I realise my graphic squeamishness sounds like a particularly coy Victorian spinster governess blushing furiously when it's mentioned that Lady Fotheringham has retired to the country for her confinement, but as someone who's cleaned out cowsheds knee-deep in compacted shit and worked as a housekeeper, I am certainly used to getting my hands dirty. However, there was usually some kind of remuneration involved, or as in the slightly odd comparison with teenage cidervomiting you cited, you get the pleasure of intoxication beforehand. With babies I simply do not find them interesting enough to make it a fair exchange.
I also find your harkening to the joys of childhood a slightly strange reason for liking littl'uns. I certainly don't feel the need to be around small kids to recall the wikkid fun I had making dens, climbing trees, playing Manhunt, rollerskating, engaging in RL re-enactments of the Lost Valley of the Dinosaurs board game etc etc. It's not like these great memories are going to be taken away from me if I don't reproduce.
Like I said, I find older children amusing and refreshingly honest. It's the clucking over the boring bawling newborns that baffles me. Bamba has described the attitude of others very well, (reactions range from patronising to suspicious via "look here are some pics of my kids!!! I bet you've changed your mind now!!!") but it's magnified if you're female, and you're somehow even more sinister and deviant, a sicko combo of lezzer and paedo or something.
I don't begrudge others their fecund joy, fair play to em, I'm just not interested in hearing about it, thanks.
-------------------- What I object to is the colour of some of these wheelie bins and where they are left, in some areas outside all week in the front garden. Posts: 4941
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poetess: I also find your harkening to the joys of childhood a slightly strange reason for liking littl'uns. I certainly don't feel the need to be around small kids to recall the wikkid fun I had making dens, climbing trees, playing Manhunt, rollerskating, engaging in RL re-enactments of the Lost Valley of the Dinosaurs board game etc etc. It's not like these great memories are going to be taken away from me if I don't reproduce.
That wasn't really what I was trying to say. I was just countering the suggestion that anklebiters are intrinsically dull or inscrutable or alien.
To be sure, using one's kids as madeleines to jump-start a succession of Proustian reveries would be terrifying and grotesque.
Posts: 8657
| IP: Logged
posted
I can understand anyone not wanting kids, some people simply are just not cut out for it.
It's saddening though, not that some people don't want kids but that on the whole I think those that make the choice not to procreate are mainly intelligent, well rounded people who weigh up the pros and cons of babies and decide not to. One would assume that if these ‘normal’ people did breed that the offspring would also be reasonably intelligent and well rounded.
The ‘so called’ underclass, the pikeys, the chavs or whatever term we are referring to them as these days start spawning pretty much as soon as puberty hits. By the time they are 22 or 23 they’ve squeaked out three of four mongrel litters for every one normal, middle class child born.
Now I’m not trying to sound like a snob, I’m sure it’s coming across that way but I’m not advocating mass sterilization for the underclass/pikeys/chavs/whatever or saying that they don’t have a right to reproduce but I am worried about where it will lead. In these high rise spawning grounds the education system is stretched to breaking point, these kids can’t get a proper education being dragged up in places like this, so they end up stuck forever in a loop of non education, dead end job, no money, need a council house, start squeezing out the sprogs at sixteen for all eternity while those who live in the more privileged areas with good schools are having fewer and fewer children. I don’t really know where I’m going with this now….
Children are a choice, you can choose NOT to, but I don’t think that so many should be allowed to be born for either personal gain (i.e.: Council flat) or out of sheer stupidity and ignorance regarding birth control.
Otherwise we’re going to be overrun by an uneducated, emotionally stunted, poverty stricken population within a few years.
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: At least that's what his mum said
She has seven children. I wonder if they're evenly spaced, so as to ensure Payne¹ a steady supply of teenage cock.
¹ To clarify: I'm referring to the incest-mum, not uber trick, who I'm sure can get all the teenage cock she wants without resorting to her own gene pool.Posts: 14015
| IP: Logged
posted
And even if I wanted to, I couldn't. Refer to my own gene pool that is. You see unless London, myself or the other sister reproduce this particular strain of the Payne's will die out. And if we were all traditional and proper and married and stuff they wouldn't even have the Payne surname. It's a sad state of affairs.
Actually, this thread is depressing me. I have a hard enough time finding men I want to date let alone father my children.
I wouldn't worry about the childe h8r's, its just another form of natural selection.
quote:Originally posted by New Way Of Decay: Things can't be simple when the prerequisites are complex.
Ooh. Can you mail me?
Can anyone tell me when it was the Mikee started posting in riddles? I've only recently noticed it but little that he says these days actually makes sense.
Posts: 3502
| IP: Logged
Louche
Carved TMO on her clit just to make you feel bad
posted
Jesus fuck, Darryn, as bleak world views go, that's a fairly fucking bleak world view. Even more bleak than the one I cultivate. Obviously, in a number of cases kids born in poverty don't get round to getting out of poverty and kids born into the middle classes tend to get sent out to university and good tax-paying jobs. But not universally. And there's no reason to assume that we're all going to go to hell in a small handcart if poverty-line people procreate more than the middle classes. Anyway, middle class or otherwise, the next generation is going to be dead from syphilis and gonorrhea by the time they're 32 anyway....
