacks and of all the lives affected, aided by Radio 4's Today programme, and that is the decision I've reached.
I am slightly anxious though of the peer pressure element now placed on us in our office, will people just be going out because their colleagues and the rest of their team are going? I just had a classic "water cooler" conversation with a colleague who asked me if I was going to "go out into the streets" and I said no, and gave my reasons and he said "Fair play to you" and then asked someone else if they were going to. They seemed confused at first by what he meant then stuttered a bit over their answer, so my colleague said "Lisa's not going to" to which they replied "Oh" and then walked away.
What are your opinions on this forumites? Are you going to observe the silence, are you going to go outside, has anyone else got the guilt or peer pressure factor going on?
posted
I'd go outside if I had the chance; it looks lovely out at the moment.
I can't relate to the fear thing at all. I was heading into central London last Friday and didn't really think twice about it. The actual increased risk to the individual is just tiny. I'm more scared of getting behind the wheel of a car: there are probably more dangerous/ drunk drivers about than there are suicide bombers. I remember feeling pretty alarmed after September 11th, but that faded very fast. Same about last Thursday. It just seems such a remote possibility, that it doesn't bother me.
I'm not trying to say I'm fearless or anything like that. As I say, I don't like driving: I know far more people who've died or been injured in car accidents than I do terrorist attacks (more than none), and I don't like flying, though I'm more worried by a random technical fault than by a terrorist assault. But the terrorism thing, it's so much of a case of perceived risk rather than actual risk, I just don't find it bothering me or informing my decisions in the slightest. I'm more concerned, say, by a gang of pissed 18 year olds who notice me at 11.30 on a Saturday night than I am about suicide bombers. These things feel like a more genuine, persistent threat than the possibility of being one of 60 people out of a city of 8 million who are unfortunate enough to get caught in a blast once every five years.
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posted
I don't drive, I totally rely on public transport and always have. Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting the buses and tubes and trains, I'm not living in fear, but I am afraid, if you know what I mean. I hate flying but I still fly. But to stand outside and say that I wasn't afraid would be a lie.
posted
I'm determined to remember to observe the silence this time, after I forgot the last one and started talking to someone halfway through it and couldn't understand why they were just nodding back at me and avoiding eye contact.
I hope the c**t outside in the carpark who seems to be here every day valeting cars with the world's noisiest hoover forgets and everyone goes outside and kicks him to death. He's been hoovering for the last hour and a half non-stop. It would be nice to think that he's doing a fantastic job of cleaning the cars, but I think it's just that his hoover doesn't work.
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quote:Originally posted by Uber Trick: I don't drive, I totally rely on public transport and always have. Don't get me wrong, I'm still getting the buses and tubes and trains, I'm not living in fear, but I am afraid, if you know what I mean. I hate flying but I still fly. But to stand outside and say that I wasn't afraid would be a lie.
posted
I totally agree with Thorn. The slim chance of death or injury by terrorism is just one more thing to add to a list of everyday perils in London, or anywhere else for that matter. Cars, crime, train crashes, flying. I know plenty of people who have vowed to use the underground less or not at all following last weeks attacks but, at the moment, I don’t feel the need to change my transport habits or even worry. Perhaps that’s naïve, perhaps I’ll reevaluate my position if suicide bombing becomes a weekly occurrence, but right now I’m feeling pretty indifferent to the new threat.
I’ll observe the period of silence and I’d be happy to go outside to do so. I’m not really sure what the difference is on an individual level.
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posted
I'm at home and have been sitting outside in the garden all morning so far, largely unafraid.
My current dilemma is whether to go and stand out in the street - a probably deserted cul de sac in Hampstead - where I'd probably feel a bit of a tit, or just stay inside and watch it on the news.
I can understand your fear Uber, and I've got a couple of friends who feel the same, but Thorn and Jonesy are right, the chances of actually being killed by terrorists are pretty remote. I'm sure all the old adages apply... you're more likely to die being struck by lightning, run down by a bus, or kicked to death by a donkey...
Right... News24 it is then. Where's my duvet?
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posted
I was outside. It was quite moving in the event. Working on a road full of offices, the streets filling up with workers in the run up til noon, and the busses pulling to the side of the road and the trams grinding to a halt it was easy to believe that this was a genuine show of solidarity, albeit an easy one given that no one really seemed that fearful in the first place.
I felt a bit sorry for the courier that turned up at 12.00 and asked "Are you doing a fire drill or something?" only to be angrily hushed up. Poor fella. Just wanted to deliver his parcel on time.
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posted
I've been so busy today I haven't noticed the time. I believe I was finishing micturating for the first part of the silence, then collecting my post from the pigeon holes. I didn't talk to anyone during either of these actions, if that helps.
Thorn: you only went outside because the pretty girls in your office did.
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H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
Because the wall clocks here all vary and the system clock on our network is a bit out, plus they didn't ring a bell (which I always think that they should for silences) everyone kind of fell uncertainly quiet from about 5 to till about 7 minutes past. apart from my neighbours.
