I was just watching the Obamas meeting your queen on the telly while I was waiting for the lift. Why this is newsworthy I cannot say. What's so special about the queen? What has she ever done? Anything??? As an American, I just don't get it...
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Me either, but from what I can work out it's a relatively minor cost to the country and it brings in lots of tourists. It's basically a tourist attraction.
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Yeah it brings in swarms of retarded Americans who come to gawp at queeny.
And let's not forget, if it wasn't for the Royal Family, we wouldn't have had Princess Di. Daily Mail headline writers would have had a much harder time over the past decade and a bit.
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I was just watching the Obamas meeting your queen on the telly while I was waiting for the lift. Why this is newsworthy I cannot say. What's so special about the queen? What has she ever done? Anything??? As an American, I just don't get it...
I thought the Americans loved the Queen? I thought that that was the whole point? It's the thing that always comes up when people call for the monarchy to be abolished. It's always "yeah she's useless, but she's good for the tourists - those fucking American imbeciles trek over here to gawp at the kinds of history and tradition they never had". It has to be said, if anything can drag these ignorant, apathetic puddles of lard out of their homeland it must have some value. Presumably the Queen is pretty much the only non-American on the planet that Americans have heard of. You have to give her credit for that.
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The gifts exchanged did amuse me - Queeny gives a photo of herself and Phillip (she should have just given him a stamp) and she gets an ipod in return! I just imagined images like these:
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Obama's not got the hang of this state gift giving has he? Gordon Brown gave him a pen holder fashioned from the wood of one of the British fleet's anti-slaving fleet, and got a DVD box set in return.
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Anyway Ralph it's pointless discussing it because we can't do anything about it. The majority of people are apathetic about the whole thing and i guess it will eventually die out quietly of it's own accord over a fairly long period of time.
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Yeah, it requires such a constitutional upheaval to get rid of, that it will happen very very slowly and gradually, if at all, rather than through revolution.
And apparently there's an unspoken agreement not to discuss any constutional change at all while Liz is still alive, according to a Radio 4 programe yesterday about primogeniture and the disestablishment of the Church and all that.
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That's because as an American you're unable to comprehend anything that exists outside your tiny bubble such as culture. Well, I don't personally have any pride in the monarchy, but it's such a redundant question I wonder why you bothered asking in the first place. Why the land of the free? Why the hatred of communism? Why the right to bare arms? Why the saluting of a flag? Why anything really? Because there is a sense of nationalism and pride attached to serving someone from a long line of people who for most of our history ruled us. Decided what to do. Why would a fellow american leap in front of the president? Because he's a figurehead of lol, American democracy. Would you let a gaggle of strangers burn your American flag on your lawn and jump up and down on it? No? Then the English probably don't want anyone to kill our queen either. But mostly, mostly the reason is because you're a massive troll.
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i don't think anybody would really care if the royal family went away. I suppose a lot of that kind of thing is to do with tradition, and most cultures and societies tend to uphold some traditions don't they? They help to maintain a sense of continuation from the past into the present, and this probably legitimises many present day institutions and practises as a result. It's strange to see how you can't understand this, ralph. A basic understanding of society would enable somebody to see why a tradition like the monarchy might be upheld. Especially considering the pretty chequered history of the land in terms of ruling and power ownership.
There are also some political reasons, I believe. Technically the queen is there as a kind of safeguard, because she is supposedly apolitical. In the event of a breakdown of the political system, the idea is that there is still a power base, to prevent the land from descending into anarchy. I think I'm remembering that correctly. While her powers are ceremonial as long as everything is ticking over, there is potential there for the monarchy to step in. In some ways, I can understand the benefit of having a politically neutral head of state. The Lord system we have here of an unelected second chamber is also supposed to provide political neutrality within the governing process.
As mart pointed out, she's also the head of the state church - The Church of England. I don't know what that does these days. I sometimes went to Church of England schools. Does that still go on? Kind of weird to think that in schools they were making all the kids sing songs about Jesus even if, like me, they weren't Christian.
In practise however, the queen, the monarchy and the lords are all fairly ineffective, obviously undemocratic and really just there to maintain the ailing power systems of a previously landowning class that is increasingly irrelevant.
