posted
On that Nimrod Gently Awards thread I was going to say, "Welcome, dweller on the threshold" having assumed "dweller on the threshold" to refer to someone who is perpetually waiting on the doorstep and never comes in. But I thought I'd better check that's the proper definition of the term and Googled and found myself waist deep in a Mystic Meginess of complexity.
As far as I can make out, a Dweller on the Threshold is supposed to be the entity (perhaps soul?) of a person's previous incarnation which has not quite disintegrated and is therefore drawn to the living person. It may have evil connotations - like it carries all the bad bits of your previous existence. The preference seems to be not to meet your Dweller on the Threshold if at all possible.
You have to wade through a hell of a lot of mumbo jumbo to even get to that simplified conclusion though.
So, I was wondering what phrases or concepts other people might have come across which they never knew the proper meaning of before. Everyone knows what Schadenfreude means, for example, but that sort of thing would count as well.
Posts: 8467
| IP: Logged
posted
Oh yeah, another one is Taal Zamaan, which is the title of a very lovely Transglobal Underground song which I never knew the meaning of. I was on a train the other day and this very fidgety chap sat opposite me. He had "Islam" tattooed on the back of his hand. He was talking to anyone and everyone and asking for spare change. I asked him if he spoke Arabic and said I'd give him 20p if he could translate Taal Zamaan for me. And apparently it means "long life". I'm assuming that's a blessing you give to people, rather than that the song is about UHT milk, but anyway, that was 20p well spent I thought. I was hoping to get his email address so I could get him to translate all the other Transglobal Underground songs I don't understand, but he got off next stop before I could ask.
Posts: 8467
| IP: Logged
posted
Ah the latter has just reminded me of last week - there is a phrase in Japanese at the end of The Tubes White Punks on Dope which had been bugging me for years what it meant. A few days ago my mates from Electric Eel Shock had stopped for a couple of nights and I managed to get them to listen.I was quite dissapointed to discover they thought it was just an old detergent commercial from the 70's.
posted
Y'know if I had spent a little bit more of my hard earned on a Gigabit network I'd not have to read this shit. Instead I'm waiting for what seems like an age for stuff to transfer from this place to that.
posted
"Cheap at half the price" - this phrase fucking vexes me. It's either a statement of the utterly obvious - ie. most things are 'cheap' at half price - or it's actually meant to say "that would (still) be cheap at twice the price" and has somehow been muddled up over the years, to the point where people parrot something that's technically meaningless.
Posts: 8657
| IP: Logged
posted
I recently discovered this gorgeous etymological fact. You know when you learn something new and you grab at it thinking, man, this is totally going to impress the chicks. Like, I don't know, I remember once I met Froopyscot and he created the figure of an animal from a piece of twisted wire and dangled it from the rim of a glass I was drinking from. I remember thinking 'wow that's ace! I wish I was a dude so I could totally impress the ladies by doing stuff like that!' Well, when I read this particular definition I had that same feeling, like, this is a lovely little nugget of fact. I could already see myself in the future, imparting this fact into the tipped-up admiring faces of my soon-to-be lovers. And so with no further ado, the etymology of the word tawdry IS:
quote:The main sense of tawdry, dating from the seventeenth century, is 'showy and cheap; gaudy'. This sense is a derivation of the earlier noun, meaning 'lace worn by women about the throat'--a common fashion accessory in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries--itself a shortening of the mid-sixteenth-century tawdry lace.
This tawdry lace is short for Saint Audrey lace. Saint Audrey was a queen of Northumbria and the patron saint of Ely who died in A.D. 679; her name in Old English was Aethelthryth. According to tradition, Audrey died of a throat tumor, which she considered just punishment for her youthful fondness for showy necklaces. Thus, Saint Audrey's lace. (The lace was sold at an annual fair commemorating St. Audrey's in Ely, which probably strengthened the association.)
H1ppychick
We all prisoners, chickee-baby. We all locked in.
posted
I knew this one, and I thought I'd share it because it's just lovely:
old hat
"out of date," first recorded 1911. As a noun phrase, however, it had a different sense in 18c. The "Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue" (1796) defines it as, "a woman's privities, because frequently felt."
isn't that awesome?
-------------------- i'm expressing my inner anguish through the majesty of song Posts: 4243
| IP: Logged
posted
"Glamour" is a nice one, in that it means a magical spell ~ I picked it up from relatively obscure Celtic adventure strip Slaine, but it was unfortunately then used repeatedly in Sandman, so I expect lots of people who own figurines and ankhs know it now, too.
"As large as life and twice as natural" was originally "as large as life and just as natural." "Brand" new was originally "bran" new. This sounds like one of those ~ what was it? Meccano? myths about "box standard", but is TRUE.
The phrase "it was the least I could do" remains a bit troublesome for me... because it is, of course, admitting you did the minimum to help.
-------------------- pudgy little saucepot Posts: 738
| IP: Logged
posted
Good ones there. Nice. I too have trouble getting my head round "cheap at half the price". I'd kind of taken it to be a slightly sarcastic comment: "I got this shirt for fifty quid." "Nice. Cheap at half the price." Meaning, you've been done mate. But I don't suppose it gets used like that so it doesn't work really does it.
My partner used another of her weird mixed up phrases last night when she referred to our 5-year-old as "sharp as a button". Presumably a squelch of "sharp as a new pin" and "on the button"?? Who knows.
The rather bland "parting shot", for a cutting comment made just as you leave a discussion, should really be Parthian Shot of course. Which is a war tactic where the Parthians pretended to retreat on their horses, then suddenly turned round in their saddles and fired arrows back into the persuing enemy, who were effectively unarmed because they were holding the reins of their own horses.
Conversely, you sometimes see people use "under weigh" for a ship leaving anchor and moving off, thinking that it's related to weighing anchor. But the correct term is "under way", so "under weigh" is a mistakenly clever clever phrase, whilst "Parthian Shot" is a genuine clever clever phrase.
Posts: 8467
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by wonderstarr: The phrase "it was the least I could do" remains a bit troublesome for me... because it is, of course, admitting you did the minimum to help.
Yes, but it's good old British modesty isn't it. "Thank you so much for cleaning the carpets, washing the bathroom, performing a triple bypass on my uncle, saving our family from bankruptcy and discovering a sustainable source of clean fuel." "Oh - oh that? It was nothing. It was nthe least I could do."
It's only an 'admission' if - say - your partner spent all Sunday slaving over dinner, while you played Nintendo, wanked, and then eventually put a spoon or something on the table and they looked at you and rolled their eyes and went "Thanks so much for putting the spoon on the table." If you then turned round and said "It was the least I could do", then you'll probably get smashed in the face with a piping hot skillet.
quote:Originally posted by wonderstarr: The phrase "it was the least I could do" remains a bit troublesome for me... because it is, of course, admitting you did the minimum to help.
This one's ok though isn't it? It's supposed to be reassuring, saying "it was no trouble, don't feel that you inconvenienced me at all," even if the person obviously did go out of their way to help.
quote:Originally posted by Nathan Bleak: Yes, but it's good old British modesty isn't it. "Thank you so much for cleaning the carpets, washing the bathroom, performing a triple bypass on my uncle, saving our family from bankruptcy and discovering a sustainable source of clean fuel." "Oh - oh that? It was nothing. It was the least I could do."
Yees, but the logical next step is that you might as well have done more to help, really. That the person you helped would have the right to say "oh, well in that case, do you mind going out for milk too?"
Perhaps what I've done there is get confused by a stand-up comedian who spent 10 minutes interrogating the phrase as if it was ludicrous, you know, complete with absurd situations and sceptical expressions and such ~ and I've been persuaded by that. I expect you could do the same with a lot of phrases.
quote:Originally posted by wonderstarr: "Phyrric victory" is also a nice phrase from the classics, which I learned from comics.
Plutarch relates in a report by Dionysius:
"The armies separated; and, it is said, Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him..."
I read The Brothers Karamazov because Blue Beetle said that it was his favourtie book in issue 3 of Justice League - who says comics don't learn you nothing.
-------------------- If Chuck Norris is late, time better slow the fuck down Posts: 2740
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by wonderstarr: Yees, but the logical next step is that you might as well have done more to help, really. That the person you helped would have the right to say "oh, well in that case, do you mind going out for milk too?"
I dunno - I think the helper in this situation would be perfectly within their rights to reach for the skillet at this point.
One that I only found out about a few years ago is 'Just deserts', which people always spell as 'just desserts' because - I don't know - they assume it's got something with getting pudding because you've been good or some shit, when actually it's derived from the word 'deserve'.
-------------------- Now that you've called me by name? Posts: 2007
| IP: Logged
posted
An ex of mine was convinced that 'no rest for the wicked' was actually 'no rest for the wicket' as, you know, wicket keepers are the hardest working cricket players.
-------------------- If Chuck Norris is late, time better slow the fuck down Posts: 2740
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by ben: "Cheap at half the price" - this phrase fucking vexes me. It's either a statement of the utterly obvious - ie. most things are 'cheap' at half price - or it's actually meant to say "that would (still) be cheap at twice the price" and has somehow been muddled up over the years, to the point where people parrot something that's technically meaningless.
In a similar vain, I can't abide the American usage of "I could care less" in place of "I couldn't care less" (i.e. I care so little about that, that it's impossible for me to care about it any less than I already do ). Sadly this seems to have made its way across the Atlantic.
Some have said this is meant sarcastically, but by my reckoning that would be spoken with the intonation on the word I, whereas those crazy yanks seem to emphasise the word care. It makes people sound stupid but, hell, they could probably care less.
Posts: 14015
| IP: Logged
posted
I didn't know the "just deserts" one. I've always pointed and laughed when people misspell "desserts" in that one. I feel such a (gooseberry) fool now.
Posts: 8467
| IP: Logged
posted
Tangent - is The Brothers Karamazov worth reading? It's always held up as some kind of bastion of intellectualism and I wondered if it was as boring as that suggests.
Hey, what's a bastion?
*googles*
What's the verb form of *to look something up on wikipedia*? We need to invent one.
posted
Will Smith attempted to do this with his track Wild West - but the best he could come up with was 'Wiki wiki wah wah'.
Brothers Karamazov is, IMO, one of the better big russian novels, because it doesn't bang on and on and on about farming for 800 pages!
But er, yes, the answer is, it's a pretty good read, full of self doubt, loathing, sweaty criminality, questions about god and the devil. I really liked it.
If you can't be bother to read it or wait for the abridged didalo version that will probably be released some time soon - then apparently there is a film of it with WIlliam Shatner and Yul Brenner somewhere out there.
-------------------- If Chuck Norris is late, time better slow the fuck down Posts: 2740
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by wonderstarr: The phrase "it was the least I could do" remains a bit troublesome for me... because it is, of course, admitting you did the minimum to help.
Yes, but it's good old British modesty isn't it. "Thank you so much for cleaning the carpets, washing the bathroom, performing a triple bypass on my uncle, saving our family from bankruptcy and discovering a sustainable source of clean fuel." "Oh - oh that? It was nothing. It was nthe least I could do."
It's only an 'admission' if - say - your partner spent all Sunday slaving over dinner, while you played Nintendo, wanked, and then eventually put a spoon or something on the table and they looked at you and rolled their eyes and went "Thanks so much for putting the spoon on the table." If you then turned round and said "It was the least I could do", then you'll probably get smashed in the face with a piping hot skillet.
Isn't that what the phrase is a little bit about, though? Surely "It was the least I could do" is shorthand for a longer phrase or broader context along the lines of "...considering you'd already fellated the cat to the brink of orgasm / ...given that the last four times I phoned mum were all to ask for money / ...without appearing to be completely taking the piss and using you like an inefficient fleshy bootscraper".
I think the phrase is more to acknowledge some kind of uneven reciprocity than simply being a false modesty - though it could, of course, be abused in that way.
Posts: 8657
| IP: Logged
posted
Also: has anyone else noticed how "sorry" seems to have become the principal unit of exchange between an English person encountering any other English person?
Person treading on foot: "Sorry." Person having foot trodden on: "Sorry."
posted
Crime & Punishment is a bit skinnier, but also a good intellekchull conquest.
I'm reading The Golden Notebook. It's a bit meh, but worthy I suppose.
I've heard from two independent sources that the Russian word for station (can't insert the Cyrillic, which none of you can read anyway) originated because Vauxhall was the first station the Rusky engineers were shown when they were sent over by the Tsar to bring back the Industrial Revolution.
-------------------- What I object to is the colour of some of these wheelie bins and where they are left, in some areas outside all week in the front garden. Posts: 4941
| IP: Logged
posted
Hey VP - I just got the prospectus for the OU short courses through - there's a pretty interesting one about listening to music that has caught my eye. Thanks again.
Ben - I try so hard not to do that - even tried using 'excuse me' instead of 'sorry' but almost everything else sounds aggressive or something - perhaps English people aren't very good at assertiveness?
-------------------- If Chuck Norris is late, time better slow the fuck down Posts: 2740
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: I've heard from two independent sources that the Russian word for station (can't insert the Cyrillic, which none of you can read anyway) originated because Vauxhall was the first station the Rusky engineers were shown when they were sent over by the Tsar to bring back the Industrial Revolution.
I think I read somewhere that, although the Russian word for railway station sounds like "Vauxhall", it's actually more likely to come from an origin to do with "folk hall"... some kind of peoples' gathering area of old. But that sounds a bit vague really so probably safe to stick with the Vauxhall story for the time being.
There was a discussion/moan about evolving language on the radio yesterday, though I only heard a bit of it. But one thing they were complaining about was people starting sentences with "Basically, blah blah blah..." Which I do a lot, sorry.
"At the end of the day" has seriously got out of hand though. People will quite happily say, "At the end of the day, breakfast is my favourite meal" or "At the end of the day, nothing beats a beautiful sunrise." I don't think I say that phrase. Yet. Maybe at the end of the day I will.
Posts: 8467
| IP: Logged
posted
Literally is another one - I was quite literally dead on my feet, for example - I blame bad sports commentary - he literally has an engine in his feet (something I head once). End of the day for me is up there with to cut a long story short - something people only say after boring you for three hours but have only just started to notice the glaze in your eyes, you yawns and the fact that you've gnawed your own arm off.
-------------------- If Chuck Norris is late, time better slow the fuck down Posts: 2740
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by MiscellaneousFiles: I can't abide the American usage of "I could care less" in place of "I couldn't care less" (i.e. I care so little about that, that it's impossible for me to care about it any less than I already do ).
Oh good, this really winds me up too. Everytime I hear someone say this I just want to scream "Oh for fucks sake, if you could care less, then you obviously care about it a bit at least, so what you've just said makes no sense, you ignorant twat". It's reassuring to know I'm not the only one.
Posts: 710
| IP: Logged
Apparently, in days of yore cannonballs would be stored on a ship's deck in a pile, held in place by a brass disc, called a monkey, attached to the deck. In very cold weather the brass disc would shrink, causing the pile of balls to fall over. Why the balls didn't shrink also I don't know. Maybe iron shrinks less than brass.
Posts: 4537
| IP: Logged
posted
What's your source for that? Call my Bluff? It's complete bullshit. Only a maniac would stack cannonballs on a ship like that - they'd all roll off as soon as you hit choppy water. And they were stored in a 'shot garland'. 'Brass Monkey'. Jesus Christ.
-------------------- Now that you've called me by name? Posts: 2007
| IP: Logged
posted
There are so many great phrases that come from navel termanology - not that any spring to mind - if any one every asks where such and such a saying comes from, you're always safe to bet that it's from the land of rum, sodomy and the lash.
Someone asked Mrs the Ball about what 'navel-gazing' meant at work the other day - I said she should have made up a fantastic tale of Queen Elizabeth looking out at her fleet, lost in thought, just before they beat the spanish amada
I can't wait to move to america and make shit up - to date my two best ones so far were 1) telling someone that it's better to by a canadian fax machine as it was bilingual and 2) telling my father in law, when asked where the advocados that you buy in england come from, that in Holland they have huge green houses specifically for advocados. Sometimes saying 'I don't know' never seems enough.
-------------------- If Chuck Norris is late, time better slow the fuck down Posts: 2740
| IP: Logged
posted
We took a guided tour round HMS Victory in (I think?) Portsmouth once. The guide spent the whole tour revealing origins of phrases like the brass monkey one (I imagine "shake a leg" was in there somewhere too), and also debunking others. It was very entertaining, but unfortunately I can't remember whether brass monkey was true or myth. I suppose a little Wikipaeding is required here. Then at least we'll know what the last person to update the wiki thought was correct.
Posts: 8467
| IP: Logged
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Presumably a squelch of "sharp as a new pin" and "on the button"?? Who knows.
Printer-friendly view of this topic