quote:Originally posted by Roy: Is it worth reading?
It's funny in places. But I don't want to endorse laughing at the holocaust though. I'm not a very choice of metering whether books are good or not so the worse you can do is burn it afterwards and type me some harsh words.
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Maybe you should try some Primo Levi too, Roy. I read 3 stories of his in the ever-reliable Penguin 70s format last week, and found them pretty compelling. I think Rick has found evidence on some website that Levi never existed.
I enjoyed Everything Is Illuminated, but not as much as most reviewers did. There is a film of it coming out shortly, if you want to get the essence of it in a far shorter space of time.
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i didnt like it much, if that means anything. but then, i dunno, theres something about russia in the early 20th century that i find really super- untempting as a topic.
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quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: For no money at all you should be able to find a copy of The Dork of Cork by Chet Raymo.
Read that.
Has anyone ?
Yes, it sounds like it is going to be a bizarre joke... an Irish dwarf celestial dreamer? But it is actually a well-plotted, thoughtful story, despite the pages and pages of introspections and reminiscing. You know this character inside and out by the end of the book, a very overlooked and talented writer. I don't think I've ever heard anyone else ever mention this book.
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I've been reading EII for about an eon, which is unfortunate as I don't think dipping into it now and then is the best way to appreciate it. It has three narrative strands, one of which is 'written' by a Ukranian in bad English, with misused synonyms for comic effect. Continuity is thus not its strong point, and it justifies a good long session, rather than a few minutes at bedtime with half-shut eyes.
I'm currently at the point when I'm not entirely sure what's going on, but can't decide if it's because I've got lost, or because I'm not supposed to understand just now.
quote:Originally posted by herbs: I've been reading EII
It took me a while to work this one out. Maybe we should start giving novels kewl shorthand names, like T2 and ID4. Eh I'll think of an example soon, probably.
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I'm sure I've mentioned this before, and I'd be mildly surprised if you weren't already aware of it, but I'd whole heartedly recommend this pitch-black tragi-comic private-eye story to you Benway.
[ 21.10.2005, 08:50: Message edited by: Boy Racer ]
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Finished Glamorama. I really liked it. Ellis seemed to lose control in the last quarter, but it seemed appropriate, in that it mirrored the xanax haze that had enveloped Victor. I'd agree that it was frustrating, especially when everybody was telling him that everybody else was lying to him, with each revelation appearing and then being blown away so many times that in the end the truth seemed inconsequential. Overall though, I really can't see how anybody could dislike it. It's funny and cool and thought provoking. Similar to Fight Club in many ways, but perhaps more ambitious and less restrained. The violence and sex seemed more meaningful than in his other books, even if the shagging did tend to slip into the familiar cold descriptive pr0n as is the way with Ellis. It was good in Psycho, but a bit boring in Glamorama. Well, maybe not boring, but more like, it makes me a bit sad because they always seem to have a million orgasms, and I can mangage, like , two at best
I really liked the celeb world that Victor inhabits, and the dialogue was beautiful. The use of song lyrics, the idiotic strings of "whoa" and "cool, baby". The humour was like, a better, more painful elder brother to that of Zoolander, and I think it would be fair to compare the two - the cameos, the attack on the modeling industry, and the uneasy marrying of the worlds of professional celebrity and political activism.
There's almost something Roman about the orgies and the politics, the murder and the narcissism, and the use of Europe as a stage for slaughter and intrigue. The toned bodies, the relaxed sexual boundaries. That desire leads to death is inevitable. The level of corruption within Glamorama is so deep and wide that it has an apocalyptic feel, like these characters are going to be the ones who will one day bring down the Western world, punching a whole in civilization just using the power of their decadence and perversion. For me, that's what the book was about - the end of civilization.
It's clear that Ellis actually loves the world of celebs and bars and photoshoots and cocaine. As much as he attacks it, as he said in the talk he did recently, you can only satirise something that you are a part of, and enjoy. The attacks seems to be more about what it can do to people, rather than the lifestyle itself, and in this sense, it fuelled my own fantasies about being rich, screwing models, and committing murder. You can read it as a scathing critique, or an unrestricted fantasy, and I really like the way that he merges the two, causing you to search for the moral truths yourself, rather than ramming them down your throat like so many viagra powered cocks. There are moral extremes, but there are also places where it's not so clear.
Overall, I really enjoyed it, and preferred it to his less intricate earlier work. It's probably not as accesible as Psycho, but it's more mature, less sensational, and has more of an upbeat view of people in general.
So, it's a 'hit'. Sorry Louche
[ 24.10.2005, 07:30: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
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And, saltrock, I've thought about the book that I said I'd recommend, and I've decided on "hard boiled wonderland and the end of the world" by Haruki Murakami. It's my favourite of his, and it's the one that got me into him. It was either that or Kobe Abe's The Box Man, that being the strangest book I've ever read.
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: And, saltrock, I've thought about the book that I said I'd recommend, and I've decided on "hard boiled wonderland and the end of the world" by Haruki Murakami. It's my favourite of his, and it's the one that got me into him. It was either that or Kobe Abe's The Box Man, that being the strangest book I've ever read.
I shall go and order it from my local library.
I found another one I like at the weekend - The Drink and Dream Teahouse, Justin Hill. I think a lot of my books tend to be a bit on the lowbrow side for you lot though, looking at what you all read.
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I'd be interested to know what you think of that one Benway, I wasn't so impressed -have you read Cloud Atlas? Ghostwritten felt a lot less coherant to me...
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I'm not familiar with the author at all, and I know nothing about this book. Normally, I'd steer well clear of anything with a sunset/silhouetted tree on the front, because that suggests to me that there's going to be some kind of cod-philosophy involved. I realise that this is an unfounded prejudice; one that I look forward to dispelling.
And, I wouldn't hold your breath for an interesting opinion from me, Jack. I'm generally wrong about these things.
[ 24.10.2005, 08:57: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
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Much agreement with Benway's Glamorama review.
I didn't dig on Cloud Atlas much at all, for many of same the reasons that ben outlined in his rigorous mauling of it some time back (although obviously not the really clever, well read ones), but I really liked both Ghostwritten and Number 9 Dream.
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fair enough, Beenwah. I've been thinking I might try it again; I've been on an Ellis reread since the reading he gave. I liked Cloud Atlas; thought it was excvellent and wide ranging and massive in scope but the central link let it down a little for me.
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quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: And, I wouldn't hold your breath for an interesting opinion from me, Jack. I'm generally wrong about these things.
In the job I have any opinion about popular culture is to me manna from heaven. If you don't want the cod-philosophy, it's worth ploughing through the section where it's the most prevalent (you'll know which it is when you get there) as it's never as evident in the plot again.
Boy Racer, saltrock -what was it that you liked more about Ghostwritten than Cloud Atlas? Endemic mentioned the central link as something she found weak in the latter, but I rather liked that, felt it wasn't too intrusive and thought that Ghostwritten just rambled on until David Mitchell couldn't be arsed writing any more. The first five or so stories are superb though.
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Well, I feel pretty bad about this, because I can't even finish Ghostwritten. I really don't know what people see in this book. His style does NOT wildly differ between the stories as is so often said in reviews. It remains caught in fairly conservative and twee voice, and all the dialogue and internal thought sections feel forced and unlikely. The language doesn't change to fit the stories, and the stories themselves are fairly boring. I hated the one about the woman and the talking tree, and it's the one after that I've given up on, where a load of people are talking about nothing in Mongolia. It's not funny, it's not sharp, it isn't really saying anything, the characters are semi-formed and bland, but it's his voice that gets to me the most.
It's such a meek, quiet little thoughtful voice that it frustrates me to read it. It's like he doesn't really have any new ideas, but by using flowery prose he's hoping to create a 'beautiful' effect, but it's beautiful like the stationary at Liberty is beautiful.. In an conservative and obvious way that has long been left behind.
I don't mind ponderous and thoughtful. I'm not generally impatient.. A few reviewers have compared him to Murakami AND Auster, and they are like my two favourite authors, so I can see what he's doing. The looping of characters, metamorphisising the central theme, playing on the relationship between the geography of identity/personality and place/time are all stuff that I love. Mitchell loves it too, but he can't be assed with the stuff that actually makes a book readable, which is character. Every character seems like a facet of Mitchell, which is all the more apparent as he strains to make them different from each other. At least Auster, Murakami et al. recognise that to speculate about character, you have to take it from the perspective of one that you yourself understand, so readers can trust the narrator as he explores himself. Mitchell seems to be trying to run before he can walk here. They just blab on for a while, and then piss off.
I really tried, I really did, because I hate not finishing books, but he just got to me. Maybe it's not the best book to read straight after Brett Easton Ellis.
I've only got half way through, and I know that I'm well in the minority here, so my thoughts/comments aren't worth the bandwidth that they've been downloaded on. Sorry Saltrock
Article reproduced with kind permission from 'Read-a-long with Humpty Dumpty' Magazine
eta: I deleted something that made it look like I was having a go at saltrock, which I'm not.
[ 04.11.2005, 11:08: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: I hated the one about the woman and the talking tree, and it's the one after that I've given up on, where a load of people are talking about nothing in Mongolia.
This was the cod-philosophical part I mentioned (the tree and then the Mongolian section). What I hated so much about the tree was that it came straight after the investment banker (I think) which I probably enjoyed more than anything else in the book, so to get the worst bit after that was even more of a let down. On the plus side, you might enjoy Cloud Atlas since enjoyment of the two books seems to be mutually exclusive. He got the voices sorted out better in that one too (I think, at least).
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On the strength of this recommendation I bought Norwegian Wood on the way home on Friday. It's shaping up quite well so far - although nI haven't read that much of it yet. I wish I'd spent longer reading this weekend, rather than the hours and hours and hours I spent ploughing limply though the Gigabytes of pornography I downloaded from torrentspy.
Anyway, yeah. Off to a good start so far, but it's too early to tell whether you'll join the ranks of TMOers capable of recommending good books, like Black Mask and Dang65, or whether you'll fester in a thick puddle of shit along with ben and London and their copies of Generation X, Boxy an Star, and The Magus.
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interesting how both ben and london hardly post these days. Is this it then? Make or break? Does a thumbs down for Murakami mean that it's time for me to think about moving to new internet chatboard?
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I mildly enjoyed Ghostwritten, but certainly wouldn't compare it with Auster, or what I've read of Murakami (1 collection of short stories). I can't think of anyone who really compares to Auster. I didn't really concentrate on any underlying theme in Ghostwritten, I just took it as a bunch of short stories which had a few connecting points. I liked the bit talking about the different London tube lines, as it tallied with my view of the dread monstrosity that is the Northern Line. However, this kind of London-centric chatting used to really fuck me off as it's meaningless to non-London readers.
Some TMOers recommended Ali Smith, whose short stores I thoroughly enjoyed. Which is the best of her novels?
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I liked Ali Smith's Hotel World. Like the short stories is a bit confusing fey, but beguiling prose and you feel all kind of ethereal whilst reading it. The ending was not quite as good as the beginning promised, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it.
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I am currently in the middle of Joyce Carol Oates - The Tattooed Girl. I opened it with much expectation and it started well however it descended into brilliant observation of scene but characters too dull or self-absorbed or charactitured (sp!) to care about, and whilst at first the story hinted of dark secrets to come it has continued to hint at dark secret without actually revealing anything. Has anyone read it? Is it worth continuing with?
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quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: you'll fester in a thick puddle of shit along with ben and London and their copies of Generation X, Boxy an Star, and The Magus.
Shit, I feel a bit bad now, but I didn't know he was dead when I wrote that. There's nothing in the article that says me slagging off his book caused his death, but I can't imagine it helped.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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