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posted
The silence was a little was a little less moving in Bethnal Green. Our little band trooped out onto the Cambridge Heath Road without knowing the exact time. Little pockets of people could be seen huddled together in the distance, but the space between them meant any genuine show of solidarity was lost. I think we started late. 30 seconds or so into our silence, people started going about their business again, slaloming push chairs between us on the pavement. We looked a bit daft really, statues squinting into the sunlight like a troupe of street performers about to turn in robotic unison and jerk a silvery finger to each of our lips to mime “shhhh”.
posted
I watched on TV - the shifting scenes of people standing silently outside King's cross, all the commuters standing still and facing the same way (to Mecca?) at Liverpool street, the crowds at Trafalgar Square, in a faceless "City" office, in a primary school playground, on Oxford Street, outside a Mosque in Nottingham bearing the banner "Not in our name"... it all left me feeling a bit uncomfortable. Like watching "The Office".
Am I the only one here who finds such public displays of emotion and/or solidarity a bit self-indulgent and tacky (for want of a better word)?
I do feel bad for the people killed, their families, the injured, and those in any way effected by the bombs. But I don't feel the need to take flowers to the shrine at King's Cross, wear a coloured wristband, or publicly mark a silence.
Am I lacking in blitz-spirit? Did Diana's death actually make anyone here cry? Did Margaret Thatcher do too good a job of turning me into a sociopath?
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posted
I've just had a quick peek at the bastardometer and it's ok, it rates quite low on geigocunt. It's natural to feel a little despondent sometimes. We are often encouraged in movies top feel sad for someone and there's an extreme close-up and an orchestra of violinists alone trying to squeek one tear from your eyes. When you watch something in contrast on the news, it looks a bit wooden and isolated. Almost forced. It's true you may just be a cold cynical husk though.
quote:Originally posted by fish: Am I the only one here who finds such public displays of emotion and/or solidarity a bit self-indulgent and tacky (for want of a better word)?
I do feel bad for the people killed, their families, the injured, and those in any way effected by the bombs. But I don't feel the need to take flowers to the shrine at King's Cross, wear a coloured wristband, or publicly mark a silence.
Am I lacking in blitz-spirit? Did Diana's death actually make anyone here cry? Did Margaret Thatcher do too good a job of turning me into a sociopath?
I'm a bit concerned that I've turned into a heartless bastard.
I don't think a two minute silence of this nature is in anyway comparable to Diana. For one thing, the incident targeted people randomly; the same sort of people that were giving the silence. You'd never watch the Diana coverage and think "Fuck... that could have been me, or my girlfriend.... if we were the most famous woman in the world".
So the standing outside offices thing achieves a greater meaning than remembering some woman you've never met: it's not just about remembering those that died, it's about showing that people aren't afraid and consequently that the bombers have failed in their goals.
Similarly, a two minute silence on 11th November remembers not just the dead, but represents a gratitude for a sacrifice and an achievement. I think it is a bit cynical to say 'Ech, it just makes me uncomfortable', because events directed at, performed on behalf of a country should surely be recognised on a countrywide level. I think these things warrant something more than just "thinking about it in your own way, in your own time", which most people probably won't do anyway.
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posted
I don’t have any problem with a two-minute silence. I think it's a useful demonstration of compassion to those that have suffered/are suffering and a reasonable show of defiance towards those planning to cause more of the same.
I’m totally for people rallying around and showing solidarity, but, having said that, I’m feeling increasingly uncomfortable with some people’s desire to, what I can only describe as, “be involved.”
It’s probably a media creation but I’m finding odd comments like
“The 8:17 from Luton will never be the same for us again.”
“Leeds will never feel the same again.”
“They ate a Cornish pasty here on the way to London. The Wild Bean Café at the services off Junction 10 of the M1 will never be the same again.”
Certainly people want to empathise with those who really suffered, those whose lives really won’t ever be the same again but this is stretching things a bit too far. Or am I too being a heartless bastard too?
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quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: I don't think a two minute silence of this nature is in anyway comparable to Diana. For one thing, the incident targeted people randomly; the same sort of people that were giving the silence. You'd never watch the Diana coverage and think "Fuck... that could have been me, or my girlfriend.... if we were the most famous woman in the world".
But seeing as she was the people's princess and she died in a random car accident, it's far more likely to be personally resonant to most people. Many of us will quite probably die in a car crash.
quote: So the standing outside offices thing achieves a greater meaning than remembering some woman you've never met: it's not just about remembering those that died, it's about showing that people aren't afraid and consequently that the bombers have failed in their goals.
Showing who though? Showing the bombers? Do you think that those who are still alive and probably planning more attacks will now desist their semtex making and say "You know what guys? Let's not bother." I think it's more to do with showing each other that we are not effected by the bombers. That we're stronger than that. We're resilient. It wont change us. It's like one big collective group hug. But surely the best way to show that we're not effected by last week's bombs is to carry on as normal as if they had never happened. If the aim of the bombers is to cause terror and to make a political/cultural statement we are helping them do just that.
