2.Name 3 things you dislike about being your own gender
3.Name 3 things you think you would like about being the opposite gender
4.Name 3 things you think you would dislike about being the opposite gender
Simple!
Points For
Female
I like having the choice of clothing, hairstyles, make-up etc that I think I have as a woman.
I like the fact that I have the potential to become a mother/give birth
I enjoy the relationships I have with other women, and the fact that I can communicate in ways and about subjects that I feel I couldn't if I were a man.
I dislike the fact that I am conditioned into not feeling safe if I am out alone, especially at night.
I dislike the fact that I could still be paid less than a male colleague for doing the same job.
I dislike the way that I think I will be treated as a middle-aged and older woman.
Male
I think I would like being physically stronger/having different physical abilities if I were a man.
I think I would feel more at ease socially - being able to go into a pub alone, for example, without feeling incredibly out of place.
I can't think of a third thing right now...
I would dislike the lack (I think, compared to women) of communication I would have in my friendships.
I would dislike the fact that I could go bald as I got older.
I would dislike the fact that I think people ("society") has low expectations of men, particularly of young men, in terms of behaviour, hygiene, manners, crime etc.
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Modge ]
quote:
Originally posted by Modge:
4.Name 3 things you think you would dislike about being the opposite gender
it woldbe..., the chilldes!
scarke game
i donont like to be COLDE!
edit -- smike ubb
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: kovacs ]
quote:
Originally posted by Modge:
I dislike the fact that I could still be paid less than a male colleague for doing the same job.
Hey, it's not our fault, it's yours...
EDIT:
Wrong link...
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: sabian ]
quote:
Originally posted by sabian:
Hey, it's not our fault, it's yours...
I will answer properly tomorrow. For now, I'll just make it look like Modge's thread is "successful" in post count terms.
edit -- my ubb is wanksta
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: kovacs ]
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
I will answer properly tomorrow. For now, I'll just make it look like Modge's thread is "successful" in post count terms.
This is what I like about being a man. I don't know any women who would be fastidious enough to compile a mix tape especially to settle a music argument. I also like that I was able to look under 'n for neworder' in my cd/lp collections to find the records. I am delirious with joy that when I open the cd case, I find in there the correct cdalbum not madonna gh2 or something.
I think that's three things I like about male. I will think about the other parts of the question.
likes
Being able to succesfully interact with technology esp. in relation to rigging up stereos and home cinema, and being able to tell the difference between a decent separates system and a 15 year old ghetto blaster with 5 watt speakers.
Watching and understanding films at a basic plot level, without having to ask "who was that?" "Who are they?" or afterwards saying "I don't remember that" with regard to a vital plot point that took up 40 minutes of screentime.
A genuine love and affection for hairy men playing instruments loud. I appreciate that more and more women are into metal these days but a) metal's getting 'softer', and b) I doubt that they relate to it as passionately as a man could.
dislike
The feeling of guilt that comes with being a man, that somehow all the wrongness of the world is a factor of your condition. I'm not sure whether this is drummed into me by the likes of Germaine Greer, or me tapping into the collective unconscious
Being a slave to women. Becoming a gurgling sycophantic spastic even when there is no chance of any kind of sexual congress or partnership of any kind, yet still turning into a drooling eager-to-please puppy.
A subtle yet tangible weight of expectation, as though I will be expected to provide for my family should my partner choose it to be so.
Female
would likes
The power - the flip side of the enslavement thing.
The clothes. There's very few items of mens clothing that can produce the jaw dropping impact of even the simplest items of female clothing, such as a vest top or a pair of hipsters. When you ramp up the artillery, with knee length boots and skirts, the effect can be devastating.
The emotional engagement. One of VP's friends is the ultimate embodiment of the feminine trait of being able to empathise with almost anyone in any situation. She is gripped by adverts, and any minidrama unfolding in front of her. While I acknowledge that this is an extreme example, even the most stone-hearted of females (Vogon Poetess) can shed a tear at the movies (she cried at the end of Leon).
Would Dislike
The staring. Man that would piss me off (of course I realise that I'm writing this from the perspective of being an attractive female, but you'll have to forgive me as those are the only ones I actually perceive, anyway).
The culture. It's like, 90% of the films in my DVD collection are primarily about men. I'd wanna watch films about me. And not Winona Ryder sewing a quilt, either. You'd have to look so much harder for decent cinema that reflected your fantasies and insecurities and even then I bet most of it would be shit.
The social life. God, I'd hate to have to go through the motions of a 'girls night out'. Everytime I hear a description of them, they sound like a tedious exercise in letchery, flirtation, squawking laughter and unfunny jokes, all geared towards some kind of phony empowerment in a kind of "Look! We can have fun like the boys!" as they attempt to define themselves as 'modern women'.
Being physically taller and stronger than all women I come across in everyday life -- that is, than half the people I ever deal with socially. I sometimes look at women and think, these people are like a different breed to me, like hobbits or something; they're all so little and I can always see the tops of their heads. This makes me feel a certain degree of power and affection. Social contentment shouldn't come down to whether, ultimately, you could have physical power over someone -- and even mine doesn't come down to that, but on a primitive level, it does play a part. Like whoever it was who posted that they'd realised they were a "Big Guy", with a superhuman ability of being physically tough-looking. I'm sure people like LowLevel and Physic also get a certan reassurance and even pleasure from the fact that they could "have" most people they meet, and that those people, on a deep level, know it.
2.Name 3 things you dislike about being your own gender
Sartorial conservatism. Now, it may be countered that I seem sartorially conservative anyway -- 90% of my wardrobe is in the same narrow band of the spectrum, from "slate" to "soot" -- but as a similar type of woman I would still have a great deal more potential for expressing subtle variation. Being socially allowed to come into work with your eyes looking markedly different from yesterday, or an inch taller, or having a skirt length that says something, is a semiotic language that I am excluded from as a man. And those were obviously just very minor examples of the vocabulary women have access to through hair, dress and make-up. I think this potential for hugely varied disguise and expression is one of women's most important and enjoyable advantages in contemporary Western society. Oh yes, girls can say "but men wear skirts," but frankly, this is patronising ballz.
3.Name 3 things you think you would like about being the opposite gender
I just covered the most important one.
4.Name 3 things you think you would dislike about being the opposite gender
And as above -- the feeling that whatever my social status, my achievements, my money, my intelligence, as a woman I am still likely to be physically weaker than almost every man I meet, and am vulnerable on that fundamental level.
You only did one for each category, Kovacs.
I did, I did...but you know, one can always come back to something and make the thread last.
would any women on here do so.
I shan't be offended if you say no, but I would be interested.
2.Name 3 things you dislike about being your own gender
1) walking the streets at night, seeing lone females and having to walk faster to get in front. or cross over. because you're concerned for their mental state.
2) random acts of senseless violence for little more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
3) the y chromosome. if i've got a defective sex-linked gene. i get the trait cf colourblindness.
3.Name 3 things you think you would like about being the opposite gender
1) multiple organisms
2) being able to say "i like justin timberlake" without having to say "the production is amazing" quickly after it.
3) having better handwriting.
4.Name 3 things you think you would dislike about being the opposite gender
1) cavemen
2) babies/pregnancy stopping career.
3) periods
Girly Things. It’s ok for Dirty Dancing to be your favourite film. You can buy poetry with impunity. You can wear all colours, especially pink.
Other girls. Proper long phone chats. Birthdays remembered. Girls’ Nights Out; not the shrieking horror of Hen Nights, but girls having fun without boys. Shopping.
I can’t think of anything else.
Bad to be a girl
Menstruation. The fact that your body essentially betrays you for 25% of your adult life. Expense, inconvenience and general shiteness. Linked to this is the fact that being a girl means you must automatically like babies, and if you don’t want to have them, hold them or hear about their teething problems means you are abnormal and to be pitied.
Other girls. The evil that is the diet industry is perpetuated by women competing with other women. Celebrity magazines that are bought by women to sneer at the fashion disasters and cellulite of other women. Psychological bullying.
Extremes. If I don’t fancy you I must be a lezzer. I’m either a slag or frigid. If I have a career I’m selfish and greedy and a bad mother. If I stay at home I’m boring and repressed. The whole Miss/Mrs thing
Good and bad to be a boy
You can piss standing up. Large amounts of casual sex make you a better person. Having a deeper voice instantly makes you sound more authoritative.
The waiter automatically assumes you are paying. If you hold the door open you’re an old fashioned chauvinist; if you don’t hold it open you’re rude. Shite such as Loaded and FHM is aimed at you.
I would be interested to see what it was like to be a bloke for a week. If we swapped though kovacs, I think I would be getting the better deal.
Camaraderie
Innate desire to take things apart / build things
2. Name 3 things you dislike about being your own gender
Inability to handle emotions / alcohol often results in violence
Phenomenal crapness around the home. Grotesque vestiges of sexism. I put up a shelf every six months. She does the washing every day. Balls am I changing a nappy. Etc
Innate desire to take things apart / build things
3. Name 3 things you think you would like about being the opposite gender
Showers
Breastfeeding (This is supposed to represent the whole ‘mothering’ thing. That closeness)
Power
4. Name 3 things you think you would dislike about being the opposite gender
Living life on the edge of an emotional precipice
Inability to run or throw
Having to touch every garment in every shop twice before buying something that I think makes my back look fat.
Actually my most successful ever Handbag thread -- ie. it actually got lengthy and thoughtful answers -- was called Bodyswap and asked in detail what I would get if I traded lives with the forum women for the day, and vice versa.
I do find the idea quite fascinating, in terms of the specifics I would encounter.
quote:
Originally posted by 69 Comeback Elvis:
3. Name 3 things you think you would like about being the opposite genderShowers
Power
What do you mean? What kind of showers? What kind of power?
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Modge ]
1) Being able to show my emotions.
2) Being able to change how I look at times with the aid of makeup/hair colourants etc.
3) That mother & child thing - it's deep man.
2.Name 3 things you dislike about being your own gender
1) Queues in the ladies toilets.
2) Being labelled a slag if you've had a fair number of partners whilst men are just good ole boys if they've done the same.
3) The way in which others seem to pigeonhole women solely on how they appear physically.
3.Name 3 things you think you would like about being the opposite gender.
1) VP said it first but being able to take a piss standing up (and therefore making it quick which means no queues in the gents).
2) Being able to get up in the morning and spend exactly 5 minutes getting ready.
3) Getting genuinely excited by sports cars & knowing the offside rule.
4.Name 3 things you think you would dislike about being the opposite gender.
1) Getting 'desky' in inappropriate situations - the evidence is there for all to see.
2) Possible back/shoulder hair.
3) Not being able to show emotions.
Versatility of looks I agree with.
Not feeling under pressure to go out with the lads, drink 10 pints of Stella and still be awake/coherent/upright at the end of the evening.
I love shopping and can spend hours doing it. Makes xmas and birthdays a breeze which is something my better half struggles with endlessly year after year.
2.Name 3 things you dislike about being your own gender
The general pain thing. Periods, childbirth, water infections etc etc.
Receiving condescending attitudes if you take an interest in anything remotely male orientated like Football, Motorsport, Pints.
The money and effort involved in looking nice - Waxing, plucking, colouring, make up, exercise etc etc
3.Name 3 things you think you would like about being the opposite gender
Being able to pee anywhere, anytime...
4.Name 3 things you think you would dislike about being the opposite gender
Not being able to go gooey over puppies, kittens and babies
Being crap at shopping
Being expected to fix things
Cant think of anymore!
quote:
Originally posted by Zoophagous Patient:3) Getting genuinely excited by sports cars & knowing the offside rule.
Do you think this applies to most men, and do you think your life is lacking without it? I don't have either quality and I wouldn't say I miss them.
quote:
3) Not being able to show emotions.
And do you really think this is true?
quote:
Originally posted by Calliope:
Not feeling under pressure to go out with the lads, drink 10 pints of Stella and still be awake/coherent/upright at the end of the evening.
Again, do you really think most men -- most men on this board, for instance -- suffer under this "pressure"?
Likes:
My body, and physicality.
Toys. Yay! We get to play with toys all our lives!
Women. Yay! We get to have sex with them!
Dislikes:
Other men.
Insecurity and competetiveness.
Can't discuss anything emotionally significant. Obsession with watching sport and talking about it (as opposed to actually taking part in it). Self obsessiveness.
Attitudes, and particularly double standards, applied to men by society.
The presumtion that women are better at childcare. The presumption that men are expected to support their family should their partner choose that to be the case.
Violence.
Despite the fact that men are more likely to be the victim of violence, the presumption by women walking at night that we intend to attack them, makes me feel horrible.
Women:
Likes:
The female body. Much nicer to look at generally. That whole orgasm thing.
Motherhood.
Hips, lips, tits, power.
Clothes. Yah! Finally a decent selection. In compensation for our toys, you lucked out on the clothes front ladies. You have so many more options, and so much more available to you that looks good with out having to fork out a fortune.
If I want to I can stay at home and look after my kids. Fantastic, should my partner be happy for me to do so, for a few years I get to spend most of my time with my kids watching them grow up, take their first steps, learn to talk, and all that good shit, instead of going to work.
I don't care if you think I'm boring. Fuck you! I've spent the morning dancing round the living room with my children singing! Yay! And I'm making bread with them this afternoon!
Dislikes:
My body. Have to strap my tits down to run. Menstruation.
Menopause.
Other women. Competetiveness about bodies, over men, jobs, reproduction, etc.
Men. God I don't envy you lot.
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Boy Racer ]
And are we talking about swapping emotions etc. too? Or do you mean some kind of 'Freaky Friday' malarkey? I think I'd need the matching feelings to make it a meaningful experience.
I'd like to take a walk, late at night, without having to walk with a purpose, looking straight ahead, without making eye contact with anyone and without feeling quite so relieved when I make it through the front door without incident.
I'd also like to see women through a man's eyes, so that I can see how many times a day I misjudge the intentions of men.
quote:
Originally posted by Thorn Davis:
I have to agree. I've never felt any pressure to be either standing or coherent at the end of the night.
Ditto.
Although you do then run the risk of becoming a victim of Human Buckaroo.
quote:
Originally posted by Modge:
What do you mean? What kind of showers? What kind of power?
Showers with other women. I could happily kill a couple of days in a nice warm shower looking at naked wet women. I wouldn’t care a fig for my pruning skin.
Complete power. In my life, women run stuff -- families, homes, and businesses. I know more men run businesses, but I have a family and a home and those things shouldn’t be overlooked or demeaned on the grounds that they don’t earn money.
My wife works, like I do. I’m better than her at playing football. She’s better than me at remembering birthdays, paying bills, keeping in touch, tending to grazed knees, saving money, planning for the future, and drawing. I may be bigger and stronger, but that’s about it.
I’m really concerned about the above reading a bit middle-England, like a Daily Mail columnist bemoaning the women’s rights movement when women ‘already rule the roost’. I don’t mean it like that. It can be a hard thing to do, to talk about being a family, without sounding smug (actually, I don’t think this – but I included it because of the ‘smug coupledom’ stuff this forum feels on occasion) and without finding echoes of unfashionable/derided tradition in the words. My wife is good at things that are vital to my daily life. This gives her power. My friends’ wives and girlfriends are good at things that are vital to my friends’ daily lives. This gives them power.
Plus, girls have a sexual power over men that cannot be explained. Although I guess it does have a caveat in that the men should be straight. Gays are like girl krypton. I don’t know if it’s a big compliment, knowing that by projecting the sexual element of yourself you can gain power. It should be, perhaps, if the connotations of prostitution and the narrowed eyes and bitch whispers that accompany a woman turning up for a job interview with a low buttoned shirt could be removed. That last sentence is a doozy.
What are the big things? Sex and money. They’re not talking about men when they say sex.
What I dislike about being male:
What I would like about being female:
What I'd dislike about being female:
Sweetness and charm. I can get a lot of what I want by turning on the charm-tap, which can lubricate a discount out of the wiliest old Kybota-hireman at Southern Plant.
Not the communication thing, because I haven't got that, but girlfriends, definitely. People I can get guard-down drunk with, sing at the tops of our voices, read (and cry over) poetry with and love consistently through a variety of relationships with the opposite sex.
Dislikes about femaledom
The whole getting dressed thing. I have no idea how to do it, and have no idea where my girlfriends get their knowledge. I've just about mastered the work-type look, although I still cock it up occasionally, but I dread the slightly pitying, yet encouraging tone in friends' voices when they ask if I've been shopping by myself again.
The sheer variety and number of potential wrong-going things simply because you've got a girl-body. Breast cancer, cervical cancer, cystitis, yeast infections, various plumbing-related mishaps, periods coming in the wrong times, places and strengths, and never mind the range of menopausal horrors yet to burst on the horizon. And we're not going to talk about the embarrassing and uncomfortable medical procedures associated with the treatment of most of these things. Men have prostate trouble, that's it.
Being short and weak. I absolutely loathe the fact that while I can compete intellectually on a level playing field, I'm physically at a disadvantage. I can't lift things that are as heavy, work as hard for as long, or get things down off high shelves. Pisses me right off.
What I would like about being a boy
I know it's naff and obvious, but I would really, really like to have a willy for a bit. To feel what sex is like from the other side, to pee standing up, to have a pleasurable actual movement-against-cloth twitch rather than an inside-ache at a moment of unexpected horniness. Plus there would be the added bonus (one hopes) of a bed-partner being able to actually find the thing.
Obsessions - easier (I would think) if you're a boy. You're allowed to categorise your books and CDs, and alphabetise them.
Clothes. If you wear the same jeans, T-shirt and boots for every night out for a year (we are assuming in-between laundering here), nobody notices or cares.
Male dislikes
The inability to do more than one thing at a time. I suppose the upside is the ability to focus very clearly and consistently on what the one thing is, but I'd never get anything done if I had to do tasks one after the other.
The expectations. That you will be good at sport, that you will understand and enjoy football, that you will one day be the breadwinner, that you will be fertile and a good father...I think there's a lot of weight to carry if you're a Modern Bloke.
Shaving. I mean, every day. How much of a drag is that?
2.Name 3 things you dislike about being your own gender
3.Name 3 things you think you would like about being the opposite gender
//////////////
i've had to give up. it's almost impossible to reply to this thread without reinforcing, complying with, or suggesting credibility in gender-based generalisations. the only points on this thread with any real kind of validity are those involving physicality.
Having breasts. Breasts are great. Breasts are beautiful. There is no male equivalent for breasts - nutsacs just don't cut it.
Motherhood - I have found being a mother very fulfilling. More than I ever anticipated, as I didn't actually like children until I had my own.
Wider range of clothing choice. Shallow, I know. I just like the fact that I can wear skirts or trousers without having to worry about potential public derision. I can also wear any colour I choose (although having dark hair helps here also).
3 things I dislike about being female:
The double standards that the wearing of make up can sometimes evoke. For instance, not wearing any can see a female branded as a bra-burning, wimminz issuez spouting lezzer type. On the other hand, wearing make up can also mean that you are less likely to be taken seriously and are easier to dismiss as a 'girly type'.
Periods. Enough said already. And I won't even get started on ridiculously priced sanitary products.
Lack of solidarity. From my own experience, I think that women are less likely to 'stick together' than men. Women seem more likely to stab each other in the back, bitch about each other or treat other women snidely than men seem to.
3 things I'd like if I were a man:
The ability to piss free range. Caught short and desperate? No having to walk cross legged until you find a toilet. No having to find a hedge big enough to crouch behind. No having to worry about passing motorists glimpsing your arse in the air and attributing it to an unexpected eclipse.
Being physically bigger and stronger. I'd really like that. I'd like to be the protective male.
Being able to find all things technical/mechanical really, really interesting. Interesting enough to care about.
3 things I'd dislike if I were a man:
Not knowing that certain things you may say in jest to a male friend aren't interpreted in the same jocular fashion by a female friend. For example, calling her a fat wanker and then wondering why she didn't take it as a joke.
Being expected to be competitive and indulge in bravado if this isn't part of your personality anyway.
Nutsacs. They're just not the same as breasts, are they?
quote:
Originally posted by Fionnula the Cooler:
i've had to give up. it's almost impossible to reply to this thread without reinforcing, complying with, or suggesting credibility in gender-based generalisations. the only points on this thread with any real kind of validity are those involving physicality.
Maybe not. What I find interesting about these questions is that it shows personal perceptions about your opposite gender; I agree it would be impossible to answer "accurately" as you can't know what it is like to be the opposite gender, or indeed to be anyone else of your gender other than yourself.
I don't think the only interesting answers are those involving the physical - look at the number of female posters who have rated their relationships with other women/ability to communicate, for example.
The other interesting thing is that what is good for someone may be bad for someone else - some women like the fact they have freedom of clothes choice, others feel constrained by it. Some women have commented positively on childbirth, others have cited it as a negative aspect of being a woman.
I have only provided female examples here as I am wary of speaking about men too much!
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Modge ]
quote:
Originally posted by Sidney:
Being expected to be competitive and indulge in bravado if this isn't part of your personality anyway.
You're so right.
That and the assumption that if you're not into football you must be a poof or a peadoh.
And daily shaving pretty much sucks, but feminine hair removal must be worse, albeit not required as often.
quote:
Originally posted by Calliope:
Not feeling under pressure to go out with the lads, drink 10 pints of Stella and still be awake/coherent/upright at the end of the evening.Originally posted by Kovacs:Again, do you really think most men -- most men on this board, for instance -- suffer under this "pressure"?
I'm sure there are plenty of men who dont but I personally know of people who are from their friends. Terms such as 'lightweight' are bandied around frequently should one lad not be able to keep up with his mates... but maybe thats my experience and is relevant to the age/experience of the people I socialise with.
It wasnt meant to be a generalisation encompassing all men.
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Calliope ]
quote:
Originally posted by Modge:
I don't think the only interesting answers are those involving the physical - look at the number of female posters who have rated their relationships with other women/ability to communicate, for example.
That's what I find difficult, though - the way we're implying that all men are like this, and all women are like that. Using your example of women's ability to communicate, it implies that women are more skilled at communication than men, that men aren't really able to communicate well, and that's not a fair judgement to make; certainly not as fair as it is to comment on menstruation, or facial hair, or other physical traits, which are virtually exclusive to their respective genders and therefore fair to discuss. I haven't related emotionally to many of the points made by the men earlier in the thread, which can feel quite alienating.
And I realise this is a very Obvious argument to be making, but it bothered me too much not to mention.
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Fionnula the Cooler ]
quote:
Originally posted by Fionnula the Cooler:
And I realise this is a very Obvious argument to be making, but it bothered me too much not to mention.
Nothing wrong with Obvious arguments. I see what you mean, that menstruation is a physical fact about being female, facial hair is for men, whereas being better at communication isn't a measurable factor.
I shan't attempt to speak for anyone else, but when I listed "relationships and communication with other women" as one of my girl plus points, I wasn't thinking "women are better at this than men", what I was thinking was "this is something which is socially acceptable amongst women in a way that it isn't amongst men." I wouldn't attempt to say it was true of all women or not true of all men, but it is something that I perceive to be a positive thing about my life that I connect to my gender.
It is these variants in opinion (like those I mentioned in my post above) that make this subject interesting to me, I find what people have said about things that are non-physical more thought-provoking than what people (including myself) have said about physicality.
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Modge ]
quote:
Originally posted by Boy Racer:
Fuck you! I've spent the morning dancing round the living room with my children singing! Yay! And I'm making bread with them this afternoon!
lolol. boy racer, i think nigella lawson has stolen your password. you complete fantasist.
being lady: good things-
1. dickins and jones summer lingerie sale. rigby and peller suspender belts for £3.
2. okay, having periods is a bit rubbish, but theyre also kinda cool. blood is a really great colour. and so theyre messy- well, thats just another excuse to spend lots of money at the dickins and jones summer lingerie sale. my body is groovy. it can make babies. rock the fuck on.
3. conversations with strangers in the ladies' after 5 drinks.
being lady: bad things-
1. the concept that being sexualised is 'power'. thorn is right, the idea that sex is power only applies if you are young and attractive. as soon as that youth slips, or if you were never that 'attractive' in the first place, you understand just how much power you have. fuck all. because you are invisible, and if youre not invisible you're offensive. fuck the 'power' inherent in being young and attractive. that aint power. thats being kept in your place.
2. period + thrush + cystitis at the same time: fuuuuuuuck that.
3. umm...well, misogyny.
things i would like about being a man:
1...i dunno. being able to pick someone up and hold them above my head. loads of men can do that.
2. understanding how to stop the wires on electrical goods getting tangled up.
3. still quite liking my body if i put on half a stone. being able to eat a huge curry without thinking 'oh, but i did only have weetabix for breakfast and im going swimming tomorrow'. not knowing what cellulite is. not being under 24 hour a day pressure to comform to impossible standards of grooming and beauty, basically.
being man: bad things-
1. yeah, public boners! that must be the worst. mind you, is it any worse than the big red patch. i dunno.
2. blokes. not men, blokes. ugh, blokes suck.
3. cant think of any more.
quote:
Originally posted by discodamage:
thorn is right, the idea that sex is power only applies if you are young and attractive.
No it doesn’t. Thorn is right, only the young and the attractive get stared at -- but being sexualised and being young and attractive are not the same things at all.
My Auntie is neither young nor attractive (in the way that we mean young and attractive here), but she bends my Uncle round her finger, has a great, dirty laugh, and can very easily dominate a room with her sexuality.
Of course the truth is that she diets and fusses and goes quiet if her ‘better looking’ sister walks in. But when she’s happy, she flies.
quote:
Originally posted by Zoophagous Patient:
..knowing the offside rule...
I don't know anything about footie, ZP, but for free, gratis and nothing, I will tell you what the offside rule is:
You can't pass to a player on your own team who is beyond the last defender (apart from the goalie) on the opposing team.
See? Piece of piss, really.
The fact that I never have to grow up. I can take part in a weekly activity that requires me to cover my body in foam rubber and dive around on the floor while other boys try to ping an itty bitty ball past me, all the time shouting 'WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE' at the top of my voice and loving it. The best bit? I need do nothing to attempt to justify this behaviour...
The ability to drink. I drink 5 or 6 drinks and I turn into a giggle monster and enjoy myself. Wimmins drink 5 or six drinks and descend into a whirlwind of melancholy, remorse and vomit. But not necessarily in that order.
I can get away with being crap at most things and the worst rebuff I can expect is 'Tsk, MEN!!'
2.Name 3 things you dislike about being your own gender
Responsibility. People look to you to be good at everything, responsible and good with money. We are not. Male pride will not allow us to accept this and it leads to emotional turmoil.
Emotional turmoil due to male pride. It is wrong. I hate it but I am a slave to it.
Testicles. As a player of 'rough' physical sports I hate them. I need to be able to remove them and pop them in a jar whenever I play sports. They get in the way, get pinched buy equipment designed to protect them and are generally always in the way.
3.Name 3 things you think you would like about being the opposite gender
The ability to stop traffic just by wearing a low cut top. Also knowing that I can go out and, if I want one, I will definitely end up with a shag on a particular night. This does not bother me too much any more now that I am in a strong relationship, but it used to bug the hell out of me. Men are NOT choosy. We aren't, therefore if a wimmins wanted it she could have it, it might be with a bit of a skeesy loser, but it would be available.
Breasts. I think breasts are wonderful. It is my hope that having some (nice ones) would help me understand the psychology of why they hold so much power over men.
Being able to organise. Men cannot multitask as well as women. I need that ability so badly. If I attempt anymore than two things at once, forget it.
4.Name 3 things you think you would dislike about being the opposite gender
Periods. I see the damage they do to my partner every month. Glad I do not have to go through all of that emotional and physical turmoil while going about my daily business pretending nothing is wrong for fear that mens will think that I am using 'it's my period' as just an excuse for being rubbish.
Breasts. Despite being the ultimate source of awe, I imagine they get in the way worst than testicles when doing sporty things.
Having to spend time thinking about what I wear. I am lucky in that jeans and t-shirt will fit most male clothing needs. If they don't then a suit will.
Right having answered that can I ask something?
Why do most of the women here believe you need to be a man to have physical presence? Women have something I would kill for. Speed. Speed of mind and of body. At Tae Kwon Do, when sparring the most feared person in the room is not our 16 stone skinhead male black belt instructor. It is the wirey blond red belt in the corner. That one that hits you twice before you know what to think. The one that can react to whatever you do, so quickly, that you may as well not bother. She knows she can deck the lot of us and you can see it. Not in a male shouty braggard way. There is a glint in her eye and she wears a wry smile. She knows and she fears no one. Maybe if you are a woman that needs self-confidence and fitness you should look into this. Women make so much better martial artists than men...
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Teflon ]
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Teflon ]
quote:
Originally posted by Teflon:
[QB] Women have something I would kill for. Speed. Speed of mind
You've never lurked on handbag, have you Teflon?
Good thing about men = you can piss standing up
Good thing about women = nice clothes
I do tend to think that the men who are harping on about how girls can "stop traffic in a vest top" are imagining the type of girl from the 17 (cosmetics) advert who put on mascara to the rattle of gunfire -- it's not makeup, it's ammunition. I can think of an awful lot of women, at my work for instance, who would not stop traffic in anything resembling a good way if they wore a short skirt and vest top. They would get looks alright, just as I would in a short skirt and vest top. And I don't think they feel they're frisky sex militia with an artillery of man-killing accessories: as I think Discodamage said, they might well feel their lack of this power more than any man does.
I agree that some girls do have the facility to alter their clothing, show more cleavage &c and have a predictable effect on men, but I believe everyone who's producing this as an advantage to femaleness is imagining a certain type of woman -- a woman who is probably in the minority of women in general.
NB. also, let's not forget that the supposedly female power to flutter and charm does entirely exist for men, in reverse. Even I must admit that I can hold a charismatic power over a certain type of woman receptionist, secretary and shop assistant. Not to mention media student.
quote:
Originally posted by Teflon:
1.Name 3 things you like about being your own genderAlso knowing that I can go out and, if I want one, I will definitely end up with a shag on a particular night. This does not bother me too much any more now that I am in a strong relationship, but it used to bug the hell out of me. Men are NOT choosy. We aren't, therefore if a wimmins wanted it she could have it, it might be with a bit of a skeesy loser, but it would be available.
damn. i could have been having sex with skeezy men for the entirity of my adult single life! and i didnt know i had the power! why does noone tell us how lucky we are?
this is such an odd concept, that men are jealous of women for potentially being able to have more crap meaningless sex with people they dont fancy. whoopdefuckingdoo, girl power.
quote:
Breasts. I think breasts are wonderful. It is my hope that having some (nice ones) would help me understand the psychology of why they hold so much power over men.
lol, make up your mind, teflon. do you like all breasts, or just nice ones?
quote:
Originally posted by discodamage:
lol, make up your mind, teflon. do you like all breasts, or just nice ones?
I dunno DD I am honestly conflicted. I think If I am gonna try them out I should hold out for a nice pair. That said as a man that includes most breasts that fall into the 18-40 age range.
See my issue. I am weak. And incesicive.
Help!!
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Teflon ]
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
I believe everyone who's producing this as an advantage to femaleness is imagining a certain type of woman -- a woman who is probably in the minority of women in general.
Eh. I think people are just imagining what it's like to be what they perceive as the 'best' of whatever the opposite sex has to offer when doing the 'good points'. You know, sexy, smart, emotionally warm. But you would wouldn't you? If I posted, "I reckon I'd hate being a woman because I'd sit inside all day blobbing myself into a state of flabby despair, self harming every time a more attractive woman appeared on the telly", you'd think there was something wrong with me. It's like, If I was on my own listening to records and imagining playing a gig - but I was imagining playing a gig where I was really fucking up and everyone hated me. That would say pretty grim things about my self image.
But I have to say, i doubt I've ever had the effect on a woman that a pretty, charming girl has on me, that is to make me feel out classed, stupid and woefully unsexy. I think this is the moment I feel most 'other' to women, most distant, so I suppose that's the 'opposite' I would most like to experience.
for a little while, although I could see how it would get tiresome. As i say, it's just something I see as different to my day to day existence, and it's a notion I associate with gurlz.
i would quite like to know if any of you boys can lift a person above your head though.
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: discodamage ]
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
I agree that some girls do have the facility to alter their clothing, show more cleavage &c and have a predictable effect on men, but I believe everyone who's producing this as an advantage to femaleness is imagining a certain type of woman -- a woman who is probably in the minority of women in general.
Also, whilst women may have the option to choose from a wider variety of clothes/hair styles/make-up/shoes than men, this can be a curse as well as a blessing.
I know I listed it as one of my positive points, because I do appreciate having that choice, but I think - and other women have said this earlier here - that there is/can be a huge amount of pressure to look a certain way. So whilst you have the freedom, it can be a bit of a false freedom. Yes, I have the choice to go to work in a skirt or in trousers (well, not in my job, but say if I worked in an office) but how will I be judged upon these decisions. If I choose to go out without wearing make-up, I am putting forward something for people (largely women I think) to judge and comment upon, moreso than I think would happen with a man's appearance.
Having said all that, I do like the fact that my wardrobe consists of both combats, jeans, trainers etc and spiked heels, dresses and floaty chiffon tops, but I am aware when I choose which combination of me to wear, I am putting forward a version of myself for judgement.
quote:
Originally posted by ben:
I can throw a bale of straw a good 6ft above my own head, if that's any good.
*swoon*
Wish I was a girl.
quote:
Originally posted by ben:
I can throw a bale of straw a good 6ft above my own head, if that's any good.
itll do. tel you what, ill stand next to you in a vest top, we can start up a circus act.
quote:
Originally posted by ben:
I can throw a bale of straw a good 6ft above my own head, if that's any good.
In fairness, I can do that too. So no.
That's it for me on this subject.
I want one. I want to carry one I want to have a baby.
Were I a woman I could do this, I could get some sexy bloke to sperm me up and get what I want, but as a bloke I'm fucked, well and truly fucked. I can't have one myself and if I do have one with a lady I have to wait till she's 'ready' or run the risk that one day she may well choose to leave and take my child away with her (again).
I have a strong desire to have children, I can't explain it but I do, I just want to be a father..
Having a penis is all well and good, but it gets beaten hands down by the ability to reproduce any day.
Fuck - I've made myself cry again now.
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Darryn.R ]
quote:
Originally posted by Astromariner:
In fairness, I can do that too. So no.
Astromariner's a bloke?
quote:
Originally posted by Modge:
I do like the fact that my wardrobe consists of both combats, jeans, trainers etc and spiked heels, dresses and floaty chiffon tops, but I am aware when I choose which combination of me to wear, I am putting forward a version of myself for judgement.
Dudes -- guess which end of this garment spectrum Modge occupies when she is at home with me, and which end she inhabits when out with the girls.
quote:
Originally posted by discodamage:
but i dont do any of the above, because all the above situations are in their own way fantasies.
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: discodamage ]
Dur, well of course they are. Last time I checked I'm not a woman. Yeah, still there, thank god. Oh look and I don't have any children yet either. Funny that, I thought this was real.
Yes women are far more judged on their appearences than men, but I do think that's seperate from the issue I raised which is that it's far easier to get nice clothes (for less) if you're a girl, and you have a huge amount of more options in what you can wear.
My point, which I think you'd have got if you'd payed attention to what I put throughout my answers, is that childcare provision and attitudes towards it within our society, are based around the idea that women do it. Of course not every woman has the option to stay at home, or chooses not to take it. That is their right also.
I simply feel men should have this option, should they so desire, or that responsiblities should be more equally shared, and that society should be more flexable towards this being the case. I think this will happen as more women start earning more than their partners.
Being girly when I want to be.
Being a tomboy when I want to.
Um...I dunno. The dislikes are easier than the likes....let me think...how about this:
Soft and silky hair, a girlish mouth, eyes like windows to the soul
2.Name 3 things you dislike about being your own gender
PMS. Periods, cramps, mood swings. The sometimes utter despair that you can feel while pmsing.
Childbirth. Yes, I know...I've never experienced it, but I remember seeing the video when I was 11 or 12 and it's gross. And apparently incredibly painful. It's a shame you can't just magically pop a baby out. (My sister in law was telling me about hers this weekend...ugh. Then my other sister in law chimed in "Oh Amy, don't let Ali scare you, it's really not *that* bad." Shyeah right.)
Big boobs. I hate them, they are cumbersome and get in the way. And way too heavy. T-shirts never look as nice on women as they do on men.
3.Name 3 things you think you would like about being the opposite gender
Have to agree with the whole standing and peeing thing. Make life much easier, and you'd save money on tp.
Having a penis. I think it would be cool to experience sex from a male perspective.
Understanding math. Most (i say most, b/c its not all) of the guys I know excel at math...where as to me, it's just a bunch of numbers that get jumbled in my head.
As for the toys and gadgets and stuff. I can't agree with half of the opinions on here. I love toys and gadgets. I like stuff. Give me an mp3 player, surround sound, digi cameras, and pcs and everything. It's fun!
4.Name 3 things you think you would dislike about being the opposite gender
If you're one of the unlucky ones and have loads of hair. I'd end up either shaving or waxing it all off. (I'm not talking leg hair, that looks sexy on men, I'm talking loads of back and chest hair. Where it looks like they have a wooly sweater on)
Not having the clothing choices of women and make up.
Not knowing when to call a girl. My friend is driving me nuts with his inability to be more confident and just call this girl. I give him advice that he doesn't listen to, and it's driving me mad. I told him he wasn't getting any more advice out of me, if he wasn't going to listen to it.
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
Dudes -- guess which end of this garment spectrum Modge occupies when she is at home with me, and which end she inhabits when out with the girls.
Coming from the man who spends all his time at home in his stripey NEXT pjyamas, and who saves his nicest clothes for the start of term when he wants to make a good impression on the new study abroad (female) students... bleh.
quote:
Originally posted by Boy Racer:
My point, which I think you'd have got if you'd payed attention to what I put throughout my answers,
[moe] call for mr pat ronising. is there a pat ronising in the bar?[/moe]
i have no quibble with men doing the raising of the children, dude. the reason i was laughing was the running around dancing and making bread thing- it just doesnt sound all that realistic to me. thats all. you can take your pompous hat off now.
Less pressure to be 'good in bed' - most things work the same on most fellas (I believe)
Being able to sit in a civilised manner on public transport
Bad things about being a girl
Power of fertility - the decision whether or not to have children is so vast, life-changing and irreversible. And it affects every other aspect of life like career, friendships, self-knowledge... it seems that men can more easily be fathers AND have a life.
Nipples in the cold, and their staring at. Alright, already. Don't yours do that too? Now fuck off.
The ever-widening gulf between the 'ideal' and one's 'real' body shape.
Good things about being a boy
Easy friendships based on a common interest, and less paranoia about misplaced comments, sideways looks at one's second pudding, etc
Having a deep voice.
Not getting ripped off in garages, even if you don't know a head gasket from a grease nipple.
Bad things about being a boy
Being expected to know about cars, when really you're more interested in flowers.
Having cumbersome genitals which prevent civilised sitting on public transport.
Having to be confident, decisive and manly at the same time as being sensitive and loving, in the right proportions, at the right moment, to get/keep bird.
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: discodamage ]
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
Why are you lying, Modge. They aren't "stripey".
ahem.
[ 30 June 2003: Message edited by: Modge ]
quote:
Originally posted by herbs:
Feeling in charge of fertility - having the power to produce a new person
I am slightly baffled by all the people citing women's power to give birth as a great plus-point of femaleness. Is it really, do you think, a power of much greater magnitude than the man's role in fertility? Don't men have the power to produce a new person to a similar extent, and isn't it the case that women alone don't actually have that power, any more than men do with surrogacy and IVF?
I'm not pretending that carrying and giving birth to a child is the same as fertilising its egg, or that they are on an equivalent level. I'm sure the former gives you a different relationship with the child before and after birth.
But in terms of the remarkable ability to produce a human being from something in yourself, I would have thought men and women were technically equal.
quote:
Easy friendships based on a common interest, and less paranoia about misplaced comments, sideways looks at one's second pudding, etc
I agree with this, though. I do feel that relationships with and between women are barbed-wire tightropes across minefields. When I have fallen out with a close male friend it can be very easily patched up, sometimes without even saying anything -- perhaps a sheepish smile, a playful touching of boots. With women, you can think you've made up and yet be unnervingly aware that their friendliness has a sly, overly-bright fakiness to it from then on.
quote:
Originally posted by Amy:
[QBT-shirts never look as nice on women as they do on men..[/QB]
Erm... Yes... Yes they do... They're lumpier and everything
[Male: like]
[Male : Dislike]
[Female : Like]
[Female : Dislike]
'That's an interesting idea' = Shouldn't you be at home doing the dishes?
'Really? I would never had thought of that' = Shouldn't you be having babies rather than wasting my time with your trivial gibbering?
'That's a nice top' = Shouldn't you be bouncing up and down on the end of my knob by now.. or are you frigid?
If I wanted to I could go hitch-hiking again.
Ability to walk down most streets semi-invisible to those who I have no wish to be involved with.
Interacting with women as a man (eg: flirting).
Three men-hates
Aside from occasionally feeling disgusted with other men for doing the sort of stuff only men would/could do - none really. Being a bloke is pretty fucking sweet really - I think it's striking how many of the "downsides" mentioned above are either piffling or bogus.
Three women-likes
Unforced, spontaneous interest in the dynamics of human relationships.
Minute ability to recall conversation/arguments.
Would probably be a better dancer, having (acceptably) spent much of my youth learning moves of friends in our bedrooms.
Three women-hates
Being exposed to the full force of:
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
Is it really, do you think, a power of much greater magnitude than the man's role in fertility? Don't men have the power to produce a new person to a similar extent, and isn't it the case that women alone don't actually have that power, any more than men do with surrogacy and IVF?
I spose I was expanding on what Darryn said, really. If I wanted to have a child, I could do so by going and getting myself impregnated. The 'father' need know nothing about it, nor have any knowledge or anything to do with the resulting offspring. And in relationships, women hold the contraception cards.
Then once conceived, the man's role is over. Thank you... bye. I think spending nine months with your blood supply running through and supporting another being is probably a smidge more involved that leaving a sample at a sperm donor.
This is glib, sorry, but I'm knackered.
quote:
Originally posted by LowLevel:
[Male: like]
[list]I like the way people believe what I say.. The way my opinion has extra worth because I have testicles.
yes, id like that too, who wouldnt. can i swap the thing about 'untangling wires' for 'my opinion having extra intrinsic worth', please?
I think if I became Vogon Poetess for a week, as she requests -- I would say Bernie but I have no idea about your life or appearance, Bernie, whereas I have some small sense of what being VP would involve -- I would in all honesty not go out of the house for hours because I'd want to be so sure I hadn't done something stupid with my appearance, or wasn't walking in a manly way, or had some other embarrassing mannerism (mm, see what I did) or femme faux pas that women, if not fellows, would immediately spot and laugh at.
However, I would get to wear VP's "princess" skirt.
quote:
Originally posted by LowLevel:
[Female : Like]
- Feeling safe, walking with my 'Man' knowing that if something's going to have to be pretty big (or pretty accurate) to get past him and hurt me
lol. If some psychotic swedge-merchant came up to me and my 'Man', I think we'd both tacitly acknowledge that our best chance would lie with me kneeing said attacker in the nads and then us both running like fuck.
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
Why is it that men often seem to think they would sit indoors playing with their breasts, if they became a woman? Do any women do this when they first develop a "bust"?
Most men seem to be fascinated with them. Hence playing with them would seem obvious, as they can then find out what it feels like. However I'ld like to see the look of surprise when their cackhanded attempts at "tuning in radio 4" don't actually do anything that "great".
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
Breasts are just "fat"; I have enough of "that" already.
And other woman would actually agree with me.
quote:
Originally posted by Bob:
Is it so it can swim the Atlantic?
What do you call a man in the Atlantic with no arms or legs.
stay on topic...stay on topic...
quote:
Originally posted by discodamage:
lolololol. high five, ringers.
back atcha sista
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
Breasts are just "fat"; I have enough of "that" already.
You'll be telling us vaginas are just flaps of flesh soon.
Its healthy to be midly interested in breasts. Just not a great deal after the age of 12.
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
Why is it that men often seem to think they would sit indoors playing with their breasts, if they became a woman? Do any women do this when they first develop a "bust"?
Oh gosh, yes! Actually, we do more of it later in life. "They" are a bit intimidating when they first appear. But we soon learn how enjoyable they are 
I speak, of course, from my own experience and that of my friends. Can't say all women do it.
Men play with their balls much more, though. I mean, they do it in public!
I like being a woman ..... for the enhanced ability to take a long view; the facility to do several things at once; "emotional intelligence". Some men have these characteristics, but most women do.
I'd prefer being a man ..... to be stronger; to have fewer expectations of relationships; for the social advantages (I think) men enjoy.
I'd rather be less judged by appearances - as men are - but I'd rather have breasts than testicles!
quote:
Originally posted by AgeingGrace:
I like being a woman ..... the facility to do several things at once
I would suggest that any man who uses the internet is used to doing lots of things at once. Surely it's the norm to have loads of windows up.
quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
I would suggest that any man who uses the internet is used to doing lots of things at once. Surely it's the norm to have loads of windows up.
err, that is still only doing one thing - having cyber sex with 5 msn chate girls is the same (I imagine) as having cyber sex with 1.
It is a common (mis)perception(?) that women have the ability to multi-task well. I'm sure some science people proved it somehow, isn't it something to do with using different parts of the brain?
My multi-tasking abilities can extend to all manner of things except, it seems, retention of relevant scientific knowledge.
quote:
Originally posted by Modge:
err, that is still only doing one thing - having cyber sex with 5 msn chate girls is the same (I imagine) as having cyber sex with 1.
You are showing your ignorance, because women all like different things in "bed". You can't just type the same stuff to all of them! pmsl @ u
quote:
Originally posted by Modge:
My multi-tasking abilities can extend to all manner of things except, it seems, retention of relevant scientific knowledge.
quote:
Originally posted by Astromariner:
Good lord.
At which part?
quote:
Originally posted by Boy Racer:... childcare provision and attitudes towards it within our society, are based around the idea that women do it. Of course not every woman has the option to stay at home, or chooses not to take it. That is their right also.
I simply feel men should have this option, should they so desire, or that responsiblities should be more equally shared, and that society should be more flexable towards this being the case. I think this will happen as more women start earning more than their partners.
Where is 'society' inflexible in this respect? Men have already got the choice - There is no law against dividing childcare equally between parents or against fathers doing the bigger part, or all of it.
If this is what you want to happen, then you have to make it happen. 'Society' won't come and knock on your door one morning and tell you it's OK for you to be the primary carer for your kids - it's a matter of personal choice. I know that it's often a matter of economic choice, but the choice remains, all the same.
quote:
Originally posted by discodamage:
the reason i was laughing was the running around dancing and making bread thing- it just doesnt sound all that realistic to me. thats all. you can take your pompous hat off now.
Yes, well, that was a snap shot of the sort of thing my Mum used to do with my sister and I when she took time out from her career (at the expense of her pension) to spend raising us during our formative years, so from my experience that was fairly realistic.
It's also what my poor kids can expect to have inflicted on them by their father, should I ever get round to having any.
And of course I left out the various points she had to shake me upside down in order in expel whatever small object I'd attempted to swallow, or the general horror it must have been raising a child whose idea of fun consisted of bouncing off things and landing on his head. Or sewing lentils through the landing floorboards so we had beansproats popping up, or painting live snail's shells with enamel paints and racing them round the bathroom.
Aren't kids grand. 
quote:
Originally posted by Bernie:
Where is 'society' inflexible in this respect? Men have already got the choice - There is no law against dividing childcare equally between parents or against fathers doing the bigger part, or all of it.If this is what you want to happen, then you have to make it happen. 'Society' won't come and knock on your door one morning and tell you it's OK for you to be the primary carer for your kids - it's a matter of personal choice. I know that it's often a matter of economic choice, but the choice remains, all the same.
Society is not made simply of laws but also of attitudes. Where is there inequity in society's treatment of the division of child care? Now let me see, oh that'd be maternity leave as opposed to paternity leave. Several months as opposed to what a couple of weeks. For starters.
And before you get started I'm not disputing the needs of a woman for physical recuperation following carrying and giving birth to a child either.
And yes some men can choose to have more to do with the raising of their children (and not just in their formative years), the increase in people working from home can only help this. But I think it's fair to say that whilst some men have the option the vast majority do not, and certainly not to the same extent as women where that right is assumed as an option, as opposed to being something that would have to be pursued as an option.
I also think, and people are free to argue with me on this one, that our society still assumes / suggests that women are naturally better / more suited to child care than men.
[ 01 July 2003: Message edited by: Boy Racer ]
I take the point about maternity leave, but read your post to mean that you wanted to do the job over the long term, not just the first few months.
[ 01 July 2003: Message edited by: Bernie ]
quote:
Originally posted by Ringo:
five minutes of fondling, even when they're there in front of them
Ah, but, Y'see, In this case; You'd not only be knocking out a tune on the old funbag accordian.
But you'd be getting the benefit of it yourself. A plan with no minus points if you will.
It'd be like having a wank without having to wash your hands.. or the cat.. afterwards..
quote:
Originally posted by Boy Racer:
And yes some men can choose to have more to do with the raising of their children (and not just in their formative years), the increase in people working from home can only help this. But I think it's fair to say that whilst some men have the option the vast majority do not, and certainly not to the same extent as women
Glad we're free to dispute this ... thanks, very kind of you!
I can't see there's any social pressure these days on couples who choose to reverse the traditional roles.
The pressures, I think, are financial.
Whilst some couples have the option, the majority do not. Most couples in the UK need both of their salaries to keep a home & family going.
Where the woman earns more than the man - and this is becoming far more common amongst high-earning couples, where one partner "downshifts" - it becomes logical for the man to take on the greater share of home & child care.
Of course, it is still true that the majority of men earn much more than the majority of women. So it's financially logical for the man to stay in his full-time work.
I think you will have your true equality of opportunity on the home front, the very instant women get the true equality of pay.
Cheers,
AG
quote:
Originally posted by London:
It's better if someone else does it. Besides, it's quite tricky to suck one's own nipples. (Though it can be done.)
Only if you have a very short neck - or very large breasts ..... Show off!
quote:
Originally posted by AgeingGrace:
Of course, it is still true that the majority of men earn much more than the majority of women.
Well, if you'd paid more attention at school.. rather than spending all of your time daydreaming about ponies, flowers & babies.. Perhaps you'd be earning a decent wage now..
I don't really have to put in a wanky do I?
quote:Well, you know, if you can.
Originally posted by London:
Actually, the operative word is 'lick' rather than 'suck'. Apologies. Who would do that anyway. It's way tacky.
quote:
Originally posted by LowLevel:
Well, if you'd paid more attention at school.. rather than spending all of your time daydreaming about ponies, flowers & babies.. Perhaps you'd be earning a decent wage now..
I failed that class 
quote:Let's face it, it's thanks to that extra vertebrae that the human race ever got off the ground. Now there's a theory for the extinction of species you don't hear very often.
Originally posted by Bob:
Ah its alright, most boys failed the "suck your own dick" exam.
Its due to us having one too many vertebrae.
The feeling that people talk to me without feeling that I'm either bored or expecting something from them - girls are natural listeners
The control I can now exercise over my body - having children is my choice, not my birthright.
The aesthetics of the female form - there are actually days when i can see my body in the mirror and be quite intrigued by the way it curves, by the shapes involved. Rather than just being long and straight with nads.
Three woman-hates
Being underestimated due to gender-based prejudice. And having stupid mistakes that I make be ascribed to the fact that I'm a woman, and not just to the fact that I'm a klutz.
Offers of accompaniment to the train station/bus stop/shops/anywhere and knowing that it would be common sense to accept, and somehow I find my adult self in a society where I cannot exist without protection.
Any of the following words: slut, slag, whore, bitch, tart, cunt (used as an insult), easy, slapper, and possibly the worst ever, frigid. And the ways in which they are used to batter me into smaller and tighter ideological corners.
Three men-likes
Being able to penetrate another human being and feel yourself inside them and surrounded by them.
Feeling safe when alone at night (although aren't young men twice as likely as young women to be victims of street violence?)
Not having to fight as hard to be taken seriously.
Three man-hates
Nads.
Inability to listen without instinctively racking my brain for the quickest and most cost-efficient solution to the problem.
Nads.
Women, on the other hand, tend to hedge what they know with disclaimers and indications at to the limits of their expertise - you can therefore take it more at face value.
Anyway, that's my take on it.
quote:
Originally posted by AgeingGrace:
Glad we're free to dispute this ... thanks, very kind of you!I can't see there's any social pressure these days on couples who choose to reverse the traditional roles.
The pressures, I think, are financial.
Whilst some couples have the option, the majority do not. Most couples in the UK need both of their salaries to keep a home & family going.
Where the woman earns more than the man - and this is becoming far more common amongst high-earning couples, where one partner "downshifts" - it becomes logical for the man to take on the greater share of home & child care.
Of course, it is still true that the majority of men earn much more than the majority of women. So it's financially logical for the man to stay in his full-time work.
I think you will have your true equality of opportunity on the home front, the very instant women get the true equality of pay.
Cheers,
AG
With regards to your other comments.
I would have thought that financial pressures are part of society. Part of my arguement is that, particularly for a society that likes to bang on about how important childcare is, we seem to do very little about making things more equitable for BOTH SEXES in respect to it.
My point is it should be more socially (IN THE WORKPLACE) acceptable for people of either sex to reduce their working hours in order to take a more active role in the raising of their children, without that having such an extreme effect on peoples careers.
I also think the whole financial arguement is a phallacy. Many couples where both parents work full time do so becuase they have chosen a certain lifestyle, and both have to work to maintain it. This is yet another choice they have made.
I think I already said in a previous post, that more men are taken the primary childcare role when their partner is the higher earner, and this kind of diffusion of traditional roles can only be a positive step to the sort of equality of choice that I'm advocating.
[ 01 July 2003: Message edited by: Bob ]
quote:
its been called that in france for ages.
quote:
Originally posted by Bob:
that makes me sound a cunt.
How do you sound a c**t? Is it anything like sounding a horn?
quote:
Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles:
How do you sound a c**t? Is it anything like sounding a horn?
Aye. It's when you interfere with it and it makes that schlucking noise.
quote:
Originally posted by Bob:
No its much like that thing you do with empty bottles. You just blow across the top of them. Not like a conch, where you have to spit the air into them.
Can the pitch be varied by some kind of clenching?
Do mothers have a deeper tone?
Does shaving/waxing leader to a purer note?
[ 01 July 2003: Message edited by: victoria ]