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: That's because as an American you're unable to comprehend anything that exists outside your tiny bubble such as culture. Well, I don't personally have any pride in the monarchy, but it's such a redundant question I wonder why you bothered asking in the first place. Why the land of the free? Why the hatred of communism? Why the right to bare arms? Why the saluting of a flag? Why anything really? Because there is a sense of nationalism and pride attached to serving someone from a long line of people who for most of our history ruled us. Decided what to do. Why would a fellow american leap in front of the president? Because he's a figurehead of lol, American democracy. Would you let a gaggle of strangers burn your American flag on your lawn and jump up and down on it? No? Then the English probably don't want anyone to kill our queen either. But mostly, mostly the reason is because you're a massive troll.
To answer your many questions... Land of the free? Who says that? Sure, it's in some song, but we're slaves just like the rest of you.
I don't hate Communism.
I'm against the right to bare arms.
I haven't saluted the flag (or anything else for that matter) since I was in grade school. And because they made me.
Yes. I would let a gaggle of strangers burn an American flag on my lawn. Hell, I'd provide the matches. And possibly urinate on it to put it out when it was sufficiently burned.
Being a massive troll has nothing to do with it. Not having royals of our own here in the US of A, I was curious how those who do felt about them. Christ.
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quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: I suppose a lot of that kind of thing is to do with tradition, and most cultures and societies tend to uphold some traditions don't they? They help to maintain a sense of continuation from the past into the present, and this probably legitimises many present day institutions and practises as a result. It's strange to see how you can't understand this, ralph.
I'm not one to blindly follow tradition for traditions sake. And the royals seem like a pointless tradition to me.
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but, as I've just tried to explain, the point of a tradition isn't in the practical benefits of whatever the tradition may be, but the psychological impact of how a tradition represents the relationship between past and present, which seems to be something that all human societies require. It also helps to add legitimacy to the aspects of society that help form individual and cultural identities.
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quote:Originally posted by ralph: I don't hate Communism.
I'm against the right to bare arms.
I haven't saluted the flag (or anything else for that matter) since I was in grade school. And because they made me.
Yes. I would let a gaggle of strangers burn an American flag on my lawn. Hell, I'd provide the matches. And possibly urinate on it to put it out when it was sufficiently burned.
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There is some mileage to the old saying that, regarding a head of state, it is far, far better to have someone who feels obliged to do the job, than someone who really, desperately wants to do it.
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quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Well, I don't personally have any pride in the monarchy
So many people say this, and I'm guessing that's at least partly to do with our genetically programmed fear of taking pride in anything at all in this country. The BBC, the armed forces, the monarchy, the countryside, the empire, the language... you just sound like a Daily Mail reader if you show even a glimmer of appreciation for any of these things.
There is one thing which should be massively useful about the queen, and that is that she has been a first hand behind-the-scenes witness to pretty much everything that's happened to this country since the fucking Blitz.
I mean, look:
That's actually ancient history, but there she is, in the middle of it, and she's still in the middle of it now. For politicians to have direct access to that sort of experience should be of massive benefit to the country.
Ralph mentions seeing her meeting Obama, but that same woman in that same job has been meeting US Presidents since Truman and Eisenhower, ten Presidents and six decades ago. And thirteen Prime Ministers.
Whether it's a privileged position or not, it's pretty remarkable for one person to continue like that just because she happens to have been born to it. It's a shame she doesn't get to be interviewed or speak freely. This could be one of the most fascinating people alive, but she has to keep her trap shut.
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quote:Originally posted by ralph: Being a massive troll has nothing to do with it. Not having royals of our own here in the US of A, I was curious how those who do felt about them. Christ.
quote:Originally posted by dang65: just because she happens to have been born to it
Also worth remembering that when she was born she was third in line, behind her uncle and her dad, and no one would have thought she would ever end up as monarch.
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quote:Originally posted by Kanye West: calm down dang, christ on a bike. Wake up to the twenty first century already.
Yeah, we ought to try something new really. Then the week after that we could try something else, and in a couple of months we could upgrade to the new version, and then sell it on eBay a fortnight later and get a brand new one on credit with nothing to pay till 2015.
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quote:Originally posted by mart: Also worth remembering that when she was born she was third in line, behind her uncle and her dad, and no one would have thought she would ever end up as monarch.
Christ, mart, you can't accuse the Queen of murdering her way to the throne. Jesus God, what's gotten into you?
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when christina and I visited mart in spain, he showed us a collection of scrapbooks he'd made by putting the queens head over the top of photos of people engaged in sexual acts. We were all pretty drunk, and I thought it was funny and arty at the time, but it really played on my mind for a few weeks afterwards.
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