posted
I'll try to post a more detailed response later on, but I just wanted to say now that this part:
quote:I wonder - was there an MSN conversation one night way back, where Kovacs spilled his innermost perverted desires? Was it something that he later regretted sharing? was it an online 'experiment' that took a wrong turn and went badly wrong?
posted
Yeah, my squeamishness threshold is pretty high...That is a big fucking snake though! I wonder if they will have exploding aligator snakes in Snakes on a Plane.
Posts: 2793
| IP: Logged
posted
There wouldn't be much point. Modge took the time to set you straight on a range of specifics and you just responded with any number of variations on "but Jones must have had a reason for X, Y or Z" and "but that doesn't explain why Jones did A, B and C" - all of which mistakenly assumes that Jones is/was anything other than a creep whose supreme delight is/was manipulating people and playing them off against one another.
As noted above, Kovacs has always taken the trouble to defend your role on the boards - something which, fwiw, he's also done when I've spoken to him in person. It's, at the very least, a little ingracious for you to try and put him 'in the dock' on the word of someone as manipulative, dishonest and fundamentally cowardly as Infinite Jones.
Posts: 8657
| IP: Logged
posted
No. Infinite Jones was one of the first generation of posters on Seethru. Rillion was a pal of Kovacs who was disastrously introduced to the board a couple of years later, after Darryn set up tmo talk.
Posts: 8657
| IP: Logged
posted
You people all take the internet far too seriously.
-------------------- What I object to is the colour of some of these wheelie bins and where they are left, in some areas outside all week in the front garden. Posts: 4941
| IP: Logged
posted
I’m not going to give a lot of time to this because much of the previous reply was verging on the ludicrous, but I shall further clarify these points:
There were no “accusations” as such on hb that kovacs could “confirm or deny”. I believe that there was a general complaint about him posting under a new name, and nobody realising it was him for a long time, something that he made no attempt to deny, and actually explained on that board his reasons behind when asked. There was no issue either about him being “personal” with posters, I think that his real life friendship with Rillion/Artery was actually the crux of the matter, and it led to a General Chat bandwagon of epic proportions.
You keep mentioning one sentence that kovacs posted, that he was well-criticised for at the time and which has since been discussed in some depth. You are only making yourself look ridiculous by using phrases like “wittering on”, “publicly expressing a desire” and “engaging in cunnilingus with minors” (see you managed to mention it on three separate occasions in that post alone) because they are simply not accurate in the slightest. Revisionism obviously comes naturally to you, because you are talking about something entirely out of context to suit your own ends.
You have got your timelines mixed up because nobody had even made a joke about Hermione Granger in Jones’ time, so there is no possibility of Jones making threats on the basis of kovacs supposed (and utterly untrue and offensive) perversions. Furthermore, kovacs and Jones did not interact very much (if at all) off the boards so your feverishly imagined drunk msn conversations are nothing but fiction, although that was evident from your projected content.
Jones’ “threat”, such as it was, was that because he worked in a similar academic field to kovacs, he would be able to negatively affect kovacs’ work in terms of peer-reviewed articles and so on. kovacs had forgotten all about this until I reminded him yesterday, so it was obviously not that much of a big deal, but I hope this clears up your “mystery”.
Posts: 1268
| IP: Logged
posted
I don't know why I can't help but feel some sort of bewildered sympathy, almost bordering on affection, for Rick -- no matter what he posts.
To debate with him at this stage in his psychosis would be like trying to argue with David Icke -- what's the point in trying to persuade someone you're not a paedo, especially when he already believes Nazi gas chambers were a myth invented by a Jewish cabal? -- but maybe because of old times' sake, maybe some tendency in me to root for the underdog, I just can't be annoyed with the feller!
That's not to say I don't very much enjoy seeing other people having their effortless sport with him.
quote:Originally posted by ben: There wouldn't be much point. Modge took the time to set you straight on a range of specifics and you just responded with any number of variations on "but Jones must have had a reason for X, Y or Z" and "but that doesn't explain why Jones did A, B and C" - all of which mistakenly assumes that Jones is/was anything other than a creep whose supreme delight is/was manipulating people and playing them off against one another.
I think it all comes down to how I saw things at the time. As I have said a number of times I was never one of Jones' biggest fans on here - my initial feeling to towards him was one of general distrust. However it was his revealing to me, in his usual slow-drip way, that certain posters had betrayed confidences that set me on the road to Damascus (or Hell, dependent on your interpretation of events). How he had got to know these things immediately put me on the back foot and left me wondering how much had been told to how many.
We are constantly being told how much of a 'creep' Jones was/is, but have seen little in the way of actual evidence save the opinions of a small collection of pre-2001 regulars. The 'I have shit on you' comment has become the stuff of legend on here, but no-one really seems to know what this 'shit' actually constituted. OK, maybe Jones was a manipulative charlatan who eked out information in slivers during loose-tongued MSN chats with the sole purpose of dishing out the dirt at a later date - this was the major concern to me at the time however; what he might have gleaned about others was not my concern. I was more peturbed at the fact that others in whom I had invested more than a degree of confidence could be so loose tongued.
It also seems curious that everyone turned on him at once - did he, one day, decide to launch his nefarious project, unbeknownst to all bar his victims? Or was it a case of his hounding a particular indivudual (or group of individuals) who then colluded together to drum him out of town? From my subsequent conversations with him, it was clear that he probably had plenty of 'shit' on me as well - and yet there was never any threat of revealing anything to anybody. Further revelations, such Kovacs' 'experimenting' with the forum and London's working for SeeThru - long before they became common knowledge - pretty much cememted my belief that he was telling the truth.
It's all a matter of putting yourself in my position at the time Ben. If you can do this, you could perhaps half-way understand why I turned on Kovacs in the way I did.
quote:As noted above, Kovacs has always taken the trouble to defend your role on the boards - something which, fwiw, he's also done when I've spoken to him in person. It's, at the very least, a little ingracious for you to try and put him 'in the dock' on the word of someone as manipulative, dishonest and fundamentally cowardly as Infinite Jones.
I know, and yes - part of me does feel bad. I have never wavered in my view that Kovacs is a valuable contributor to the boards - perhaps more than most - but it doesn't change the fact that any trust I had in him has been frittered away by the course of events. Jones, of course, only plays a part in this.
-------------------- "You ate the baby Jesus and his mother Mary!" "I thought they were animal cookies..." Posts: 4130
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Modge: There were no “accusations” as such on hb that kovacs could “confirm or deny”. I believe that there was a general complaint about him posting under a new name, and nobody realising it was him for a long time, something that he made no attempt to deny, and actually explained on that board his reasons behind when asked. There was no issue either about him being “personal” with posters, I think that his real life friendship with Rillion/Artery was actually the crux of the matter, and it led to a General Chat bandwagon of epic proportions.
I have no desire to go digging around old posts, but there was more to this story than the above. I agree that the Rillion/Artery thing didn't help matters that much, but this has nothing to do with Kovacs many other indiscretions.
quote:You keep mentioning one sentence that kovacs posted, that he was well-criticised for at the time and which has since been discussed in some depth. You are only making yourself look ridiculous by using phrases like “wittering on”, “publicly expressing a desire” and “engaging in cunnilingus with minors” (see you managed to mention it on three separate occasions in that post alone) because they are simply not accurate in the slightest. Revisionism obviously comes naturally to you, because you are talking about something entirely out of context to suit your own ends.
How could a statement that was so blindigly unambiguous be taken out of context? He talked about the aesthetics of the young female body. While this in itself can be accepted as a simple observation, to take it to the extent that he did says something else entirely. Taken with all of his other statements on the subject, I think any intelligent person would have been slightly peturbed. Steelgate was banned for making similar comments; the only difference was that he lacked intellectual clout.
quote:You have got your timelines mixed up because nobody had even made a joke about Hermione Granger in Jones’ time, so there is no possibility of Jones making threats on the basis of kovacs supposed (and utterly untrue and offensive) perversions.