Posts: 5776
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Darryn.R: In these high rise spawning grounds the education system is stretched to breaking point, these kids can’t get a proper education being dragged up in places like this, so they end up stuck forever in a loop of non education, dead end job, no money, need a council house, start squeezing out the sprogs at sixteen for all eternity while those who live in the more privileged areas with good schools are having fewer and fewer children. I don’t really know where I’m going with this now….
These were pretty current concerns around the time when industrialisation was reaching a sort of critical mass in the late 19th century. The general thrust of the response was to invest in education, public health and civic infrastructure -- I think that sort of programme will always be the best solution.
That said, you're indulging in tabloid stereotypes that supposedly 'educated' people ought to challenge rather than simply accept and perpetuate.
Posts: 8657
| IP: Logged
posted
I don't think that Darryn's worldview is all that bleak! There was something on R4 about this very phenomenon; fundamentally the birth rate amongst the "better-educated" strata of society has already fallen to a level where these strata are not replenishing themselves, whereas the opposite is true for the "less-well educated".
Reasons for the birth-rate drop?
1. Big growth in people putting off childbirth until much later in life. 2. Increasing tendency toward no children at all (either by choice or through the rapidly increasing number of single people). 3. Increased tendency to have only one child.
-------------------- i wrote for luck - they sent me you Posts: 3505
| IP: Logged
Louche
Carved TMO on her clit just to make you feel bad
posted
Stevie, all you're saying is that Radio 4 backed up what Darryn said. This doesn't make it any less bleak.
quote:In these high rise spawning grounds the education system is stretched to breaking point, these kids can’t get a proper education being dragged up in places like this, so they end up stuck forever in a loop of non education, dead end job, no money, need a council house, start squeezing out the sprogs at sixteen for all eternity
I find the idea that a whole class or section of society is going to be living well below the poverty line and reproducing in a self-perpetuating loop without chance or opportunity to break out very bleak. Taking it to it's ultimate conclusion is bleak. If you assume, as Darryn was doing, that there will be a huge rise in the number of uneducated, unemployed people and a massive decrease in the number of qualified professions, such as teachers, doctors and a similar decrease in the number of tax paying ordinary job doing people then you're left with a country where the vast majority live in horrendous poverty without any services and a small minority works it's arse off in appalling conditions to attempt to alleviate that poverty. That's pretty bleak.
quote:Originally posted by ben: To have a pint-sized Prospero dashing, crawling, climbing and bawling about the place would, I think, be a pretty fine thing - and that's way before we get to the love stuff and the learning stuff and the teaching and caring and bollocking stuff which I wouldn't feel qualified to write about without having been there myself.
I really, honestly can't wait - and I'm surprised and a bit baffled to be in such a minority.
At last - something we can wholeheartedly agree on, Ben. I was actually going to write something similar yesterday evening, but had this nagging feeling that all of the kinderh8ers would have turned on me. Or something.
Anyway, good stuff.
-------------------- "You ate the baby Jesus and his mother Mary!" "I thought they were animal cookies..." Posts: 4130
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Louche: Stevie, all you're saying is that Radio 4 backed up what Darryn said. This doesn't make it any less bleak.
Yeah, I see what you mean. I've deperately been trying to find a link to the story/broadcast - based on the research/views of (I think) some professor of social anthropology.
I think my point was that his view was not unrealistic, as opposed to merely being pessimistic.
-------------------- i wrote for luck - they sent me you Posts: 3505
| IP: Logged
First get rid of the pakis. Then get rid of the niggers. Then we can start on the chavs. When we have got rid of them we can start on the lower middle class. Then all the middle class from the north. Saw Wales and Scotland off and push them into the sea. Utopia!
Posts: 623
| IP: Logged
posted
Louche, I'm not saying it's going to happen, just that it could happen. If the only people seriously breeding by any relevant number are those stuck in the poverty loop then the poverty loop will increase.
Sinking money into it would probably help, and offering all children regardless of colour, race, creed or financial background the same standard of education and access to the same opportunities is something that we should aspire to. But who will invest this money, where will it come from - Would you pay more tax for these kids to get a better education, would you be willing to be financially accountable for allowing these children a way out of the poverty loop ? Or would you just worry you'd be throwing money down the drain ?
Ben, it's hard for me to maintain a tabloid stereotype really as I don't have access to the tabloids. I can only base what I think on what I read on the BBC and what I see when I come back to the UK (So far as a discussion about the UK goes) and that's how it looked to me the last time I was home. If that's perpetuating a stereotype then I apologize, but it's how it felt in my home town.
But perhaps we should take this elsewhere as it's not really about wanting children anymore and it's turning into another sort of discussion.
Topic Closed
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
, but it's worth doing again..![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic