quote:Originally posted by ralph: At least my crappy country has been able to put a man on the moon. But hey, chocolate's pretty important too. I suppose.
Is there no-where in the known universe that America hasn't bloody interfered with, ralph?
No. But you'll be proud to know that at a town meeting last night, the members of my town voted almost unanimously to impeach Bush and Cheney.
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Votes like this are being held at town meetings all over my country. Obviously nothing will ever come of it, but still.
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quote:Originally posted by vikram: civil disobedience is still disobedience ralphy. the fonz told me that
What civil disobedience? It was a vote. Our democratic right!
Here's a copy of the reolution we voted on:
quote: Resolution to Impeach President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney
WHEREAS, George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney conspired with others to defraud the United States of America by intentionally misleading Congress and the public regarding the threat from Iraq in order to justify a war in violation of Title 18 United States Code, Section 371;and WHEREAS, George W. Bush has admitted to ordering the National Security Agency to conduct electronic surveillance of American civilians without seeking warrants from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review, duly constituted by Congress in 1978, in violation of Title 50 United States Code, Section 1805; and WHEREAS, George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney conspired to commit the torture of prisoners in violation of the "Federal Torture Act" Title 18 United States Code, Section 113C, the UN Torture Convention and the Geneva Convention, which under Article VI of the Constitution are part of the "supreme Law of the Land"; and WHEREAS, George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney acted to strip American citizens of their constitutional rights by ordering indefinite detention without access to legal counsel, without charge and without the opportunity to appear before a civil judicial officer to challenge the detention, based solely on the discretionary designation by the President of a U.S. citizen as an "enemy combatant", all in subversion of law; and WHEREAS, In all of this George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney have acted in a manner contrary to their trust as President and Vice President, subversive of constitutional government to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice, and to the manifest injury of the people of xxxxxxx, Massachusetts and of the United States of America; and WHEREAS, Petitions from the country at large may be presented by the Speaker of the House according to Clause 3 of House Rule XII; BE IT RESOLVED, That George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney, by such conduct, warrant impeachment and trial, and removal from office and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States; BE IT RESOLVED FURTHER by the Town of xxxxxxx, That our senators and representatives in the United States Congress are hereby requested to institute in the Congress of the United States proper proceedings for the investigation of the activities of George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney, to the end that they may be impeached and removed from such office. BE IT RESOLVED FURTHER, That the Clerk of the Town of xxxxxx is hereby instructed to certify to the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives, under the seal of the Town of xxxxxx, a copy of this resolution and its adoption by the Town of xxxxxx, as a petition, and request that this petition be delivered to the Office of the Clerk and entered in the United States Congressional Journal. The copies shall be marked with the word "Petition" at the top of the document and contain the original authorizing signature of the Selectboard Chair.
quote:Originally posted by Benny the Ball: Was it John Locke who said "The greatest freedom a man can know, is the freedom to ask how enslaved he truely is"?
It was either him or Ralph Mouth
It was actually John Riggins, a running back who found fame in the eighties.
John Riggins contemplates the paradox of universal liberty.
[ 07.12.2006, 08:10: Message edited by: Jimmy Big Nuts ]
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quote: In July of 1980 the Redskins, balked at his demand that the club renegotiate his $300,000-a-year contract. The Redskins placed him on the left camp-retired list
Sounds like another commie to me...
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quote:Originally posted by Jimmy Big Nuts: t was actually John Riggins, a running back who found fame in the eighties.
How on Earth did you find John Riggins? As a Philadelphia boy growing up in the late 70's, I always hated Riggins as he was the star running back for the dreaded Washington Redskins. Posts: 7436
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Being fans of both American Football and socio-political theory, my brother and I often used to play games where one of us was John Riggins (the best), and the other would be notorious intellectual hellraiser and running back for the now defunct New Jersey Generals, Herschel Walker (2nd best). The game involved running around the house trying to prevent each other from getting touchdowns, as well as replicating some of the classic locker room debates that the two players had regarding the state of American Democracy.
[ 07.12.2006, 08:27: Message edited by: Jimmy Big Nuts ]
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Think yourself lucky, ralph. Our soccer players in the UK would be incapable of such invigorating, naked debate in the changing rooms...entrenched as they are in the rigid logic trivium favoured in classic medieval universities. It's a crying shame that Wayne Rooney (a professional logician and part time soccer striker) refuses to entertain a broader philosophical range and remains shackled by limiting logical concepts.
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So I am reading Emergency Sex, mostly with my mouth hanging open in disbelief (why didn't I know all this? What am I doing with my life when all this horror just passes me by in my smug little life?), and the stuff about Haiti is getting more and more stacked up and more and more awful, and suddenly I am reading how the Americans are pulling out and its like a blow to the stomach and I have to put the book down. For a while I can only read it in bits because I find it so painful.
This morning on Five Live I am fixing my hair and there are two bods arguing about pulling out of Iraq and I find myself silently screaming at the radio; you can't pull out now. Not now. You can't leave all the people there who came out to stand by us because they thought they might get democracy to be killed. They can't be abandoned now; this damn thing has to be seen through somehow.
ETA Yeh, I know. The syntax is bloody awful, but hey, Im at work. I just wanted to say it to someone. No-one at work cares. I know you lot are a bunch of cynical bastards, but somehow you care. I feel stunned. The book is doing in my head; it's making me think about all the uncomfortable things.
[ 08.12.2006, 05:35: Message edited by: sam ]
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ralph, how does that work in America? It seems conmpletely alien to me that a whole town can impeach a leader. How does that sort of thing come about?
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Sam, I agree - <cynicism aside> the pulling out of iraq debate has been getting much coverage in the economist of late, and it just seems such a mess but we still (and by us, Ralph, I mean US and UK) owe it to the nation to ensure that we don't just abandon it - much as old Europe owes it to Nato to do something more than just pout about Afghanistan (yeah France, I'm talking to you)</cynism aside>
So what's this book about? Sounds compelling.
Does anyone know the title of the book by the UN general who was in, ummm, can't remember, Timor, maybe, who basically tells how they had no support, hardly any bullets and were sitting just waiting to be attacke?
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