When I was small, the queen of England celebrated her Silver Jubilee and there were street parties everywhere, the like of which I have never seen since, although I imagine they happened often once.
My street had banners and flags and balloons, and tables with games on, things like you might find in a fete, but less professionally done by my neighbours; hoopla, pomagne charlie, and a lucky dip where I got a bow and arrow and had to give it to my brother because he got a pencil sharpener and was crying.
There were events, races, egg and spoon that sort of thing. I was entered into a bike race. It was 1977, I was five years old.
There were bigger kids on the start line, They had Raleigh Grifters, Choppers, one even had a Racer. I was on a bike with 6inch wheels, I was the smallest kid there. There was a crowd either side of the road, the flag dropped and I pedaled as fast as my legs would allow.
It was about 50 metres to the finish line, I never looked back or to the side, I was 100% focused on the tape stretched across the road, I was stood up on the pedals, there was a lot of noise, the crowd shouting and clapping.
I went through the tape, I couldn't believe it, I had finished first against all the other big kids, it was the greatest moment of my life so far.
I stopped my bike and turned round to see the other competitors, strangely none of them had crossed the line yet, they were pedaling slowly, wobbling, trying to keep balance. I didn't understand.
The crowd were looking at me and ...laughing? I didn't understand.
Kay, an older girl from my street, came over to me and put her arm round me. "it was a slow race, last person to finish wins" she was laughing too.
----
Since then I never really liked to win, I preferred to be second place. I had the ability to drive a go-cart, or a motorbike, or a car or play most sports (except football and athletics) and be in with a pretty good chance of winning most times. But I would be happiest if I lost, not by much preferably, and even better because of a technical fault with the timing equipment or an unfortunate mechanical breakdown on the last lap.
If I won, and I was stood up there on the podium on the first place box, I always felt uncomfortable.
It's not the winning it the taking part that counts anyhow, right?
This is going to die on it's arse, but has there been anything in your life that maybe has had a lasting effect you, or alternatively have you ever done anything stupid which is burned into your memory with shame and embarrassment. Preferably in front of a large crowd of jeering people.
note: apologies in advance to thorn for doing "whimsical" and "nostalgic" in the same post.
posted
When have I ever complained about whimsy or nostalgia?
The memory the Tilde's post triggered for me was when I was also about five years old, competing in the school sports day. I was a year ahead at that school, so my experience of atheletics was one of being utterly, utterly outclassed by the other kids. I mean, even amongst my own age group I would have been a small, wimpy kid, but amongst kids a year older it was like pitching a rottweiler against Yippee the Backflipping dog.
Running the 75 metre sprint that day, I was just left for dust. It was like one of those dreams where you're legs won't move. The other kids just streaked ahead of me, even as I strained to make my legs move as fast as I could will them. It seemed like an impossible situation; there was nothing I could do to catch them.
There was a twofold compounding of this humiliation. Unwilling to let me have one of those heroic finishes where you're applauded just for going the distance, the PE teacher actually started the next the race before I crossed the finish line. This was the 75 metres, remember, so it's not like he would have had to wait long, even if I was a whopping thirty seconds behind the guy who came in fifth.
There's picture of this in my childhood home, showing all the eager parents looking to the start line, cheering, as I sprint past. My mother likes this photo, saying "It makes it look like you're way, way ahead of all the other kids." A bitter, humiliating defeat falsely revised as a spectacular victory. Awful, yet remarkable in the extent to which it forshadowed my life.
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quote:Originally posted by Thorn Davis: When have I ever complained about whimsy or nostalgia?
You made me realise that a lot of my stuff was whimsical when you pointed it out in that thread where I did a post on a piece of crumpled paper on the tube and scanned it here I just apologised for the nostalgia in case.
quote:Originally posted by Nathan Bleak: Reading that, I assumed it was some bit of writing from one of the failed London bombings the year before last, something they'd found in the guy's rucksack or something like that, which made it seem quite fascinating.
Sadly I don't have a camera or a camera phone with me, so I can't join in Tilde's pointless and irritatingly whimsical game.
