posted
tell 'em you'd love the job and would expect to be paid at least the same as everyone else doing that role, but probably more because of how ace you are (give examples of being ace)
posted
Then Person B should mention at interview that they know the job is worth at least 24k and that they would consider it demotivating to take the job for anything less than that, in fact, considering that they (Person B) perform better than any of their colleagues (Hem-hem... Person A we're talking about you) you feel you should start at 25k as you would undoubtedly be picking up the slack from day one.
Person M (Mart) currently freelances with comfy hourly rate. Person M has been offered new role, which is effectively a promotion, with tons of possibilities and opportunity (i.e. if M works his knackers off he'll earn more money in the future and will have a job for life, pension, etc.).
Offer for new role is a full-time job (i.e. not freelancing), but at considerably less than what M gets as a freelancer.
M can decline the role and carry on as he is, but this would probably disappoint the bosses, who would no doubt find a way to make him regret not taking new job offer.
M has been told that the pay on offer for new job is basically non-negotiable.
not...
You reached over with your hand and knocked my Jap over
posted
quote:Originally posted by mart: What about this one:
Person M (Mart) currently freelances with comfy hourly rate. Person M has been offered new role, which is effectively a promotion, with tons of possibilities and opportunity (i.e. if M works his knackers off he'll earn more money in the future and will have a job for life, pension, etc.).
Offer for new role is a full-time job (i.e. not freelancing), but at considerably less than what M gets as a freelancer.
M can decline the role and carry on as he is, but this would probably disappoint the bosses, who would no doubt find a way to make him regret not taking new job offer.
M has been told that the pay on offer for new job is basically non-negotiable.
M wonders what to do.
You (should) always get more money (per hour) as a freelancer because you're not working fixed hours. However in a permanent position you get paid regardless of whether you are working every hour or not. You can't expect freelance rates for a perm postition can you?
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not...
You reached over with your hand and knocked my Jap over
posted
quote:Originally posted by mart:
quote:Originally posted by not...: You can't expect freelance rates for a perm postition can you?
No, of course. I just find it odd that I get a promotion and a cut in earnings at the same time.
Sucks. Relative job security versus more freedom and higher hourly rate. Plus you feel that if you refuse you could lose the client anyhow. Difficult one.
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posted
A pay cut is the worse thing ever, but really you don't want to be out of a contract wishing you'd have taken it. Obviously you know this already though mart, so I'll shut up.
not...
You reached over with your hand and knocked my Jap over
posted
I'd say to mart, I think you just have to weigh up the pros and cons. Forgetting about the hourly rate for a moment are you acually going to be less well off after a month of permanent work than you would be freelancing. If you are, is it a substantial amount. If it is you'd probably be better off freelancing. Although if you lose this client how much worse off will you be? On the other hand you're being kind of blackmailed, plan b - go down the pub. Wind yourself up a bit, go home drink some more and then leave an abusive message on the clients ansaphone. Somehow it will all work out
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posted
I was approached by my 2nd main prof yesterday with the words, "we've got a problem." The problem is that one of the dept secretaries starts maternity leave today and the powers that be have only just realised that perhaps, PERHAPS they need to think about reallocating her duties/getting a temp in/acting like management. I have been asked if I mind looking after a couple of her profs. I'd really rather not, but I have to show willing because a) I got a rather tasty bonus this time last year and b) I will need references in the near future.
Money was not mentioned. Is it normal to expect some extra remuneration in this kind of situation, or is it the kind of "all pitch in together in an emergency" thing? I hate getting sordid and mercenary, but equally planning ahead for maternity leave is not my problem.
Wochoo think?
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posted
"We all need to pitch in in an emergency" is surely just a psychological trick they're using to get you to do more work for no money. It might be different if they were talking about working late during a busy week in the run up to a really important conference - you know - an unusual scenario. That's what i would call 'pitching in in an emergency'. But using it to get you to take on an entire new role on an ongoing basis is whack. It's not a one off, it's them either being stingy, or disorganised, or both.
Also, it's not 'mercenary' to expect to get paid for doing your job.
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posted
Mart - is what they're offering you for the permanent position a competitive market rate?
Vogon - there's no fixed answer to this. If you feel you could do the extra work without letting things slip and you have a good relationship with your bosses (good bonus indicates this may be the case) then I would ask for some "acting up" extra wedge to cover the mat leave. Have a figure in mind (15% of gross perhaps?) and ask them for this specifically. Be prepared for them to say they have no budget for this etc but just keep backing up your case with examples of the good work you do and the alternative cost of getting and training a temp.
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quote:Originally posted by Dedalus: Mart - is what they're offering you for the permanent position a competitive market rate?
I don't know - any ideas how I could find out? I'm still new to this country and to having a proper job so it's all a bit forrin to me.
I can give figures if you like, but people seem to get sniffy about revealing how much they earn so I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't.
Why is that? Why do people not like revealing their salary? I mean, even among friends? Is that worth a new thread? How happy would you be to tell people how much you earn? How interested would you be to learn what others earn?
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posted
Mart - search for similar jobs online and see what they're offering. Industry sector is likely to have an impact on this (by which I mean some industries pay more than others), but it'd give you an idea. Also - if a job's offering say £35k for someone with a couple of years' experience, and they're offering you £30 because you're basically a good egg but you haven't done this before, then don't be surprised. Employers will pay a premium for experience. This shouldn't of course prevent you from saying "ah, but similar roles attract higher salaries" etc and justifying it that way.
There's also no reason why you can't be upfront with them and say you're not massively happy about losing so much monthly income to take the permanent role. (obv if they're offering more than other similar jobs you may struggle with this) They'll probably come back with all the stuff about a more secure role, other benefits etc, but you should just repeat your concerns and tell them how much less it works out to per month.
One thing to make sure you do when you're negotiating this sort of thing is remember to SHUT UP when you've asked for the money and justified it. Let them speak, then counter their arguments and justify your claim. Just don't keep talking as you'll begin to say things like "I understand that budgets are tight" and "of course it's not essential" and so on and they'll just laugh. I know I would.
posted
Also, check out the relevant salary survey for your role and sector. See how much less you're getting paid than you should be, fuckerz!!1!
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i think i might be getting quite a good deal, actually. was told today i'd be getting a car allowance of 15 per cent of salary, which strikes me as alright, as it bumps up my pay by about, ooh, 15 per cent.
and yeah, london, one of the rockingest things about accepting this job is that i will get paid for being ill! and going on holiday! never ever had that before. i think my health might take a turn for the worse once i've signed on the dotted line.
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posted
15% for a car sounds about right. Remember though, although this raises your gross income, your bonus (if you get one) is likely to be a percentage of your salary alone.
If you're getting a car allowance - are they expoecting you to do some travelling for work? If so they should be giving you some £ per business mile which you should claim back in your expenses. You should keep a record of how many miles this is, as at the end of the tax year you'll need to include this in your self-assessment. If your employer gives you less than 40p per mile you can claim the difference against tax and get a nice lump sum. Phone your tax office and they'll sort you out with the relevant forms.
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H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
are you in HR, Dedalus? *makes sign of vampire-warding cross*
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posted
Dedalus, you sound like you know your shit. Could you sort my life out for me please?
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posted
I'm not in HR, no. I've just asked for more money at work a few times, claimed milage against tax and so forth. Bit dull in reality.
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quote:Originally posted by mart: Why is that? Why do people not like revealing their salary? I mean, even among friends?
Because if you earn more than they do you lose the right to complain about having no money for the rest of your life. This doesn't seem too bad until 'friends' invite you to a shit-yet-expensive activity organised well in advance (hen party, "Mary Poppins - The Musical") and instead of saying "I'm sorry I can't afford it I don't get paid very much" you need to say "I'm sorry I'd rather jump off a cliff"
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posted
Yeah I'll get 40p per mile for carness. Which is good isn't it? I mean petrol's way cheaper than that, so you come out on top, don't you. I know there's wear and tear and breakdowns and all that jazz but, really, it's winner isn't it. Getting 40p to drive a mile in your own car. And 40p to drive back again! That's almost a quid.
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posted
40p per mile is only for business mileage. If you're based in an office, and you drive from home to your office and back, that's personal mileage, bucko. Doesn't matter if you live 250 miles away, if it's your "usual place of work" then you getting there and back is your own affair.
posted
That's a good point, Jack V. The shit-yet-expensive hen/stag weekend seems to be an escalating curse.
The salary thing is interesting. I think I actually only know Thorn's (which is relevant as we've flat shared in 3 different places) and one of our mates, and that was in the context of "I've found out what X earns and it'll make you puke."
I'm still friends with a lot of girls from uni, inc 3 from the same course as me. Therefore salary comparison is particuarly pertinent as we all started from the same starting block, theoretically. I already know they're more successful than me in terms of career/house/boyfwend/general life advancement, so I don't really want the depressing news of how much further ahead they are in terms of hard cash income.
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posted
Do you have a car, mart? Sometimes when companies give car allowances they have specifications that the car must meet (less than 4 years old, 4 doors etc) to prevent people rocking up to clients in purple and green 2CVs. Plus, if you haven't had car insurance before, it's going to be expensive, so take that into account. Also, check with your employer if you need to get insurance cover for your business mileage, as sometimes policies won't cover you for it unless you specifically ask for it.
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