If a child stamps its foot and screams when it wants something/attention and you give in to it, he will be encouraged to have future tantrums knowing that it will provoke a response. Isn't the best thing to do to ignore the tantrum so that he learns that it is pointless?
quote: Similarly, a two minute silence on 11th November remembers not just the dead, but represents a gratitude for a sacrifice and an achievement. I think it is a bit cynical to say 'Ech, it just makes me uncomfortable', because events directed at, performed on behalf of a country should surely be recognised on a countrywide level. I think these things warrant something more than just "thinking about it in your own way, in your own time", which most people probably won't do anyway.
But the cultural significance of 11th November is being dramatically eroded by just such displays of national mourning. I don't remember a single football match last season that wasn't started with a minute's silence or played wearing black arm bands because a former manager/player had died, a fan got runover on the way to the ground.
We, quite rightly, have silence for November 11th. We have silence for Sept 11th in which thousands of people died. We now have silence for July 7th in which less than 100 people died. Where do you draw the line? And at what point does the act of remembrance become so devalued as to become entirely meaningless?
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quote:Originally posted by jonesy999: I’m totally for people rallying around and showing solidarity, but, having said that, I’m feeling increasingly uncomfortable with some people’s desire to, what I can only describe as, “be involved.”
To hark back to Dang's justification (sorry Dang) for watching the Ken Bigley decapitation video because he felt the need to "bear witness". I think the idea of people pouring out onto the streets to have a collective moment is running dangerously close to being along the same lines. It feeds this desire to "be involved". To be honest, I just think it's fucking morbid.
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quote:Originally posted by jonesy999: Will the silence for 7/7 be an annual event?
Can you imagine Redken's rage if it's not? In the next six months, expect the spare plinth in Trafalgar Square to be adorned with the statue of the fallen commuter. I imagine the Daily Mail will lead the campaign within weeks.
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posted
Due to an "incident" here at Schiphol, the trains were not running so I caught the bus into work. At 13:00 prompt the driver pulled over and cut the engine - a few hushed whispers as the realisation of the supposedly unscheduled stop and a general silence falls upon the bus. Then the yank tourist next to me decides to ask the driver as to how long it will take to get to the airport as he has a plane to catch. Wanker.
Thouroughly impressed by the Connexion show of support, but once again suitably disgusted by some peoples ignorance to what happened last week.
H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
quote:Originally posted by fish: We, quite rightly, have silence for November 11th. We have silence for Sept 11th in which thousands of people died. We now have silence for July 7th in which less than 100 people died. Where do you draw the line? And at what point does the act of remembrance become so devalued as to become entirely meaningless?
It used to be a minute's silence as standard. Now it's two. In a few years' time we'll be perpetually mute.
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posted
I suppose the extension to two minutes is to increase the chances of slack fucks like jonesy joining in with everyone else for at least a few seconds.
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quote:Originally posted by fish: To hark back to Dang's justification (sorry Dang) for watching the Ken Bigley decapitation video because he felt the need to "bear witness".
posted
Christ Dang! (Sorry Dang) How can you forget something like that? The image should have been branded onto your brain like the picture Kovacs posted of his cock on Seethru. Or the one VP posted here, the one where she was naked with a puppy sticking out of her arse.
posted
I dunno. People like us were blown up last week. I think a minutes silence, 2 minutes silence, what the fuck ever is fair enough. Next to St Pauls it was pretty moving. Bell ringing. Streets packed outside every office. Traffic at a standstill.
It didn't feel morbid or like some massive outporing of grief. It felt like a group of people recognising that people just like them had been blown to shit last week and that remembering those who did have the misfortune to get caught up in it and saying fuck off to those who did it seemed like a fair response.
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quote:Originally posted by jonesy999: Christ Dang! (Sorry Dang) how can you forget something like that? The image should have been branded onto your brain like the picture Kovacs posted of his cock on Seethru.
Well, that's what I mean. I never did watch the video of Ken Bigley being beheaded, which is why I doubt I'd have posted any justification for watching it. But I'm wondering who did. It's not that damo666 trouble maker again is it?
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posted
Hmmm. Sorry for casting aspersions your way Dang, my memory is obviously playing tricks on me. I wonder who it was then...where's memorybanks Thorn when you need him? Not that it's important who said it, it's more the particular phrase that stuck in my mind and the idea behind it.
Squirrelandgun, fair enough. If you felt the need to go outside and do the silence thing that's fine. I almost went out onto the street myself, if I had I probably wouldn't have been saying the above. I didn't, I watched it on TV, and it made me feel uncomfortable and got me thinking about why it made me feel uncomfortable, that's all. I guess, with hindsight, I'm just missing the point of it.
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posted
Aha! The culprit found! Sorry Dang, I don't know why my memory jumbled you up with Stevie.
Where is Mr X anyway? And Stephanos? Infact, where are 90% of the people that used to post here? Where's Victoria? Who are these new people? Where are my slippers?
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