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I've never really enjoyed organized competition, and have avoided most situations where it may have arisen. I don't think I've ever competed in a sporting event, or at least, I've certainly never entered a sport game with any intention of doing anything other than doing the bare minimum until it was over. Let others enjoy the win. As Tilde says, competing and winning draws attention to yourself, but chances are you will fail. It also increases your responsibility and expectations, which should both be kept at a minimum.
I suppose life in itself is inherently competitive, but I try and keep myself on the sidelines as much as possible. It's impossible to totally avoid competitive situations though. Almost every conversation will often have undertones of competition. If I finish a day and on reflection find that I was trying to show off, impress others, or if I was basking in the glow of accomplishment, then I'll put in a few hours of silent internal self-abuse as I lie in bed, to remind myself that I'm a pathetic worm.
I've been in teams that have won pub quizzes before though, and I suppose I've enjoyed that. I'm all about the team, where you can melt away into the social.
That's neither nostalgic nor whimsical. Sorry everybody. Hopefully the next post will be from dang65.
[ 23.01.2008, 05:56: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: I'll put in a few hours of silent internal self-abuse as I lie in bed,
Isn't this the opposite of what you mean? Surely this would involve lying there thinking "You're amazing Dr Benway. You're the king. You're the greatest."?
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posted
Anyway. As a coda to my sports day humiliation, I remember when I was 11 - at the same school, with the same PE teacher - I won the hundred metre breast-stroke at the swimming gala, beating all the kids from the swimming team. The teacher announced over the tannoy "Incredible to see Ian Evans winning, there, as he's not normally very good at sport."
I know this all boils down to PE Teacher = wanker, which is a bit like saying sun = hot, but as no-one else is contributing except to point out how individualistic they are to not have anything to contribute, I thought I may as well throw it in there.
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quote:Originally posted by Dr. Benway: I'll put in a few hours of silent internal self-abuse as I lie in bed,
Isn't this the opposite of what you mean? Surely this would involve lying there thinking "You're amazing Dr Benway. You're the king. You're the greatest."?
No, I mean like, going through the day and picking out the places where I started showing off or trying to 'beat' people at things, and chastising myself for being a cock.
posted
I can't really equate to the 'wanting to lose' thing as being American, there is some sort of switch in our DNA that says we have to win. There is no 2nd place, only 1st and losers.
However, I remember about 6 I was in some sort of play for my school and I was a horse on a carousel and had to say, "But your a real horse now!" as the premise was one of my merry-go-round horses became a real horse.
All during rehearsals I was scared shitless of standing up in front of people and talking to the point where I was waffling about not doing it. In fact, right up to the 'curtain call' I was still not going to do it, but my teacher told me that if I didn't do it, she'd let Tonya do it. I hated Tonya so I said I would get over it. Fast forward to the play, due to my nerves and hatred of Tonya, I shouted from the top of my lungs in some sort of 6 year old pseudo-grownup voice, "BUT YOU'RE A REAL HORSE NOW" to which the entire audience fell about laughing, compounding my stage-fright to the point of nearly fainting.
Since that day, the idea of standing up and doing anything that is akin to public speaking still fills me with dread. Oddly, playing American football in front of thousands of people, televised to thousands more (highschool state championships) didn't bother me in the least. In fact, the cheering/jeering just made me want to play better and hit harder. :shrug:
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posted
I was bobbins at everything sportwise at school - my father was quite a sportsman winning trophies for football, cricket and a host of other sports, but me, even with a classic footballing surname as I have could not kick a ball to save my life. I was always picked last when teams were chosen, and often with the resentment and hurt only a kid can issue without comprehension of the pain in inflicted on the child who just wanted to play. I even remember once being given to the team as they didn't want me, ending up playing a team of 12 against a team of 10. I have a lot of painful memories of school.
However, by the time I got to comprehensive school it wasn't so bad - we'd invented our own game - double touch - which was kind of a version of rollerball without the skates played in a tennis court. Quite an ingenious game as it happened mixing violence, skill, trickery and lots of shouting. And basically anyone with an ounce of common sense could win it.
Also by the time I got to the third year our games teacher stopped being a bastard, and I guess bonded a bit better with you as you got older - gave a bit more respect, so I made a bit of effort. And one day, I guess a throwback from being bullied a bit as a youngster, I discovered something. I could run. Not fast, but certainly far. Cross country running I would come in about 3rd or 4th out of 50, and suddenly this was noticed by the games teachers, and there was even mentions of representing my house on sports day.
The one thing I remember was running the 1500 one day. I just set off with the others, and more for the kick out of it took the lead for a bit. Then I extended it a bit more, then I just pulled out all the stops and giving it my all. At 1000 meters I was half a lap ahead - the games teacher ran towards me to bolster me on, but the others started the sprint - I couldn't muster any more speed and on the final straight was beaten by 2 others to come in third. Closest I had ever come to winning anything sporting at all.
About 2 weeks later I discovered fags and thus ended my sporting career.
Of course the greatest athletic story of coming in last was one from the Army which I told some time ago, and won't bore you with again, but that was my moment
posted
They've even found a way to extend school sports day humiliation into adulthood now, you'll be dismayed to learn. It's in the form of the Dads' Race and Mums' Race.
I remember being at the absolute peak of physical fitness a few years ago, regularly cycling long distances at speed and generally a fuck sight slimmer than I am now. I absolutely hammered it down the field... only to find that I finished second to last. And the guy behind me was still smoking a pipe as he strolled across the line in his sandals and socks and panama hat.
It's my firm belief that theotherdads spend every weekend of the year at some kind of extreme training camp just to prepare for this one day so they don't totally embarrass their children. The guy with the panama hat was probably just a passing nutter or something.
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posted
That reminds me of a pleasant school afternoon, aged about 10 watching the cricket team play in the Sons vs Fathers match. The cricket team was basically the same kids as the soccer team, the rugby team and the swimming team. Anyway. This kid Charlie was up to bat against his father, Dr Jowett. You'd expect be some kind of leeway, when 40 year old men are playing against 10 year olds. But Dr Jowett hammered down the pitch and uncurled a bouncing, spinning slingshot that hit the ground precisely, and ricocheted up to smash his son in the face. It made me laugh then, and still makes me chuckle now, the image of Charlie on his knees crying, spitting blood and teeth, people rushing to help him while his dad appealed to the umpire with "That counts as 'out', right?" Anyway. Charlie's a doctor now too, so I guess things worked out alright for him.
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posted
I’ve never really been physically competitive. I do remember school sports days, and PE lessons and whatnot, where I was forced into situations where I suppose I was actually competing in one sense or another, but I never really took part in any meaningful way. The notion that if I applied myself I might actually become the best at something never even occurred to me. As far as I was concerned there were some kids who were good at football, some who could run fast, and then there were people who just weren’t any good at physical stuff, and that was that.
The closest I ever actually got to any sense of achievement at anything physical when I was young, was with swimming, which seemed to be about the only thing I was actually any good at. When taking swimming lessons we, as a group, were told to do a certain number of lengths in a certain stroke, etc etc, and for some reason it was always really important to me to be the first person to finish. I don’t know if any of the other kids were actually competing in such a manner though. Eventually, I started doing distance badges, and found that if I really tried, I could swim for reasonable distances. 600m was my longest although I think I could have probably gone on for 1000m if I hadn’t gotten bored with it.
Other than physical stuff, I did enter a talent contest at school. Me and another kid, also named Chris. You could do whatever you liked, some kids danced, some sang, a couple even played musical instruments. Chris and I did improvised stand up comedy. When I say improvised, of course I mean we just didn’t have an act and made it up as we went along. Suffice to say, it didn’t go well. I was hugely unpopular anyway, Chris was ginger, both of us were shy, and probably 90% of our ‘act’ consisted of us playing on the fact we both had the same name. When it came time for people to vote for us, we only got one vote, and I think that was from one girl who felt sorry for us. I still can’t really get my head round it to this day, because I’m no good at speaking in front of groups of people, and was a massive recluse when I was young, so what on earth possessed me to enter into a talent competition I don’t know. Of course, that was the end of my brief stand up comedy career, although Chris and I did go on to ‘write’ a number of short ‘plays’ which we performed in front of our parents. These were generally grossout comedies involving surgery and bad hygiene. Alas, Chris moved away and that was the end of that.