I am not suggesting Kovacs made the Hermione Granger joke during the Jones era, and never have. Jones actually alluded to the professor's bizarre leanings some time before he made them. So, it was the simple matter of the content of Kovacs' posts confirming what Jones had told me.
quote:Furthermore, kovacs and Jones did not interact very much (if at all) off the boards so your feverishly imagined drunk msn conversations are nothing but fiction, although that was evident from your projected content.
If there was so little interaction, how did Jones manage to gather so much 'shit' as to elicit such a response? There must have been some shared information somewhere, feverishly imagined drunk MSN conversations notwithstanding.
quote:Jones’ “threat”, such as it was, was that because he worked in a similar academic field to kovacs, he would be able to negatively affect kovacs’ work in terms of peer-reviewed articles and so on. kovacs had forgotten all about this until I reminded him yesterday, so it was obviously not that much of a big deal, but I hope this clears up your “mystery”.
posted
You know, if I ever do something wrong and get hauled up in court, I hope they put an amateur conspiracy nut who worked out that the Jews suffered nothing worse than "harsh conditions" during WW2 on the prosecution.
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: You know, if I ever do something wrong and get hauled up in court, I hope they put an amateur conspiracy nut who worked out that the Jews suffered nothing worse than "harsh conditions" during WW2 on the prosecution.
It has nothing to do with conspiracies, m8. Furthermore, I have never limited it down to "harsh conditions"; I just have an issue with the gas chamber story.
Anyway, that's all been done to death on here.
-------------------- "You ate the baby Jesus and his mother Mary!" "I thought they were animal cookies..." Posts: 4130
| IP: Logged
H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
"done to death" how apt.
-------------------- i'm expressing my inner anguish through the majesty of song Posts: 4243
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by ally: I did, but no-one noticed.
I did, however, stumble upon one of your posts where you mention both Kovacs (for aforementioned 'licking' comment) and myself (for questioning historical events that have been carved into the collective psyche) in the same sentence.
Was this around the time you left?
-------------------- "You ate the baby Jesus and his mother Mary!" "I thought they were animal cookies..." Posts: 4130
| IP: Logged
I'm remarkably chipper, thanks. I've got a new iBook, which is my pride and joy. Stuff's so much faster on it than it was on my old mac, so I'm more inspired to use the internet for recreational purposes than I have been for a while.
I have kind of voided my own point by posting, too, you're right. Please excuse my logical incoherence.
Posts: 362
| IP: Logged
posted
Yeah, I think Ally called us both repulsive untouchables, Rick. That didn't stop her from mailing, phoning and meeting me when she wanted some academic assistance, though, so maybe you two can be pals.
I don't know what amuses me more -- how much you'd hate being reviled alongside the guy you're trying to put in the dock, how rapidly Ally came back here after flouncing from her last board at ten to seven this evening, or how much time she spends online despite boasting about being busy with her PhD in every other post.
quote:Originally posted by kovacs: Yeah, I think Ally called us both repulsive untouchables, Rick. That didn't stop her from mailing, phoning and meeting me when she wanted some academic assistance, though, so maybe you two can be pals.
I don't know what amuses me more -- how much you'd hate being reviled alongside the guy you're trying to put in the dock, how rapidly Ally came back here after flouncing from her last board at ten to seven this evening, or how much time she spends online despite boasting about being busy with her PhD in every other post.
God the internet is good sport sometimes.
Oh, kovacs, you're only sulking because it took you six months to work out the connection between my two online names. And don't pretend otherwise - I've got emails, remember.
Anyway, I actually said that I found your comments on licking a child's genitalia, and snorton's beliefs on the holocaust, repellent. Which they are.
Posts: 362
| IP: Logged
Topic Closed
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic