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» TMO Talk » The Dead » Boys and Girls (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Boys and Girls
kovacs

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quote:
Originally posted by herbs:
Feeling in charge of fertility - having the power to produce a new person

I am slightly baffled by all the people citing women's power to give birth as a great plus-point of femaleness. Is it really, do you think, a power of much greater magnitude than the man's role in fertility? Don't men have the power to produce a new person to a similar extent, and isn't it the case that women alone don't actually have that power, any more than men do with surrogacy and IVF?

I'm not pretending that carrying and giving birth to a child is the same as fertilising its egg, or that they are on an equivalent level. I'm sure the former gives you a different relationship with the child before and after birth.

But in terms of the remarkable ability to produce a human being from something in yourself, I would have thought men and women were technically equal.

quote:

Easy friendships based on a common interest, and less paranoia about misplaced comments, sideways looks at one's second pudding, etc

I agree with this, though. I do feel that relationships with and between women are barbed-wire tightropes across minefields. When I have fallen out with a close male friend it can be very easily patched up, sometimes without even saying anything -- perhaps a sheepish smile, a playful touching of boots. With women, you can think you've made up and yet be unnervingly aware that their friendliness has a sly, overly-bright fakiness to it from then on.

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member #28


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Bob
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They are gay.

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and the porpoise was waving "goodbye goodbye"

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LowLevel
He's just a sweet transvestite !
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quote:
Originally posted by Amy:
[QBT-shirts never look as nice on women as they do on men..[/QB]

Erm... Yes... Yes they do... They're lumpier and everything

[Male: like]

  • I like the way people believe what I say.. The way my opinion has extra worth because I have testicles.
  • Being able to solve problems by breaking them down into small, bijou, problemettes and not getting swamped by the 'big scary stuff'
  • Having the option of 'winning by physicality'

[Male : Dislike]

  • Clothing choices, I mean, I wear kilts quite a lot.. but once.. just once.. maybe the black, backless sequin number with some nice strappy sandals.. Hey, I'm going to see Rocky Horror in October so you never know
  • Being assumed to have no feelings, not letting the hurt show, being 'strong'
  • Bollocks, I mean, they might be comforting to fiddle about with while you're sitting on the sofa, in your dressing gown, on a Sunday morning, watching the Doctor When Omnibus on UK Gold.. but you sit down quickly in tight jeans and one disappears in between your thighs just as you bring your legs together. You women would never whinge about the pain of chilbirth again.

[Female : Like]

  • Feeling safe, walking with my 'Man' knowing that if something's going to have to be pretty big (or pretty accurate) to get past him and hurt me
  • Calmness, not seeing red at every available opportunity
  • sorry..Breasts.. I mean.. I'd never leave the house.. and if they came with a matching furry front bottom... DAMN!

[Female : Dislike]

  • People talking to my breasts, fantastic though they would be - they're mine, stop staring at them
  • Being uncomfortable to look good. I mean Jimmy Choos are all very well and good - but I'm not having my little toe cut off to make them fit properly for anyone
  • Being generally treated as second class because there's always a 'shouldn't you be' undercurrent...

    'That's an interesting idea' = Shouldn't you be at home doing the dishes?
    'Really? I would never had thought of that' = Shouldn't you be having babies rather than wasting my time with your trivial gibbering?
    'That's a nice top' = Shouldn't you be bouncing up and down on the end of my knob by now.. or are you frigid?



--------------------
If sir requires spall, may I suggest the .90 calibre depleted uranium ?

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Astromariner
Going the right way for a smacked bottom
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Good lord.
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ben

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Three men-likes

If I wanted to I could go hitch-hiking again.
Ability to walk down most streets semi-invisible to those who I have no wish to be involved with.
Interacting with women as a man (eg: flirting).


Three men-hates

Aside from occasionally feeling disgusted with other men for doing the sort of stuff only men would/could do - none really. Being a bloke is pretty fucking sweet really - I think it's striking how many of the "downsides" mentioned above are either piffling or bogus.


Three women-likes

Unforced, spontaneous interest in the dynamics of human relationships.
Minute ability to recall conversation/arguments.
Would probably be a better dancer, having (acceptably) spent much of my youth learning moves of friends in our bedrooms.


Three women-hates

Being exposed to the full force of:

  • Male lust/resentment/hate
  • Sisterly treachery and spite
  • Societal double standards

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herbs

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quote:
Originally posted by kovacs:
Is it really, do you think, a power of much greater magnitude than the man's role in fertility? Don't men have the power to produce a new person to a similar extent, and isn't it the case that women alone don't actually have that power, any more than men do with surrogacy and IVF?

I spose I was expanding on what Darryn said, really. If I wanted to have a child, I could do so by going and getting myself impregnated. The 'father' need know nothing about it, nor have any knowledge or anything to do with the resulting offspring. And in relationships, women hold the contraception cards.

Then once conceived, the man's role is over. Thank you... bye. I think spending nine months with your blood supply running through and supporting another being is probably a smidge more involved that leaving a sample at a sperm donor.

This is glib, sorry, but I'm knackered.


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discodamage
Again with the bagels ?
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quote:
Originally posted by LowLevel:
[Male: like]
[list]
  • I like the way people believe what I say.. The way my opinion has extra worth because I have testicles.

  • yes, id like that too, who wouldnt. can i swap the thing about 'untangling wires' for 'my opinion having extra intrinsic worth', please?

    --------------------
    EXETER- movement of Jah people.


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    kovacs

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    Why is it that men often seem to think they would sit indoors playing with their breasts, if they became a woman? Do any women do this when they first develop a "bust"?

    I think if I became Vogon Poetess for a week, as she requests -- I would say Bernie but I have no idea about your life or appearance, Bernie, whereas I have some small sense of what being VP would involve -- I would in all honesty not go out of the house for hours because I'd want to be so sure I hadn't done something stupid with my appearance, or wasn't walking in a manly way, or had some other embarrassing mannerism (mm, see what I did) or femme faux pas that women, if not fellows, would immediately spot and laugh at.

    However, I would get to wear VP's "princess" skirt.

    --------------------
    member #28


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    Astromariner
    Going the right way for a smacked bottom
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    quote:
    Originally posted by LowLevel:
    [Female : Like]
    • Feeling safe, walking with my 'Man' knowing that if something's going to have to be pretty big (or pretty accurate) to get past him and hurt me

    lol. If some psychotic swedge-merchant came up to me and my 'Man', I think we'd both tacitly acknowledge that our best chance would lie with me kneeing said attacker in the nads and then us both running like fuck.


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    Bob
    TMO Member
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    quote:
    Originally posted by kovacs:
    Why is it that men often seem to think they would sit indoors playing with their breasts, if they became a woman? Do any women do this when they first develop a "bust"?


    Most men seem to be fascinated with them. Hence playing with them would seem obvious, as they can then find out what it feels like. However I'ld like to see the look of surprise when their cackhanded attempts at "tuning in radio 4" don't actually do anything that "great".

    --------------------
    and the porpoise was waving "goodbye goodbye"


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    kovacs

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    Breasts are just "fat"; I have enough of "that" already.

    --------------------
    member #28

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    Bob
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    quote:
    Originally posted by kovacs:
    Breasts are just "fat"; I have enough of "that" already.

    not just "fat". attractive fat, due to attachment of "nipple".

    --------------------
    and the porpoise was waving "goodbye goodbye"

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    Ringo

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    I I was a woman I would say "I find it laughable that men feel that, if they were put into a femal body, they would play for hours with their own breasts when most men can only muster about five minutes of fondling, even when they're there in front of them"

    And other woman would actually agree with me.


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    discodamage
    Again with the bagels ?
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    lolololol. high five, ringers.

    --------------------
    EXETER- movement of Jah people.

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    kovacs

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    I have fat with a navel attached and that doesn't make it attractive to play with.

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    member #28

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    Bob
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    Why does your orange have fat attached to it?
    Is it so it can swim the Atlantic?

    --------------------
    and the porpoise was waving "goodbye goodbye"

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    kovacs

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    quote:
    Originally posted by Bob:

    Is it so it can swim the Atlantic?


    What do you call a man in the Atlantic with no arms or legs.

    --------------------
    member #28


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    Bob
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    Death by inhalation of water?

    --------------------
    and the porpoise was waving "goodbye goodbye"

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    kovacs

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    stay on topic...stay on topic...

    --------------------
    member #28


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    Bob
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    ( I should have stayed at home and got those power convertors)

    --------------------
    and the porpoise was waving "goodbye goodbye"

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    Ringo

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    quote:
    Originally posted by discodamage:
    lolololol. high five, ringers.

    back atcha sista


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    New Way Of Decay

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    quote:
    Originally posted by kovacs:
    Breasts are just "fat"; I have enough of "that" already.

    You'll be telling us vaginas are just flaps of flesh soon.

    Its healthy to be midly interested in breasts. Just not a great deal after the age of 12.

    --------------------
    BUY A TICKET AND WATCH SOME METAL


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    AgeingGrace
    Should know better.
    Doesn't.
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    quote:
    Originally posted by kovacs:
    Why is it that men often seem to think they would sit indoors playing with their breasts, if they became a woman? Do any women do this when they first develop a "bust"?

    Oh gosh, yes! Actually, we do more of it later in life. "They" are a bit intimidating when they first appear. But we soon learn how enjoyable they are

    I speak, of course, from my own experience and that of my friends. Can't say all women do it.

    Men play with their balls much more, though. I mean, they do it in public!

    I like being a woman ..... for the enhanced ability to take a long view; the facility to do several things at once; "emotional intelligence". Some men have these characteristics, but most women do.

    I'd prefer being a man ..... to be stronger; to have fewer expectations of relationships; for the social advantages (I think) men enjoy.

    I'd rather be less judged by appearances - as men are - but I'd rather have breasts than testicles!

    --------------------
    b-but what does it mean?


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    kovacs

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    quote:
    Originally posted by AgeingGrace:
    I like being a woman ..... the facility to do several things at once

    I would suggest that any man who uses the internet is used to doing lots of things at once. Surely it's the norm to have loads of windows up.

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    member #28


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    Modge
    Too cool to post
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    quote:
    Originally posted by kovacs:
    I would suggest that any man who uses the internet is used to doing lots of things at once. Surely it's the norm to have loads of windows up.

    err, that is still only doing one thing - having cyber sex with 5 msn chate girls is the same (I imagine) as having cyber sex with 1.

    It is a common (mis)perception(?) that women have the ability to multi-task well. I'm sure some science people proved it somehow, isn't it something to do with using different parts of the brain?

    My multi-tasking abilities can extend to all manner of things except, it seems, retention of relevant scientific knowledge.


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    kovacs

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    quote:
    Originally posted by Modge:
    err, that is still only doing one thing - having cyber sex with 5 msn chate girls is the same (I imagine) as having cyber sex with 1.


    You are showing your ignorance, because women all like different things in "bed". You can't just type the same stuff to all of them! pmsl @ u

    --------------------
    member #28


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    AgeingGrace
    Should know better.
    Doesn't.
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Modge:
    My multi-tasking abilities can extend to all manner of things except, it seems, retention of relevant scientific knowledge.



    --------------------
    b-but what does it mean?

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    LowLevel
    He's just a sweet transvestite !
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Astromariner:
    Good lord.

    At which part?

    --------------------
    If sir requires spall, may I suggest the .90 calibre depleted uranium ?


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    Bernie
    TMO Member
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Boy Racer:

    ... childcare provision and attitudes towards it within our society, are based around the idea that women do it. Of course not every woman has the option to stay at home, or chooses not to take it. That is their right also.
    I simply feel men should have this option, should they so desire, or that responsiblities should be more equally shared, and that society should be more flexable towards this being the case. I think this will happen as more women start earning more than their partners.


    Where is 'society' inflexible in this respect? Men have already got the choice - There is no law against dividing childcare equally between parents or against fathers doing the bigger part, or all of it.

    If this is what you want to happen, then you have to make it happen. 'Society' won't come and knock on your door one morning and tell you it's OK for you to be the primary carer for your kids - it's a matter of personal choice. I know that it's often a matter of economic choice, but the choice remains, all the same.

    --------------------
    She had a pretty gift for quotation, which is a serviceable substitute for wit.


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    Boy Racer
    This man has no twinkie !
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    quote:
    Originally posted by discodamage:
    the reason i was laughing was the running around dancing and making bread thing- it just doesnt sound all that realistic to me. thats all. you can take your pompous hat off now.

    Yes, well, that was a snap shot of the sort of thing my Mum used to do with my sister and I when she took time out from her career (at the expense of her pension) to spend raising us during our formative years, so from my experience that was fairly realistic.

    It's also what my poor kids can expect to have inflicted on them by their father, should I ever get round to having any.
    And of course I left out the various points she had to shake me upside down in order in expel whatever small object I'd attempted to swallow, or the general horror it must have been raising a child whose idea of fun consisted of bouncing off things and landing on his head. Or sewing lentils through the landing floorboards so we had beansproats popping up, or painting live snail's shells with enamel paints and racing them round the bathroom.
    Aren't kids grand.

    --------------------
    Some people stand in the darkness, afraid to step into the light...


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    Boy Racer
    This man has no twinkie !
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Bernie:
    Where is 'society' inflexible in this respect? Men have already got the choice - There is no law against dividing childcare equally between parents or against fathers doing the bigger part, or all of it.

    If this is what you want to happen, then you have to make it happen. 'Society' won't come and knock on your door one morning and tell you it's OK for you to be the primary carer for your kids - it's a matter of personal choice. I know that it's often a matter of economic choice, but the choice remains, all the same.


    Society is not made simply of laws but also of attitudes. Where is there inequity in society's treatment of the division of child care? Now let me see, oh that'd be maternity leave as opposed to paternity leave. Several months as opposed to what a couple of weeks. For starters.
    And before you get started I'm not disputing the needs of a woman for physical recuperation following carrying and giving birth to a child either.
    And yes some men can choose to have more to do with the raising of their children (and not just in their formative years), the increase in people working from home can only help this. But I think it's fair to say that whilst some men have the option the vast majority do not, and certainly not to the same extent as women where that right is assumed as an option, as opposed to being something that would have to be pursued as an option.
    I also think, and people are free to argue with me on this one, that our society still assumes / suggests that women are naturally better / more suited to child care than men.

    [ 01 July 2003: Message edited by: Boy Racer ]

    --------------------
    Some people stand in the darkness, afraid to step into the light...


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    Bernie
    TMO Member
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    But that was my real point - other people's 'attitudes' and 'assumptions' shouldn't stop you doing what you really want. So what if your mates take the piss or if a few eyebrows are raised?

    I take the point about maternity leave, but read your post to mean that you wanted to do the job over the long term, not just the first few months.

    [ 01 July 2003: Message edited by: Bernie ]

    --------------------
    She had a pretty gift for quotation, which is a serviceable substitute for wit.


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    LowLevel
    He's just a sweet transvestite !
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Ringo:
    five minutes of fondling, even when they're there in front of them

    Ah, but, Y'see, In this case; You'd not only be knocking out a tune on the old funbag accordian.

    But you'd be getting the benefit of it yourself. A plan with no minus points if you will.

    It'd be like having a wank without having to wash your hands.. or the cat.. afterwards..

    --------------------
    If sir requires spall, may I suggest the .90 calibre depleted uranium ?


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    London

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    It's better if someone else does it. Besides, it's quite tricky to suck one's own nipples. (Though it can be done.)
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    AgeingGrace
    Should know better.
    Doesn't.
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Boy Racer:
    And yes some men can choose to have more to do with the raising of their children (and not just in their formative years), the increase in people working from home can only help this. But I think it's fair to say that whilst some men have the option the vast majority do not, and certainly not to the same extent as women

    Glad we're free to dispute this ... thanks, very kind of you!

    I can't see there's any social pressure these days on couples who choose to reverse the traditional roles.

    The pressures, I think, are financial.

    Whilst some couples have the option, the majority do not. Most couples in the UK need both of their salaries to keep a home & family going.

    Where the woman earns more than the man - and this is becoming far more common amongst high-earning couples, where one partner "downshifts" - it becomes logical for the man to take on the greater share of home & child care.

    Of course, it is still true that the majority of men earn much more than the majority of women. So it's financially logical for the man to stay in his full-time work.

    I think you will have your true equality of opportunity on the home front, the very instant women get the true equality of pay.

    Cheers,
    AG

    --------------------
    b-but what does it mean?


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