More recently than that, as a teenager I spent many months learning how to trampoline. I went two evenings a week, working through various routines and such with one on one tuition. This came to an end when my instructor said she wanted me to enter a national trampolining competition, and it all just seemed too heavy to contemplate. I wish I had done it now, actually. I went along to the competition because another girl I knew was competing, and there were only about 4 people in our category. I could have gotten at least a silver I think.
And that’s not the only time I shyed away from competition when I was good at something. I used to be excellent at rugby. Although I was shorter than most kids in my year, by my teenage years I had gained a more muscular (and I must add, fatter) physique than many of my classmates so it was great fun playing rugby against all these lanky kids who toppled so easily. It wasn’t even that I liked to win so much as just loved running into people and hurling them to the ground. They called me the Terminator because I could still be running along while having several kids hanging off me, I absolutely would not stop. So when my school were putting together a proper team to compete with other schools, my teacher naturally said I should go to the tryouts. Again though, I didn’t turn up, I didn’t want to compete.
But despite all of that, I’m probably one of the most competitive people I know. Probably because I’m just so bad at just about everything, so when I find something I’m good at, I really really enjoy showing off how good I am at it. I’m more or less totally talking about computer games here. I’ve been known to spend hours upon hours practicing fighting games just to be able to beat people who I know are decent. To this day, I don’t think there was ever a person who was able to actually beat me on Soul Caliber 2, and as for games like Gran Turismo, I still sometimes load it up and practice nowadays just in case I’m ever called upon to back up the claims I made so long ago about my ability.
When I discovered multiplayer computer games it was like finally finding my calling in life, the one thing I could really apply myself to. I’m not an amazing physical specimen and despite the fact I’m learning that I’m not as physically limited as I thought I was, it’s certainly clear I will never be a professional athlete. But I can game with a professional level of dedication, putting in hours and hours of practice just for the sheer enjoyment of beating other people. And I don’t just mean winning, I mean absolutely destroying the competition. I don’t just want to win, I want to humiliate my opponents by beating them spectacularly. Unfortunately because of this, people tend not to want to play games with me. And I refuse to play people at games I’ve not played before. That’s probably all really unhealthy in a way isn’t it.
But really what it boils down to is the fact that as a kid, I was taught by my parents that some people are good at stuff and others are bad at stuff, and if you’re not that good there’s no point in trying to be better at it, just enjoy taking part. It’s a completely negative way of thinking and if I ever have kids they’re going to learn from day one that they should always try to be the best at everything they do. Taking part is only worthwhile if you’re trying to win.
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quote:Originally posted by sabian: I can't really equate to the 'wanting to lose' thing as being American, there is some sort of switch in our DNA that says we have to win.
It's pretty much the complete opposite in the UK isn't it. It must be a really lonely place being a winner, with everyone looking at you like you're some kind of sad freak. Even the ones that are really good and end up winning World Cups for us and making load of cash are carefully monitored and ridiculed in the national press if they wear the wrong clothes or put on a tiny bit of weight when they finally retire. Winners are definitely losers round these parts.
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posted
Yeah, winning really is a bit of a sin here isn't it. It's like, it's one thing to be very good at something, but winning is just showing off. Although there is one thing worse than that - saying you're going to win, and then losing. That's the worst thing you can possibly do.
Actually, in a way, it's the best thing you can do. I mean, it's what everyone really wants to see, isn't it. If you've gome some arrogant chumpy, or group of chumpies, and they're all like "we're awesome, we will definitely win" then while most people would claim to support them, they'd all be secretly rooting for them to fail. Just so they can lay the boot in.
Want an example? Look at how monumentally unpopular Lewis Hamilton became when he started winning races, then the glee with thich papers reported that he had failed to win the championship. It was amazing.
posted
Yeah, Britain as a society probably hates winners because every single element of life is a competition, and one man's success is everybody else's failure. I think what it doesn't like especially is people who go out of their to win things, but on a day to day basis, it's all a game. People are walking around thinking they win at fashion, at being paid, at being a good mum or dad, at facebook, and at ownership of goods, as examples. As long as you function on a basic societal level, you're playing. It's enough to make you want to go and live in a cave.
I've just fallen back into stating the obvious haven't I. sorry.
[ 23.01.2008, 08:29: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
posted
True, but the moment it becomes a problem is when people start talking about trying to win at something. We all know that we're constantly trying to be better than people in all sorts of ways, but when you actually vocalise it, make it clear that it's your goal to actually beat people at something, then you stop being likeable.
I suppose there are exceptions. I mean, look at Tim Henman, always trying always failing, with a fanatical following. But then Henman was always pretty humble wasn't he. And I bet he wouldn't be half as popular if he was actually really successful.
posted
we need darryn to implement some kind of post rating feature, then we could really ratchet up the tension here, and watch as posters are favoured, then destroyed, by their peers.
posted
I came second in fancy dress competition when I was about 2 - and although I have no recollection of it, I think this set me up to never want to win at anything - as a result I'm incredibly uncompetive, and as soon as a thing becomes a contest I lose all interest. That's why your cruel words about me losing at TMO is water off a ducks back.
ET-grammar, innit, and spelling
[ 23.01.2008, 08:44: Message edited by: Benny the Ball ]
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Actually, I was going to post today that as I haven't been a great poster of late, and that I have other things happening, with the baby due soon, I should probably hang up my spurs and bid you all farewell, all the best, it's been wonderful, but what with the Joker dying I forgot all about it.
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quote:Originally posted by dang65: It's pretty much the complete opposite in the UK isn't it.
It's because you reward losers. When England lost the World Cup, they were still given a ticker tape parade. Henman has groupies. It goes on.
In the States, it's not tolerated at all. So much so, it even filters through to the 'business' side of things. Our football (american of course) games will not be televised locally unless the stadium reaches capacity. So, for years Cleveland Browns never had a game televised because they were so shit, they couldn't inspire people to pay for tickets. Kind of a collective, "sort your shit out and get better or you'll bankrupt yourselves by not having sponsorship/advert money" .
This even filters down to even school sports. I remember playing football and if the team lost the game the entire team wouldn't be spoken too by anyone else in the school for days afterwards, even ridiculed by some teachers. And that's just a normal game. If you lost the Homecoming game or missed the championships, you were like scum. This was why so many of us played multiple sports so if we fucked up in football in the autumn, we could make up for it in the winter by kicking ass in hockey or wrestling, baseball or basketball in spring. Even the poncy sports like soccer and swimming were affected this way. Nearly to a person, no one gave a shit whether or not it was a soccer or swim meet, but if they lost, they weren't immune to the abuse that followed.
When people here whinge about the World Cup or the like and complain that these teams should win considering the money that gets thrown at them I just giggle because if you were getting paid £50k a week win or lose, there's no incentive to do any better.
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posted
what are people unenthusiastic about, benny? Anyway, the flipside of the UK weary cynicism is the American earnestness that makes you wonder if people aren't idiots.
eta: I'm not suggesting that Americans are idiots. It just sometimes seems like they either hold a lot of shit in, or really don't see the dismal reality of what's going on.
[ 23.01.2008, 09:07: Message edited by: Dr. Benway ]
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I work in a industry full of people that get paid loads of money and then spend the entire time moaning about every possible aspect of the job, which is depressing. I'm actually really enthusiastic about my job and love it completely, so to have to sit with people that agree to a contract and then spend the length of the contract moaning about the contract... well...I just need some time around people who enjoy what they do.
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quote:Originally posted by Benny the Ball: to have to sit with people that agree to a contract and then spend the length of the contract moaning about the contract... well...I just need some time around people who enjoy what they do.
Well, I don't know about your work colleagues, but speaking for myself, there's nothing I enjoy more than moaning about contract.
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posted
I've always been hopeless as sport, mainly due to the dread of letting people on the team down. No doubt a hangover from the hell that is school netball. I always thought that I was totally uncompetitive, until a friend pointed out that at things I see myself as good as, from Pictionary to pub quizzes to singing, I do like to, if not win, at least not lose. I like being nearly the best.
Anyone who's good at sport is a bit of a freak. If you ask me.
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posted
While many of you look down your nose at those who are good at sports or those who are competitive... Is it an all encompassing sort of derisiveness, or is it ok to get a 1st at Uni or 10 A Levels?
I ask because whilst I hear nothing but, "look at that wanker Beckham... Yeah, he's good at football, but he sounds like a girl!"... These same people will be the ones going, "Well, yes, it's no surprise really that Bob's a bin man, he did only get 2 GCSE's!" or, "my son got a 1st from Oxford. He's made the village proud!"
Can't have it both way folks! Either people are wankers for being good, or they aren't... Cherry picking is for illegal immigrants!
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posted
I think it might be that people who win at being clever can transfer this 'clever' skill to being good at life, whereas people who are good at booting a ball down a field are just good at, er, booting a ball down a field.
Though it's not as if people who are good at being clever get an easy ride. See: bullying at school, anti-intellectual bullshit, er...
Not talking to a school team because they lose seems a bit harsh. Hardly encouraging any enjoyment in the actual sport, or indeed physical activity. If America isn't careful, it will get an obesity problem.
I know several people who were the dog's in school, but were social retards to the nth degree.
One is currently working in some sort of admin job and lives with is parents whilst trying to divorce his wife who he has 4 children with, would have been 5 but he had the snip so the new baby was a REAL surprise.
The other is a stoner who only leaves the house when his supply of Doritos runs low.
Sure, there are sports people who struggle to make change out of a pound, but there is a vast proportion who do well in life because of sport. Whether it taught them to be confident or out going, or they realised that their 'career' in sports was finite, they planned for the future too.
I don't know. I just find it funny how things can be dismissed out of hand because someone "can kick a ball". Personally, I think the personal and social benefits of sports, in the long term, are better than learning how to use an abacus.
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quote:Originally posted by herbs: Not talking to a school team because they lose seems a bit harsh. Hardly encouraging any enjoyment in the actual sport, or indeed physical activity. If America isn't careful, it will get an obesity problem.
See, now you are just employing some armchair Jeremy Kyle-esque pysochology to it.
The obesity problem is because we live in a world where creature comfort is the ultimate goal. If you are trying correlate pressure to do well and the obesity problem, Britain would look like a white Ethiopia.
What it did do is encourage people to try their very best at things. And if they were found wanting, they tried harder next time. 'Character building' is essential to growing up, otherwise you will forever think that mediocrity is good enough.
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posted
This is the country that gave the world Eddie "The Eagle" Edwards... Enough said.
I was pretty competitive in sports, and often gave every ounce even in those activities where I was half the size of everybody else. And back then, I was half the size of everybody else. I could run, duck and weave pretty well though - so I was usually thrown out on the wing when playing rugby. I somehow managed to avoid being crushed flat, even in ankle-deep mud where movement was particularly difficult.
So no, I cannot remember any particular sporting humiliation - but this doesn't mean I escaped my school days without being dreadfully embarrassed.
The most notable incident took place during an English lesson, where we were all supposed to be taking down notes on Thomas Hardy's The Mayor of Casterbridge. Mr. Donnan's English Lit. lessons bored me terribly in any case given that the books on the required list were dull as ditchwater, but Hardy's classic - apologies to the man and his millions of fans and admirers - was enough to send me into a semi-catatonic state.
One day, the inevitable happened and I dropped off into a sleepy haze.
I was awakened by a volley of scrunched up paper balls smacking against my head - the key instigator being old Donnan himself, who was launching them like Geoff Capes on speed. I could never live it down, to the point where the story has cropped up at every class gathering since.
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